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Please MA my ski video

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

 

I would really appreciate any feedback you guys can provide to help improve my skiing. Thank you!

post #2 of 19

Hi there, 

 

I see a lot of elements of good, leisurely skiing in your video. Consistent rhythm, consistent speed. Nice! You've also got enough mobility in your joints for the pace at which you're skiing. Incidentally, where are you skiing?

 

You'll notice you initiate each turn by planting, stepping onto your outside ski, and moving your upper body into the turn (with a bit of a shoulder twist). That works on flatter runs, but we can develop your technique to allow you to ski steeper pitches and more diverse runs -  and create more interesting body sensations.  

 

Some things I'd work on, in order: 

 

Turn from the lower body. Rather than twisting shoulders, focus on steering from your feet. When you steer from your feet, you'll find it easier on steeper pitches, bumps, and anytime you find yourself falling out of balance. An exercise to help: bracquage/pivot slips. 

 

Engage edges. You can engage your edge already around the fall line. Great! Now roll even higher on edge as you end the turn. Firstly, you'll complete your turns more, which will help on steeper pitches. Secondly, you'll feel more force against your  outside leg, and it'll be even easier to flow into your next turn without stepping or shoulder checking. 

 

Cleanly transition. Once you're engaging your edges, you'll be in a good position to simply flatten your skis to release, then steer your feet around into the next turn. At transition, I would think about gradually rolling the downhill ski onto its new edge. By doing so, both feet will flatten, your mass will travel downhill on its own, and your skis will arc around. Bracquage/pivot slips will help develop your transition. 

 

All the above will help you move from leisurely intermediate skiing into more dynamic, higher performance skiing. 

post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thanks a lot for your feedback. In the video, I am on a blue run in Ontario (Mount St Louis). I am in Jackson Hole right now, I'll practice what you suggested.  

post #4 of 19

I thought it was MSLM! But then I thought, "what are the odds?" Funny!

post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 

I have a hard time engaging my edges at the end of the turn (2nd point). I have been doing hokey stops to improve. Any other drills I could do? Also, I thought I was supposed to move my upper body into the run? I don't do it on short turns but how can I turn otherwise on medium and long turns?

 

Thanks again!

post #6 of 19
Spend some time standing on flat skis rolling your feet from side to side. Become familiar with feeling the bottoms and edges of your feet. If you can follow Metaphor's suggestion to roll onto higher edge angles AT THE FEET, you will find you can engage the edges better in the shaping phases of turns. You actually want to begin reducing edging at turn finishes as preparation for flowing into the next turn.
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtoSki2011 View Post

I have a hard time engaging my edges at the end of the turn (2nd point). I have been doing hokey stops to improve. Any other drills I could do? 

 

Could be a few reasons the edges aren't engaging; often it's balance-related. Do you feel balanced over the outside ski or does the outside ski slip away?  

 

J-turns. A blue run at MSLM would be perfect--need low traffic. Point the skis down the fall line until you get some momentum. Then gradually roll both your skis on edge. Keep on rolling them uphill even higher when they're nearly facing uphill. You should feel the pressure beside the arch against the boot in your outside foot, and along the outside of your foot on your inside foot. You should also feel lots of pressure of your leg against the side of the boot cuff. Both feet need to roll simultaneously. 

 

Alternately try "drift turns". Head to a moonstone blue pitch again - should be soft or hardpack (not ice). Pivot your skis through the turn. In doing so, you create a "platform" under your feet. Once you're solidly on that platform doing a bit of a drift, roll both edges - your skis should grip and redirect you on the arc. Flatten the skis, drift into your next turn, and repeat. 

 

 

Also, I thought I was supposed to move my upper body into the run? I don't do it on short turns but how can I turn otherwise on medium and long turns?

 

Good question about moving the upper body. It's one way to ski. The problem with moving the upper body is it's slow, and it disrupts your flow down the hill. When you look at high end skiers, they're moving their lower body at around twice the speed of their upper body--and extending the legs out, rather than moving their upper body.

 

Look at your turn at 00:13-00:16. You get your skis nicely on edge, flatten the skis under your body, and push into the next turn. If you can edge your skis a bit higher, your lower body will arc underneath your upper body into the next turn--no pushing or popping required. You can then extend your legs out to the side rather than extending your body up to carve some nice clean turns. This is a key to high end skiing! 

