or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Set Marker demo binding to 320mm or 324mm for a 322mm boot?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Set Marker demo binding to 320mm or 324mm for a 322mm boot?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hey guys, first post so go easy. :)  Just bought some used skis (Volkl Unlimited R1) that have Marker 9.0 demo bindings on them.  The sole length adjuster goes in increments of 4 (i.e. 320mm, 324mm, etc), but my boots are 322mm.  So, which length should I pick?  The boot locks in on both settings, so is one "better" than the other?

 

FWIW, my calculated DIN is 6 (i'm 5'10", 175lbs, 41 yrs old, intermediate skier) and the bindings are set to 6 all the way around.  Hopefully all I need to do is set the length and I'll be good to go.

 

Pics:

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/skis_zpsf7c5659b.jpg

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/photo111-1_zps0acacacc.jpg

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/photo222_zps5af88508.jpg

post #2 of 26

since you are unfamiliar with bindings and adjusting them, go to a shop and have them adjust for you and set the forward release. its vey simple but I am sure if you give them $10.00 they would be very happy to show you how to set them. it shouldn't take more than a couple minutes.  

post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 

Fair enough.  So in addition to setting the boot sole length dial and the toe / heel DINs, there's also a forward pressure adjuster on the Marker M9.0 Speedpoint binding?

post #4 of 26

there should be biggrin.gif.  yes, its a very important adjustment which is why you won't find anyone really willing to explain here how to do it. Its not difficult but it has to be done correctly.  Just explain to the shop what you are trying to do and you are new to this and trying to learn. on the m9, there is a pin on the back of the heel (where almost all are) that needs to be flush but I would go to a shop and learn from a pro. 

post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 

From what I've just read regarding forward pressure, the screw on the back of the binding should be flush with the housing when the boot is locked in.  If it either sticks in or out then corrections need to be made.  And I'm assuming you simply turn the screw in or out to make it flush?

 

I appreciate the help BTW.  I'm not against taking it to a shop, it's just that I'm a big DIY kind of guy and typically know my way around mechanical devices (racing motorcycles will do that to a man).  Thanks!

post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrider View Post

From what I've just read regarding forward pressure, the screw on the back of the binding should be flush with the housing when the boot is locked in.  If it either sticks in or out then corrections need to be made.  And I'm assuming you simply turn the screw in or out to make it flush?

 

I appreciate the help BTW.  I'm not against taking it to a shop, it's just that I'm a big DIY kind of guy and typically know my way around mechanical devices (racing motorcycles will do that to a man).  Thanks!

 

 

sure, how are you are doing your own ACL reconstructions? Not so much?  learn to do the heel adjustment and forward release the correct way then.  wink.gif

post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

 

 

sure, how are you are doing your own ACL reconstructions? Not so much?  learn to do the heel adjustment and forward release the correct way then.  wink.gif

So I should instead entrust my ACL to a stoned, underpaid 18 year old shop tech then?  What could go wrong! :D

 

Seriously, I understand liability and everything else, but surely this isn't rocket science.  All the times I've rented, the tech has never once used a torque machine to verify the settings.  They simply pop the boots in, turn the screws, and call it good.  Surely I can do a better job than that?

 

From what I can glean without having my bindings in front of me, there are two ways Marker bindings can be adjusted for forward pressure.  One is to simply set the screw so that it's flush with the plastic housing when the boot is locked in:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/1_zpscfc0f2ba.jpg

 

The other is less clear -- apparently there is some sort of an adjustment window:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/2_zps96eda205.jpg

 

If mine are like the latter, can someone recommend where to line up the mark?

post #8 of 26

To set the forward pressure you need to do the adjustment with the boot not in the binding, so put the boot in, check the screw.  Take the boot out and adjust the screw.  Put the boot back in and check again.

