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I messed up, now im looking for some advice

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Ok so here is the deal, im kinda new to skiing, this year was the first time I started skiing in my life, and so far I went skiing 4 times.

Now first i practiced snowplow till I really got the hang of it, then wedge turns and then I worked my way up to parallel.

Atm im feeling very comfortable in doing just about anything from the things I mentioned on blue areas, well mostly im doing parallel since I see no reason in using snowplow anymore.
But last time I went ( the 4th time ) I was riding some blue tracks and then decided to go on a new path which leads to another blue path and a red path, and I was never there before.. things went well till I reached that intersection and I made the wrong turn because I found miself on a red track and it was really freaking steep, couldn't do much else then since the way up or towards some chairlift was too long so I went through it, it was pretty long and I had some huge problems tackling that hill.

Now what I want to know is, what do you guys think I did wrong, im obviously going to work my way up, im not just going to go on a 2 times steeper hill as I ever skied on, but it was a mistake and well what can you do, but still it gave me some experience on how the skies feel on such a steep hill and how they react, so now im trying to analyze the whole thing a bit.

One thing I noticed was that when I went along the hill and then tried to turn the other way in the end I lost control completely unlike on not so steep hills where I have perfect control, specialy the front skies they were completely lost, now my theory is that I might have unwillingly leaned back too much out of the fear that the big steep will speed me up alot and il lose control, do you think that was the problem?

And sometimes it also made me turn way too much and I fell, instead of going straight after finishing the turn it keept turning me upwards with my skies cuz i lost control, why was that?

In any case I had loads of problems, but it did give me some experience at least, and perhaps it will make my working up towards such steep slopes easier.

post #2 of 18

Sounds like you have a back seat/skiing aft problem. If the skis are facing straight downhill with no friction, skiing in a neutral stance means your center of mass (CoM) is straight out from the slope, not directly above your feet (gravity). This can be a bit intimidating for a new skier because it feels like you are throwing yourself down the hill. On a flat slope the difference is not big since the "straight out from the slope" and gravity directions are almost the same.

 

post #3 of 18

You probably did what anyone unfamiliar with steep terrain will do.  

 

--Your stance probably went back.  Leaning back works on dry land, so that's what people do when concerned about falling down the hill on slippery snow when they first encounter it.  You need to lean forward, down into the abyss.  Doing this is an acquired taste.

 

--You probably rushed your skis around to avoid spending too much time speeding straight down the hill.  Well, that's natural in this situation, right?  But rushing the skis around doesn't work - they will skid out of control.  You need to slow down the turn entry.  This also takes a while to learn.

 

--You probably turned your whole body as you turned your skis, in order to turn them fast and forcefully.  This works, for sure, in getting the skis pointing in the other direction very fast.  But once your downhill arm and shoulder are pointed in the new direction, you will usually be skidding out of control.  You need to know how to initiate a turn without rotating the upper body around, so your skis won't skid out.  

 

In summary, turning forcefully and quickly. leaning your body back and up the hill, pointing your whole upper body in one direction then in the other direction, means your skis whip around and don't get a chance to grip the snow so they slide out.   Down the hill you go, out of control.

 

The skill set to ski down steeper groomed terrain at the speed you choose is a skill set you need to gain before getting back on trails like that.  If you go back up and try to ski it better, using "common sense" and internet advice, you're likely to embed some very bad habits in your skiing.  Instead, you need to learn how to handle steep stuff in a lesson, on green or blue terrain that is easy to handle.  Get those skills solidly learned on easy terrain, then progressively work your way up to more difficult terrain.  

 

Take a lesson!

post #4 of 18

Do you know how to side slip and side step?

post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Do you know how to side slip and side step?

 

Yea but I didn't even thought about trying that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

You probably did what anyone unfamiliar with steep terrain will do.  

 

--Your stance probably went back.  Leaning back works on dry land, so that's what people do when concerned about falling down the hill on slippery snow when they first encounter it.  You need to lean forward, down into the abyss.  Doing this is an acquired taste.

 

--You probably rushed your skis around to avoid spending too much time speeding straight down the hill.  Well, that's natural in this situation, right?  But rushing the skis around doesn't work - they will skid out of control.  You need to slow down the turn entry.  This also takes a while to learn.

