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Is carving on the way out? - Page 5

post #121 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post


Heh I guess that's why our response differ; when I read the beautiful to watch part I think of a highly skilled skier doing high angle carving and making it look effortless, not the average skier lean on their skis.

It looks effortless in that there is no struggle or flailing. What you can't see is the muscles that have to fire powerfully and correctly to pull that off. The flexion extension which provides energy to finish the turn is very tiring. Holding the core and upper body stable with the abs is tough as well. The quads have to support the G-forces. 

 

A day sliding on ice or smearing powder will tire your lower back usually, but a day of carving on firm chalk will leave your whole body fried.

post #122 of 178

anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve.  Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy.  Do that on a slightly steeper hill and you'll build up speed faster than you can say 'hotdog'. 

 

On any slope with reasonable pitch, an incredible amount of energy is required to control your speed, line, and turn shape with carved turns.  There's a lot of dynamic movements that engages the muscles of the whole body.  Even if you're not loading the skis with energy, it's still quite a bit of work to stay balanced throughout the turn.

 

On the contrary, a skidded turn is usually pretty static....there is no muscle effort required to stay balanced.  The only muscle requirement is the outside leg bracing against the force of gravity....but this could easily be mitigated with slower speeds easily achieved through more 'brushing'.  At the end of the day when I'm exhausted, it's skidded turns down the mountain...until I get to the bottom where it's flat and then I can ride the sidecut of the skis without worrying about building up too much speed....but I'd hardly call that carving.

 

btw, as stated above..that video of JF skiing is NOT effortless.  There's a big difference between someone making something look effortless and it actually being effortless.

post #123 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortato View Post

anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve.  Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy.  Do that on a slightly steeper hill and you'll build up speed faster than you can say 'hotdog'. 

 

On any slope with reasonable pitch, an incredible amount of energy is required to control your speed, line, and turn shape with carved turns.  There's a lot of dynamic movements that engages the muscles of the whole body.  Even if you're not loading the skis with energy, it's still quite a bit of work to stay balanced throughout the turn.

 

On the contrary, a skidded turn is usually pretty static....there is no muscle effort required to stay balanced.  The only muscle requirement is the outside leg bracing against the force of gravity....but this could easily be mitigated with slower speeds easily achieved through more 'brushing'.  At the end of the day when I'm exhausted, it's skidded turns down the mountain...until I get to the bottom where it's flat and then I can ride the sidecut of the skis without worrying about building up too much speed....but I'd hardly call that carving.

 

btw, as stated above..that video of JF skiing is NOT effortless.  There's a big difference between someone making something look effortless and it actually being effortless.

Your post is confusing.  First, you say "anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve", implying that it takes far more effort than I apparently realize, then you qualify that with "Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy", agreeing that carving indeed requires little effort.

 

You also state "I can ride the sidecut of the skis without worrying about building up too much speed....but I'd hardly call that carving."  Why not?  If that's not carving, then what is?  The technique is independent of speed.

 

Of course nothing is absolute, but I, like others in this thread, generally find carving to be less strenuous. (see the post about the guys who carve being refreshed at the bottom of a run vs. the skidders who are hurting, even after taking a break on the run).  Referring to the vid I posted, if I were to ski that using parallel, my legs would be fried PDQ.  Maybe my muscles are better suited to the stresses of carving than parallel.  YMMV

post #124 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakout12 View Post

Your post is confusing.  First, you say "anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve", implying that it takes far more effort than I apparently realize, then you qualify that with "Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy", agreeing that carving indeed requires little effort.

 

You also state "I can ride the sidecut of the skis without worrying about building up too much speed....but I'd hardly call that carving."  Why not?  If that's not carving, then what is?  The technique is independent of speed.