 

I agree with Finn that having your bindings set or at least checked by a shop is a good idea.  That said I adjust my own bindings and haven't had them checked.

post #9 of 26

please address all legal affidavits to SkiMangoJazz....... boot in the binding or not? Should it be flush when in the binding or out?  See my point yet? icon14.gif

post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
So my bindings are like the 2nd picture above. There doesn't appear to be any way to adjust forward pressure. The big screw you can see in the pic below below adjusts the DIN, and I don't see any other means of adjustment. Thoughts?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/1558BCEA-7BC0-4996-9357-92CAEF8AAD63-1046-0000006AF24A5234.jpg
post #11 of 26

I'm not a binding tech. Don't play one on TV. So anything I say should be ignored...

 

If that is the class of Marker demo binding I think it is, there is a triangle on the flat "top" of the cylinder that pops out a bit when you insert your boot. If I were a tech (or played one on TV), I'd say that the way to adjust forward pressure on that binding is by picking the sole length setting on either side of your real BSL that pops that cylinder out closest to where the triangle tip is just cut off by the back of the housing. But IIRC anywhere in the middle of the triangle is OK. I offer this only as food for continuing down the path of getting real info - as in all honesty it has been a while since I have messed with that sort of Marker demo binding. In all seriousness, a binding maven like Philpug could probably help out here.

 

There is this older comment... http://www.epicski.com/t/59557/volkl-ac3-how-bad-are-demo-bindings-any-other-thoughts#post_778644 that might also be of use. Some googling for things like "marker demo binding triangle" may get you more detailed info.

post #12 of 26

Take them to a shop.

post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 

Is there an echo in here? :)   Honest question -- why is it so hard to get basic binding information?  You can look up how to replace the brakes on a Volvo and nobody gives it a second thought -- why the big mystery with skis?

post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

I'm not a binding tech. Don't play one on TV. So anything I say should be ignored...

If that is the class of Marker demo binding I think it is, there is a triangle on the flat "top" of the cylinder that pops out a bit when you insert your boot. If I were a tech (or played one on TV), I'd say that the way to adjust forward pressure on that binding is by picking the sole length setting on either side of your real BSL that pops that cylinder out closest to where the triangle tip is just cut off by the back of the housing. But IIRC anywhere in the middle of the triangle is OK. I offer this only as food for continuing down the path of getting real info - as in all honesty it has been a while since I have messed with that sort of Marker demo binding. In all seriousness, a binding maven like Philpug could probably help out here.

There is this older comment... http://www.epicski.com/t/59557/volkl-ac3-how-bad-are-demo-bindings-any-other-thoughts#post_778644 that might also be of use. Some googling for things like "marker demo binding triangle" may get you more detailed info.

THANK YOU! I'd missed your reply originally, but after finally reading it and the link you posted the pieces fell into place... I think!

Because the Marker Speedpoint 9.0 binding doesn't have a separate adjuster for forward pressure, I believe you need to use the BSL adjuster to do a "passive" adjustment on forward pressure. By dialing in different BSLs you automatically change the forward pressure setting. It appears the actual numbers on the BSL dial are just a ballpark guide; you also need to watch the forward pressure indicator.

I made a short video explaining it, but for me and my 322mm boot length I had to choose either 316 (too much forward pressure) or 320 (too little forward pressure). I'm going to go with the 320mm setting to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oqMB_rtVl4


Can anyone confirm (or shoot down) this technique? It's certainly different than most bindings in that there's no separate adjuster for forward pressure. Perhaps that's why almost nobody was able (willing?) to offer advice?
post #15 of 26

Forward pressure is always set by setting BSL--only demo bindings actually have numbers displayed but on non-demo bindings turning the screw or depressing a tab and manually sliding the housing (Salomon) moves the heel piece to accommodate the boot sole. 

 

It's typical for the BSL number on the dial to be inaccurate--my wife has that binding and with the bsl set 5 mm shorter than her boot the forward pressure is at the low end of the range.  Because of the angle of your video it's hard to tell but it looks to me like at 320 the triangle tip is just within the housing and at 316 the housing is just barely within the triangle base.  I'd agree with going with the 320. But you still should take them to a shop to have them release tested.  A device is used to find out how much torque is required to release the binding toes and heels. You want to be sure that the measured torque is the torque specified for a DIN of 6. Recommended to do that yearly. (Do as I say, not as I do.)