 

--You probably turned your whole body as you turned your skis, in order to turn them fast and forcefully.  This works, for sure, in getting the skis pointing in the other direction very fast.  But once your downhill arm and shoulder are pointed in the new direction, you will usually be skidding out of control.  You need to know how to initiate a turn without rotating the upper body around, so your skis won't skid out.  

 

In summary, turning forcefully and quickly. leaning your body back and up the hill, pointing your whole upper body in one direction then in the other direction, means your skis whip around and don't get a chance to grip the snow so they slide out.   Down the hill you go, out of control.

 

The skill set to ski down steeper groomed terrain at the speed you choose is a skill set you need to gain before getting back on trails like that.  If you go back up and try to ski it better, using "common sense" and internet advice, you're likely to embed some very bad habits in your skiing.  Instead, you need to learn how to handle steep stuff in a lesson, on green or blue terrain that is easy to handle.  Get those skills solidly learned on easy terrain, then progressively work your way up to more difficult terrain.  

 

Take a lesson!

 

Some very good advice.

Also not sure about my body turning but for sure I feelt like i was leaning back, and I also tried to rush my turns and do them as fast as I could because I didn't want to gain alot of speed.

post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 

Btw another issue I have is when I reach higher speeds my skis start to shake and kinda vibrate so instead of being perfectly parallel t hey might shake a bit to the side sometimes and it feels a bit uncomfortable like im not in complete control, any idea why that is?

post #7 of 18

Your skis are probably "chattering."  Does it feel like they grip, let go, grip, let go, grip, let go, very fast in rapid succession?  If so, that's chattering.  

 

It happens because of a bunch of related issues.  Too much pressure on the skis before they are firmly engaged (edged) and tracking forward in the snow will make this happen sometimes.  When chattering occurs, slow down the way you start your turns.   Use trial and error to adjust what you are doing to see what makes the chattering go away.  If it's continuous on all your turns, just keep changing your timing, slowing down different parts of the turn, and see what finally works.  It's just part of skiing.

 

Play with your skis by moving them around under you in every conceivable way to find your balance and get a good feel for the skis, and do this while you're on easy terrain.  Hop... slide them forward and back under you... widen and narrow your stance... tip them left and tip them right with your ankles.  Go bowlegged.  Go knock-kneed.  Play.  Investigate.  Look ahead at the imaginary lane you're skiing down, and learn to FEEL your skis and feet as you do this without looking down.  "Ski by Braille."  You'll gain versatility with play.

 

You're new to skiing, so all kinds of things will happen.   Enjoy the stimulation.  It's all good.  


Edited by LiquidFeet - 1/31/13 at 8:25am
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Your skis are probably "chattering."  Does it feel like they grip, let go, grip, let go, grip, let go, very fast in rapid succession?  If so, that's chattering.  

 

It happens because of a bunch of related issues.  Too much pressure on the skis before they are firmly engaged (edged) and tracking forward in the snow will make this happen sometimes.  When chattering occurs, slow down the way you start your turns.   Use trial and error to adjust what you are doing to see what makes the chattering go away.  If it's continuous on all your turns, just keep changing your timing, slowing down different parts of the turn, and see what finally works.  It's just part of skiing.

 

Play with your skis by moving them around under you in every conceivable way to find your balance and get a good feel for the skis, and do this while you're on easy terrain.  Hop... slide them forward and back under you... widen and narrow your stance... tip them left and tip them right with your ankles.  Go bowlegged.  Go knock-kneed.  Play.  Investigate.  Look ahead at the imaginary lane you're skiing down, and learn to FEEL your skis and feet as you do this without looking down.  "Ski by Braille."  You'll gain versatility with play.

 

You're new to skiing, so all kinds of things will happen.   Enjoy the stimulation.  It's all good.  

 

When i make turns its fine but when I drive straight and gain alot of speed it starts doing it, but good advice! I should experiment with the leg that does it ( my right leg 99% of the time ) and see what makes it better or what makes it goo away.

post #9 of 18

If you are going fast and straight and your skis are relatively flat when they are shaking/vibrating, then they are giving you feedback that you need to be on a higher edge angle. Shaped skis are designed to do this.

post #10 of 18

Many beginner skis wander from side to side because they tend to have generous side-cut to facilitate turning.  Basically, these skis want to turn all the time.  If you don't have them on-edge, they will try to follow little contours in the snow, potentially causing a fall.  Solutions include: (1) time and mileage, (2) always be turning and (3) new skis with more modest side-cut.