 

Of course nothing is absolute, but I, like others in this thread, generally find carving to be less strenuous. (see the post about the guys who carve being refreshed at the bottom of a run vs. the skidders who are hurting, even after taking a break on the run).  Referring to the vid I posted, if I were to ski that using parallel, my legs would be fried PDQ.  Maybe my muscles are better suited to the stresses of carving than parallel.  YMMV

I think you can explain that by the fact that guys who carve know how to ski well and that is what makes their skiing, if they so choose, relaxing and restful.  Skeletal Stacking, good posture, strong stance, separation and angulation, great technique.....all factors for reducing the hurt in every type of turn.

post #125 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakout12 View Post

Check the vid that I posted - effortless carving. Awesomecool.gif   Again, the vast majority of recreational skiers (and therefore the vast majority of skiers) aren't hard chargers.

 

Guys, I'm not arguing that carving can't be a workout, I'm arguing that most skiers don't do that.  If someone is getting a lesson in carving, it's most likely for recreational purposes, not competitive.  Don't be pedantic.

I have a hunch that most recreational skiers like me secretly or not so secretly love to be able to ski like JF Beaulieu. We just can't do it.

post #126 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakout12 View Post

Your post is confusing.  First, you say "anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve", implying that it takes far more effort than I apparently realize, then you qualify that with "Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy", agreeing that carving indeed requires little effort.

 

You also state "I can ride the sidecut of the skis without worrying about building up too much speed....but I'd hardly call that carving."  Why not?  If that's not carving, then what is?  The technique is independent of speed.

 

PSIA tries to differentiate by calling the, uh, 'hard' version of carving "dynamic".  Of course, nailing down exactly what they mean by that can be an exercise in itself...

 

Making arc-to-arc turns with a short turn radius relative to the speed you're going and precisely controlling the shape of those turns is quite difficult.  DH racers can pull 2-3 Gs, which is like leg pressing two or three times your body weight on every turn.  Aside from the physical effort, it takes a lot of coordinated body and leg movements to get the skis to go where you want in a hurry.  (I sure can't do this, at least consistently and in hard terrain or at those speeds.)

 

Just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski requires very little energy input from the skier, but is not feasible on steep slopes (you'll go way, way too fast) or when there are obstacles you have to avoid (you don't have enough control over turn shape and can't make very tight turns).  If your definition of "carving" is something like "making linked turns with little or no skidding on an easy slope" then this is "carving", but technique-wise it's very different from actively shaping the turn while not skidding the skis.

post #127 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I think you can explain that by the fact that guys who carve know how to ski well and that is what makes their skiing, if they so choose, relaxing and restful.  Skeletal Stacking, good posture, strong stance, separation and angulation, great technique.....all factors for reducing the hurt in every type of turn.

That's one possible explanation.  I think the more likely explanation, though, is that, on runs where either technique is applicable, carving just requires less effort.  Let's ask hirustler: are your carving friends simply much better skiers, and is that the difference? 

 

It seems like some on here don't want to give an inch and admit that, in some situations, carving is easier.  There's always an excuse, whether it be the skiers' relative abilities in both techniques, or that if you are skiing slowly enough that carving seems easier, then it isn't really carving.  It doesn't surprise me, though.  Forums are full of posters denigrating carving as applied to recreational skiing.

post #128 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

 

PSIA tries to differentiate by calling the, uh, 'hard' version of carving "dynamic".  Of course, nailing down exactly what they mean by that can be an exercise in itself...

 

Making arc-to-arc turns with a short turn radius relative to the speed you're going and precisely controlling the shape of those turns is quite difficult.  DH racers can pull 2-3 Gs, which is like leg pressing two or three times your body weight on every turn.  Aside from the physical effort, it takes a lot of coordinated body and leg movements to get the skis to go where you want in a hurry.  (I sure can't do this, at least consistently and in hard terrain or at those speeds.)