 

Why is it hard to get binding information? You know the answer--if Marker were to make that information readily available and you screwed it up and got hurt you could sue Marker for providing the information to someone not qualified to use it. And because the bindings have to be release tested at a shop.  To protect themselves binding manufacturers provide the information only to shops where someone has been trained to adjust and test bindings. (Could it also be that it's part of the commercial relationship between the shop and the manufacturer--manufacturer is ensuring that binding work goes to the shop which makes money on it.  Same reason you can't go to a high end furniture display room unless you're with an interior desginer. Same reason manufacturer sponsored free demo days are becoming rarer.) Could not the same thing be said about replacing the brakes on your car? Sure. So why is the brake information readily available? Hell if I know. 


Edited by oldgoat - 1/24/13 at 10:11pm
post #16 of 26

i am a 15 year marker certified tech. i can tell you the following...

 

if your marker forward pressure adjustment is like the one indicated by the pic below, a screw, the back of the heel housing needs to be flush with the screw for all DIN settings 5.0 and above. for DIN settings 4.5 and below, its to the hashed line.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/1_zpscfc0f2ba.jpg

 

 

for the other adjustment, pic below,  which is usually for demo bindings where the adjustment screw is in the center of the ski under the boot, you need to adjust the bindings so that the back of the heel piece lands somewhere within the grid once the boot is in place. sometimes it wont land in the middle or even on any of the hashed grid, in those cases i go on the loose side (the whole grid exposed). there is usually still enough forward pressure that it wont be an issue. there is no way to know if 320 or 324 will work. either one could depending on what the boot actually measures to and also where the heel piece falls on the grid. i usually find i need to set them slightly smaller, in your case on 320, to get the forward pressure right.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/2_zps96eda205.jpg

post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrider View Post


THANK YOU! I'd missed your reply originally, but after finally reading it and the link you posted the pieces fell into place... I think!

Because the Marker Speedpoint 9.0 binding doesn't have a separate adjuster for forward pressure, I believe you need to use the BSL adjuster to do a "passive" adjustment on forward pressure. By dialing in different BSLs you automatically change the forward pressure setting. It appears the actual numbers on the BSL dial are just a ballpark guide; you also need to watch the forward pressure indicator.

I made a short video explaining it, but for me and my 322mm boot length I had to choose either 316 (too much forward pressure) or 320 (too little forward pressure). I'm going to go with the 320mm setting to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oqMB_rtVl4


Can anyone confirm (or shoot down) this technique? It's certainly different than most bindings in that there's no separate adjuster for forward pressure. Perhaps that's why almost nobody was able (willing?) to offer advice?

 

your assessment is correct and the video depicts a common issue with bindings like these that i come across all the time. here is my feedback. in your specific case where 320 is too little forward pressure, and 316 looks like too much (in reality it looks like in the video that there is still a line or two left outside the housing). in this given situation i would then figure out how easy/hard is it to get the boot into the binding. at 316, if the boot freely can move in and out of the heel up without fully clamping down into the binding, and the skier was a decent sized person (not a small kid under 100lbs), then i would consider it to be acceptable. on 320, with the full forward pressure grid outside the housing, if the skiers ability level and size were higher i would be weary of leaving the pressure that loose. and yes, its all sorta ball park.

 

bottom line: ideally, you want the back of the heel housing to be anywhere in the grid. too little or too much is acceptable only if the boot can freely move in and out of the heel cup without snagging or excessive force. that would mean its too tight and the skier will be fighting it on the hill trying to click in.

post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 

I'm just stunned that the adjustment knob and the forward pressure indicator aren't more clearly marked.  The casual buyer (i.e. me, before I started thinking about all this stuff) would certainly think they just need to set the big knob to the size of the boot and forget about it.  Whereas in truth, the sizes on the knob are just a rough guide, and it's the pressure indicator on the back that really tells you where to set the knob.  Just seems very goofy and misleading...