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveSkiing View Post

...on not so steep hills where I have perfect control... 

 

Based on the rest of your post, I'm skeptical of even this.

 

Liquid Feet had some fantastic analysis, but her last line is the bottom line...Take a Lesson!

If you love skiing after "4 times," you need to start loving the idea of taking lessons whenever opportunity and finances permit...doing so will ensure you love it even more.

post #12 of 18

iLoveSkiing,

I agree with the others - it's probably the skis trying to turn on little lumps in the snow.  They are "swimming."  This can cause a feeling of insecurity, and that feeling is natural.

 

So don't go straight.  Turn S-L-I-G-H-T-L-Y in one direction, just a barely-there-slow-motion-turn, then do one in the other direction.  You'll be going almost straight. This should solve the problem.  It will also get you making subtle turns that involve restraint.  

 

Restraint is good to have in your toolbox; it's part of versatility.

post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skierish View Post

 

Based on the rest of your post, I'm skeptical of even this.

 

Liquid Feet had some fantastic analysis, but her last line is the bottom line...Take a Lesson!

If you love skiing after "4 times," you need to start loving the idea of taking lessons whenever opportunity and finances permit...doing so will ensure you love it even more.


I would gladly take lessons but they cost alot of money and I can't afford them atm. When I can I will take them for sure.

 

Also when I say "perfect" I don't mean I ski even nearly perfectly, im pretty sure I do alot of mistakes and have alot to improve on and my stance, the way I use my body etc... is not great, what I mean with that tho is that when I ski on blue hills that are not steep at all, I feel completely comfortable making turns, I have no "problems" or moments where I feel like im not in control or not comfortable.

post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

iLoveSkiing,

I agree with the others - it's probably the skis trying to turn on little lumps in the snow.  They are "swimming."  This can cause a feeling of insecurity, and that feeling is natural.

 

So don't go straight.  Turn S-L-I-G-H-T-L-Y in one direction, just a barely-there-slow-motion-turn, then do one in the other direction.  You'll be going almost straight. This should solve the problem.  It will also get you making subtle turns that involve restraint.  

 

Restraint is good to have in your toolbox; it's part of versatility.

 

I see, this makes perfect sense!

 

The reason I was going straight is because I wanted to increase my speed to get more comfortable doing higher speed turns, but I guess you can also do it while taking slight turns.

post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela View Post

Many beginner skis wander from side to side because they tend to have generous side-cut to facilitate turning.  Basically, these skis want to turn all the time.  If you don't have them on-edge, they will try to follow little contours in the snow, potentially causing a fall.  Solutions include: (1) time and mileage, (2) always be turning and (3) new skis with more modest side-cut.

 

 

 

Thats almost exactly the shape of my skies, so I guess you are correct about them having a fair side cut.

post #16 of 18
You can't see how much sidecut you have just looking at them. Take a look at your ski and find a series of numbers on it, there should be three of them corresponding to the width in front, mid and rear, then R=something which is your sidecut radius. 15 is about average, 11 is very small and 19 is relatively large.

The best solution is to keep your skis on edge, even very slightly will keep them going in the direction they are pointed.
post #17 of 18
iLoveSkiing, here is the most important thing you need to know: Welcome to the brotherhood (sisterhood). We've ALL been there. You will figure it out in time ... much faster if you get some good coaching, as others have said. Don't get discouraged; it takes time. Enjoy the journey.
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

You can't see how much sidecut you have just looking at them. Take a look at your ski and find a series of numbers on it, there should be three of them corresponding to the width in front, mid and rear, then R=something which is your sidecut radius. 15 is about average, 11 is very small and 19 is relatively large.

The best solution is to keep your skis on edge, even very slightly will keep them going in the direction they are pointed.

 

Interesting, based on the number it seems like its between small and average.

 

It says:  Length 156   Radius 12,3     Dimensions 111,2-63,1-93,8

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