 

Just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski requires very little energy input from the skier, but is not feasible on steep slopes (you'll go way, way too fast) or when there are obstacles you have to avoid (you don't have enough control over turn shape and can't make very tight turns).  If your definition of "carving" is something like "making linked turns with little or no skidding on an easy slope" then this is "carving", but technique-wise it's very different from actively shaping the turn while not skidding the skis.

I see your point, but I think that your first example is an extension of "Just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski".  An advanced technique for sure, but related.

 

If the average skier takes a lesson and asks to learn to carve, are they taught race technique, or "tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski"?

 

I'm glad that you differentiated "dynamic" carving from 'easy' carving.  However, I still think that, to the majority of skiers, the accepted meaning, and the meaning that has jumped to the forefront in the era of shaped skis, is the 'easy' variety.  Maybe we should have small-c 'carving' and capital-c 'Carving'.

post #129 of 178
Quote:
I see your point, but I think that your first example is an extension of "Just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski".  An advanced technique for sure, but related.

 

Given that even "straight" skis have some sidecut, you could call pretty much all skiing 'an extension of just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski'... rolleyes.gif

 

All ski technique is "related".  But the difference between ride-the-sidecut and dynamic parallel isn't just 'do the same thing but faster/more precisely'.  You have to add in knee and hip angulation, independent leg movement, upper body counter/anticipation, control of edging, and more.

 

Quote:
If the average skier takes a lesson and asks to learn to carve, are they taught race technique, or "tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski"?

 

Depends where they are with their skillset.  I've certainly had people do tip-and-ride type drills just to feel what a non-skidded turn is like.  But as a technique in itself it's sort of a dead end.

 

I'd actually argue that a good 'brushed carve' (PSIA calls this "open parallel") with active shaping, flexion/extension, etc. is much closer in terms of technique to a high end dynamic parallel turn than just statically riding the sidecut around.

post #130 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

 

Given that even "straight" skis have some sidecut, you could call pretty much all skiing 'an extension of just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski'... rolleyes.gif

 

All ski technique is "related".  But the difference between ride-the-sidecut and dynamic parallel isn't just 'do the same thing but faster/more precisely'.  You have to add in knee and hip angulation, independent leg movement, upper body counter/anticipation, control of edging, and more.

 

 

Depends where they are with their skillset.  I've certainly had people do tip-and-ride type drills just to feel what a non-skidded turn is like.  But as a technique in itself it's sort of a dead end.

 

I'd actually argue that a good 'brushed carve' (PSIA calls this "open parallel") with active shaping, flexion/extension, etc. is much closer in terms of technique to a high end dynamic parallel turn than just statically riding the sidecut around.

"But as a technique in itself it's sort of a dead end."

 

Agreed.  It's an arrow in the quiver, not the be-all and end-all.  I mentioned earlier that I think it should come after gaining proficiency in the fundamentals.  Skilled versatility is where it's at!

post #131 of 178
not to brag (seriously!), but i can carve dynamically in a very similar fashion to JF...it is in fact a workout!! which is why i dont always ski that way (maybe 1/3 the day in proper snow conditions, how flexible i feel, energy levels, etc....) however, its fun to ski other ways as well. do i "park and ride"? no, i just increase the radius/lessen the turn shape...
stacked park n ride is easy physically...if a skier is content with that, great...its about having fun smile.gif

zenny
post #132 of 178
breakout...i for one wasn't trying to denigrate anyone. recreational carving is a but one arrow in a skiers quiver indeed !!wink.gif dynamic carving, otoh, requires that ones quiver be virtually full.
as an aside, i greatly enjoy teaching people who are ready to "fill their skiing skills lexicon" smile.gif
zenny
post #133 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortato View Post

anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve.  Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy.  Do that on a slightly steeper hill and you'll build up speed faster than you can say 'hotdog'.