 

As for my particular setup, at 316mm the pressure indicator is fully covered within the housing (none of the triangle is showing) so that seems like too much.  I'll go with the 320 setting, and when I take them to be waxed/sharpened I'll ask them to verify the release torque (assuming they have the equipment).

 

Thanks to those that provided detailed information -- much appreciated!

post #19 of 26

you are welcome, so in the end, you are taking to a shop for proper setting. this is the wise choice.  Cheers and enjoy

post #20 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by pgrider View Post

 

 and when I take them to be waxed/sharpened ....

 

As a DIY guy you should definitely learn how to tune your own skis.  It's fun, not difficult and will save you a ton of money.  Lots of info on epic about it.

post #21 of 26

yeah, but again, its always a good idea to learn from an expert and then go and try it. Tuning is simple and has much lower risk threshold than setting DINs and Releases. wink.gifYeah, simple but so easily messed up at the same time.

post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrider View Post

I'm just stunned that the adjustment knob and the forward pressure indicator aren't more clearly marked.  The casual buyer (i.e. me, before I started thinking about all this stuff) would certainly think they just need to set the big knob to the size of the boot and forget about it.  Whereas in truth, the sizes on the knob are just a rough guide, and it's the pressure indicator on the back that really tells you where to set the knob.  Just seems very goofy and misleading...

 

As for my particular setup, at 316mm the pressure indicator is fully covered within the housing (none of the triangle is showing) so that seems like too much.  I'll go with the 320 setting, and when I take them to be waxed/sharpened I'll ask them to verify the release torque (assuming they have the equipment).

 

Thanks to those that provided detailed information -- much appreciated!


im telling you where it should be. as long as there is plenty of room for the boot heel to freely slide into the heel cup (not rubbing excessively or a tight fit which will make it hard to get into on the hill), and the forward pressure grid is fully hidden in the heel then the 316 setting will do. however, if the boot is a tight fit when trying to click in, then go for the 320 mark. and yes, there is little room for adjustment when it comes to forward pressure on these bindings. unless you have the perfect BSL that will land you right in the middle of, or on any of the hash marks, then you will need to settle one way or another. personally, i dont like it and i hate when it comes across my work bench. i would say 50% of the time, the boot/binding combo lands in the grid. the other 50% i need to look at the skiers DIN setting and their aggressiveness level to determine if more or less forward pressure will be ok in their situation.

post #23 of 26

I just bought Volkl RTM 84 with Marker IPT wideride 4-12 demo bindings. My boots are 296mm. There are 4mm length adjustments.

 

I've set the length to 298 because I couldn't insert the boot with the 294mm setting. The indicator sticks out a little.

post #24 of 26

I'm replying to my previous post.  I ended up setting the bindings to 294mm.

 

I bought new boots 295mm. I put the boot in the binding and the rear indicator

 

stuck out all the way. I know this because I closed the other binding empty, with no boot,

 

and they were the same. I adjusted the binding to 294mm.  I then put my old boot in the

 

binding, which is 296mm. the indicator in the rear was right on. With the new 295mm

 

boot it sticks out slightly. I believe the bindings should be set up to 3mm less than

 

the boots size. Always check the indicator at the back of the bindings.

 

 

I am also CRAZYHAWK. I could not log into my previous account. 

post #25 of 26

I now found my original account.

post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictoresno View Post
 

i am a 15 year marker certified tech. i can tell you the following...

 

if your marker forward pressure adjustment is like the one indicated by the pic below, a screw, the back of the heel housing needs to be flush with the screw for all DIN settings 5.0 and above. for DIN settings 4.5 and below, its to the hashed line.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/pg_rider/1_zpscfc0f2ba.jpg

 

Just for clarity....that forward pressure screw is to be flush with the inner recessed portion of the binding? is that correct?

 

So I'm a hair out and if I tighten the screw I'm a hair in....what's better? This is based on turning the screw and feeling it fit in/click that 1/4 turn if you understand what I'm saying.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Set Marker demo binding to 320mm or 324mm for a 322mm boot?