 

This. You need big edge angles and the strength/technique to cope with them to carve clean on anything more than a gentle slope. In Ron LeMaster's book he has figures that a good skier carving with 45deg edge angle will pull about 1.4G, the best GS skiers can peak at close to 3G which is miles greater than just letting skis slide sideways one side and then the other.

post #134 of 178

To make high performance carve turns you got to step it up another notch.ski.gif

post #135 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by narc View Post

 

This. You need big edge angles and the strength/technique to cope with them to carve clean on anything more than a gentle slope. In Ron LeMaster's book he has figures that a good skier carving with 45deg edge angle will pull about 1.4G, the best GS skiers can peak at close to 3G which is miles greater than just letting skis slide sideways one side and then the other.

I wonder if there's a way for the average skier to figure out how many G's they pull. If I remember way back from Myth Busters they had these these things called shock watches, I think, but they have them in all sorts of ranges. Basically just a little sticker.

 

EDIT: found em, expensive little buggers! They do have one from .5-20's, and it's resettable, but it looks like they only work with actual impacts.

 

http://www.shockwatch.com/monitoring-devices/impact-sensor/impact-indicators/

post #136 of 178
 
 
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortato View Post

anyone who thinks carving is effortless doesn't really know how to carve.  Sure, if you tip your skis on a gentle slope and ride the sidecut, it doesn't take too much energy.  Do that on a slightly steeper hill and you'll build up speed faster than you can say 'hotdog'. 

 

On any slope with reasonable pitch, an incredible amount of energy is required to control your speed, line, and turn shape with carved turns.  There's a lot of dynamic movements that engages the muscles of the whole body.  Even if you're not loading the skis with energy, it's still quite a bit of work to stay balanced throughout the turn.

 

 

Sorry, but you're doing it wrong. rolleyes.gif

 

I know quite a few skiers who can manage the same turn shape, turn rate, and overall speed down any pitch - all with beautiful carved turns.

 

I didn't want to venture into this train wreck of a thread, but this statement couldn't be left to stand without challenge.

 

 

 
post #137 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by narc View Post

 

This. You need big edge angles and the strength/technique to cope with them to carve clean on anything more than a gentle slope. In Ron LeMaster's book he has figures that a good skier carving with 45deg edge angle will pull about 1.4G, the best GS skiers can peak at close to 3G which is miles greater than just letting skis slide sideways one side and then the other.

I wonder if there's a way for the average skier to figure out how many G's they pull. If I remember way back from Myth Busters they had these these things called shock watches, I think, but they have them in all sorts of ranges. Basically just a little sticker.

 

EDIT: found em, expensive little buggers! They do have one from .5-20's, and it's resettable, but it looks like they only work with actual impacts.

 

http://www.shockwatch.com/monitoring-devices/impact-sensor/impact-indicators/

https://play.google.com/store/search?q=g+force+meter&c=apps    I'll install it and see what kind of numbers come up.

post #138 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

 
 
 

 

 

Sorry, but you're doing it wrong. rolleyes.gif

 

I know quite a few skiers who can manage the same turn shape, turn rate, and overall speed down any pitch - all with beautiful carved turns.

 

I didn't want to venture into this train wreck of a thread, but this statement couldn't be left to stand without challenge.

 

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood my post.  I'm not talking about not being able to carve down a steep pitch....I see great skiers do it all the time.  I'm saying if you try to park and ride down a steep pitch (aka tip skis and just ride sidecut), you'll build up too much speed too quickly because there is no way to control turn shape, rate, etc. 

post #139 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

 
 
 

 

 

Sorry, but you're doing it wrong. rolleyes.gif

 

I know quite a few skiers who can manage the same turn shape, turn rate, and overall speed down any pitch - all with beautiful carved turns.

 

I didn't want to venture into this train wreck of a thread, but this statement couldn't be left to stand without challenge.

 

 

 

   I think majortato may have been referring to "park and ride" as opposed to dynamic carves. As I'm sure you know, as it gets steeper, so do the angles needed...to resist against the pull of centrifugal force. Ever increasing amounts of hip angulation and counter are required as the slope steepens.  Movements of the CoM down the fall line made with alacrity are also strongly advised. Most skiers aren't gonna get them up on edge to 50*. Park and ride on the steeps is a recipe for disaster...

 

    zenny

post #140 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakout12 View Post

I see your point, but I think that your first example is an extension of "Just tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski".  An advanced technique for sure, but related.

 

If the average skier takes a lesson and asks to learn to carve, are they taught race technique, or "tipping and riding the sidecut of the ski"?

 

I'm glad that you differentiated "dynamic" carving from 'easy' carving.  However, I still think that, to the majority of skiers, the accepted meaning, and the meaning that has jumped to the forefront in the era of shaped skis, is the 'easy' variety.  Maybe we should have small-c 'carving' and capital-c 'Carving'.

 

It's not about the 'accepted' meaning of carving...it's the fact that the majority of skiers have a hard time even doing the simple tip ski and ride sidecut style skiing.  To these untrained eyes, this is just a slower version of dynamic carving.  They don't see much of a difference because the skis leave similar looking tracks in the snow.

 

Better skiers will know though...riding the sidecut is an easy intermediate technique that anyone can learn quickly with the correct instruction.  Making dynamically carved turns (not even necessarily railroad track ones) is advanced skiing that takes years to hone and a lifetime to master.

post #141 of 178

   I will say, the fact that there are 5 pages in this thread may lend credence to the idea that carving is NOT on the way out! Though, when taken to it's extreme, carving is WAY outrolleyes.gif.

 

  Far out, man...as in a ski galaxy, far far away...........

Obi-Wan-as-a-Padawan-young-obi-wan-kenobi-23967106-848-1050.jpg

   

 

   Obi wan is my true fav! Dude could carve with the best of 'embiggrin.gif

 

       zenny

post #142 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortato View Post

 

It's not about the 'accepted' meaning of carving...it's the fact that the majority of skiers have a hard time even doing the simple tip ski and ride sidecut style skiing.  To these untrained eyes, this is just a slower version of dynamic carving.  They don't see much of a difference because the skis leave similar looking tracks in the snow.

 

Better skiers will know though...riding the sidecut is an easy intermediate technique that anyone can learn quickly with the correct instruction.  Making dynamically carved turns (not even necessarily railroad track ones) is advanced skiing that takes years to hone and a lifetime to master.


It has everything to do with the meaning, otherwise we can't have this conversation.  My point was, as a recreational technique, it's ridiculously easy, and you agree.  The only thing I said about dynamic carving is that it's not what most people think of when discussing carving, and that Mosie's post was referring to recreational skiers.  For some reason, some posters have pulled the conversation toward dynamic carving. 

 

Perhaps I was too general in my original posts, and others made it clear that there is more than just recreational carving.  So, I made it clear that I understand that, but that was not what I was talking about, nor did I think it was what Mogsie was talking about.  So why do people keep harping on a long-made point about dynamic carving?  My point had nothing to do with dynamic carving, and everything to do with recreational.

 

Another confusing post.  You say that "riding the sidecut is an easy intermediate technique that anyone can learn quickly with the correct instruction", but also "it's the fact that the majority of skiers have a hard time even doing the simple tip ski and ride sidecut style skiing"  Which is it?  Easy or difficult?

 

Again, I propose:

 

Carving - riding the sidecut, as understood by most recreational skiers, and taught in vids such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhyk2ZbrOEM
carving - dynamic carving as understood by racers 

 

Everything I said was in relation to the carving style shown in the video, which is clearly "effortless and graceful", and what most skiers understand to be Carving.  Everything else is extraneous to this conversation.

post #143 of 178
Quote:
Carving - riding the sidecut, as understood by most recreational skiers, and taught in vids such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhyk2ZbrOEM

carving - dynamic carving as understood by racers 

 

Everything I said was in relation to the carving style shown in the video, which is clearly "effortless and graceful", and what most skiers understand to be Carving.  Everything else is extraneous to this conversation.

 

Aside from it being a terrible idea to try to differentiate these based on capitalization... that video is not really showing "riding the sidecut".

 

What I'm talking about is more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_HZfGTunw (demo starts at ~0:35)

 

versus this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsWG9PH4VE (demo starts around ~0:35, then has a nice splitscreen showing less vs. more dynamic)

 

I can't seem to find a really good video of someone doing a park and ride with the sidecut and nothing else.

post #144 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust View Post

I wonder if there's a way for the average skier to figure out how many G's they pull. If I remember way back from Myth Busters they had these these things called shock watches, I think, but they have them in all sorts of ranges. Basically just a little sticker.

 

EDIT: found em, expensive little buggers! They do have one from .5-20's, and it's resettable, but it looks like they only work with actual impacts.

 

http://www.shockwatch.com/monitoring-devices/impact-sensor/impact-indicators/

If you have an i-Phone, there is a ski related application called snowEdge. It shows your speed, lateral G-force and TAI (Turn Acceleration Index, I believe. It gives you an idea of how "clean" and "forceful" your turn is).

post #145 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakout12 View Post


It has everything to do with the meaning, otherwise we can't have this conversation.  My point was, as a recreational technique, it's ridiculously easy, and you agree.  The only thing I said about dynamic carving is that it's not what most people think of when discussing carving, and that Mosie's post was referring to recreational skiers.  For some reason, some posters have pulled the conversation toward dynamic carving. 

 

Perhaps I was too general in my original posts, and others made it clear that there is more than just recreational carving.  So, I made it clear that I understand that, but that was not what I was talking about, nor did I think it was what Mogsie was talking about.  So why do people keep harping on a long-made point about dynamic carving?  My point had nothing to do with dynamic carving, and everything to do with recreational.

 

Another confusing post.  You say that "riding the sidecut is an easy intermediate technique that anyone can learn quickly with the correct instruction", but also "it's the fact that the majority of skiers have a hard time even doing the simple tip ski and ride sidecut style skiing"  Which is it?  Easy or difficult?

 

Again, I propose:

 

Carving - riding the sidecut, as understood by most recreational skiers, and taught in vids such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhyk2ZbrOEM
carving - dynamic carving as understood by racers 

 

Everything I said was in relation to the carving style shown in the video, which is clearly "effortless and graceful", and what most skiers understand to be Carving.  Everything else is extraneous to this conversation.

You know I guess I have to agree with your take overall but unless you have the skill and technique to ski many styles I imagine it is hard  to relate.  

post #146 of 178

OK, recreational carving as an activity. My problem with it is that the practitioners are so involved in themselves (and their sidecut) that they have very poor situational awareness, and once committed to an arc, they will not be dissuaded from finishing it for any reason on earth . Don't practice that drivel on a road or path or across an entire slope. You are not the only skier on the hill, even though you look like the dork-iest and most oblivious.  sorry, rude statement, but that kind of skiing is not polite or considerate of other skiers either. 

post #147 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog View Post

You know I guess I have to agree with your take overall but unless you have the skill and technique to ski many styles I imagine it is hard  to relate.  

 

Thankfully, I have the skill and technique to ski many styles.  Not race level carving, but certainly the dynamic carving as demonstrated in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsWG9PH4VE

 

Or did you mean that others don't have the skill and technique to relate to my argument?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

OK, recreational carving as an activity. My problem with it is that the practitioners are so involved in themselves (and their sidecut) that they have very poor situational awareness, and once committed to an arc, they will not be dissuaded from finishing it for any reason on earth . Don't practice that drivel on a road or path or across an entire slope. You are not the only skier on the hill, even though you look like the dork-iest and most oblivious.  sorry, rude statement, but that kind of skiing is not polite or considerate of other skiers either. 

 

For some skiers, sure.  Thankfully, I have great situational awareness, am hyper-considerate, and ski accordingly.  Not to brag, but I'm an exemplar of a considerate skier.  I agree that oblivious practitioners are rude, annoying and sometimes dangerous.  It's the same with cycling, another of my passions.  I'll be aware of what is going on in a huge area around me, while others don't seem to notice, or care about, what is happening more than a few inches from themselves.

 

As I stated before, I'm like many skiers and use a variety of techniques on each run.  I only carve when I feel like it and there is room to do so, and will break off when the conditions require it, whether it's because the slope becomes too steep, or the presence of other skiers necessitates it.  Sometimes I'll start a blue or black with just two or three carved turns before reverting to parallel when the speed gets too fast.  I can't imagine being a slave to one technique.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

 

Aside from it being a terrible idea to try to differentiate these based on capitalization... that video is not really showing "riding the sidecut".

 

What I'm talking about is more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_HZfGTunw (demo starts at ~0:35)

 

versus this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsWG9PH4VE (demo starts around ~0:35, then has a nice splitscreen showing less vs. more dynamic)

 

I can't seem to find a really good video of someone doing a park and ride with the sidecut and nothing else.

Yes, I can clearly see the difference between the less vs. more dynamic turns, but I still maintain that the vid I posted is a legit example of what most consider carving.  It's certainly not parallel. 

 

Cheers y'all!

post #148 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakout12 View Post


 

 

Another confusing post.  You say that "riding the sidecut is an easy intermediate technique that anyone can learn quickly with the correct instruction", but also "it's the fact that the majority of skiers have a hard time even doing the simple tip ski and ride sidecut style skiing"  Which is it?  Easy or difficult?

 

 

 

With CORRECT INSTRUCTION.  That is the key.  The majority of skiers do not get instruction....or get it from people who don't know how to do it or how to teach it.  They get to a point where they can skid their way down any groomed slope with parallel skis and stop taking lessons or stop trying to improve.  

 

Riding the sidecut of a ski is easy...but easy doesn't mean everyone can do it.  For example, driving a manual transmission vehicle is easy...but the majority of US drivers don't know how to drive one...and the ones that claim its hard when they tried to learn probably learned from someone who sucks at teaching.

post #149 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortato View Post

Riding the sidecut of a ski is easy...but easy doesn't mean everyone can do it.  For example, driving a manual transmission vehicle is easy...but the majority of US drivers don't know how to drive one...and the ones that claim its hard when they tried to learn probably learned from someone who sucks at teaching.

 

majortato, I really related to an earlier post of yours in this thread. Right on the money. Thanks.

 

As far as the manual transmission thing, I think it's a good analogy as far as it goes, but I'd put a different spin on it. I would say that the people who have tried it and don't like it are merely expressing a personal value judgment about the extra attention and coordination it takes on the one hand, vs. the perceived benefit over an automatic on the other hand. I suspect it's less about the teacher and more about the motivational factors. If you're a driver who doesn't experience any shortcomings in an automatic, why would you want to drive a manual? This describes 95% of American drivers, I'll bet. On the other hand, the small minority of drivers who get frustrated by the way the automatic transmissions in their cars continually insist on upshifing into 5th, so they can labor along pathetically at 1,700 rpm while going 40mph on a gentle upgrade ... and who are analytical or mechanical enough to understand what the problem is ... when those people get into a manual and feel the control and performance and fun they can get out of the car by the simple act of leaving it in a lower gear for a bit longer, and feel the un-mediated chain of command between accelerator and drive wheels, they are psyched and may feel that the benefit outweighs the downsides.

post #150 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

I was skiing at Northstar, a place I get to about once every five years, on a firm, busy Saturday. Keeping the speed down due to the crowds I was impressed by the number of people ripping past me--going sideways. Don't know why they bother to put those metal things along the edges of skis. 

roflmao.gif

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