 

To help develop your steering with the lower joints, try some railroad tracks on a gentle pitch. A good spot when not busy is the crossover back to Mount St Louis beside the terrain park. 

 

 

I'm guessing you're skiing with the high park ski club. That's awesome! I started learning with the club and my skiing developed quite a bit through their sessions. See if you can get into a lesson with Rory Ring. He can help you develop these skills. 

post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thanks for everything Metaphor... much appreciated!

 

Wow... small world, I ski with High Park. Some really good instructors but I don't know Rory. I'll ask if he's still around.

post #9 of 19

He's definitely around since I skied a test drive day with him in December ;) I remember that he does like Blue Mountain though. Another great club instructor is Kasha (Katia?). There's also a Tom who's a level 3 too. 

post #10 of 19

That's Promenade - a great consistent blue pitch to work on. That's where I ski as well :). Keep the shoulders facing down the hill, to develop separation and improve angulation as well. Then just MOVE a lot more than you are moving now. The more you angulate (break at the hip, so the upper body is leaning the opposite way your skis are tipping) will give you better tipping of the skis and better carving. You do know about it, since you show it, but you have to MOVE a lot more than you are now.

 

Your hands are fairly still - but look at how low the inside gets after planting, just because the upper body is leaning in. that's your biggest problem i think. The next thing with the hands would be to NOT reach for the pole plant - you prepare too early to plant and then are reaching with the hand and upper body and that is rotating you into the turn - cancelling the effect of keeping your hands still. This is visible when you're below the camera. Just keep the hands where they are and plant from the wrist only - again, you seem to know about this :)

 

So, keep the hands still, like you are trying, but at the same time, keep the wrists level with the snow AND shoulders AND pointing down the hill at all times. That should be your next goal, I think.

 

cheers

post #11 of 19

I see a wedge exit that is most likely caused by trying to gain edge purchase (grip) with the outside ski. Abstem is the common term for this sort of down stemming move. Why that occurs is you are searching for greater edge purchase and mistakenly assuming a higher edge angle is needed. This is where pressure management enters the picture. Both foot to foot and fore / aft on the outside ski. The short explaination is that excessive tip pressure can make the tail wash but I suspect in your case seeking more edge purchase just may include plantar flexing your outside ankle. It also may include flexing your knees and hips through the end of your turns. Mostly to absorb excessive pressure but ironically it will also allow you to extend your outside leg through the next shaping phase that Kneale mentioned. Which brings us right back to the first idea I mentioned.

 

From the end of the shaping phase (middle third of a turn) to the beginning of the next shaping phase (middle third of the next turn) the objective is to transition from one set of edges to the other set of edges. If you are seeking higher edge angles while trying to transition off a high edge angle it should be obvious that you are working at crossed purposes. Said differently, the highest edge angles should not occur in the last third of most turns. Obviously, if you are adding a traverse to the end of the turn, then that tactic would work well but since we usually suggest eliminating traverses between turns that suggests the advice to seek higher edge angles through that last third of your turns needs to be questioned. It also creates a challenge when we try to release the current turn because just getting back to a neutral stance requires a larger untipping move. The first issue is time related and a larger move (increased range of motion) over a shorter time frame introduces a larger lateral acceleration that must be dealt with in the next turn. (Getting too far inside the next turn is a common problem we see with this type of transition). The second is since the current high edge platform is harder to release, getting off that platform generally involved an up, or an up and back move which introduces an upward (or up the hill) acceleration which is away from the direction you want your body to move.

 

Another small but significant thing is as you turn across the hill the effective edge angle increases naturally. Just standing sideways on a twenty degree slope produces a twenty degree edge angle. What this means is during the first half of a turn creating a twenty degree edge angle would require the skis and the shins to be tipped forty degrees from vertical. At the fall line the shins would be twenty degrees from vertical and as I just mentioned at the end of the turn the shins would be vertical. So relative to the snow surface keeping a consistent edge angle and thus consistent turn radius, requires us to rethink the idea of creating big edge angles during the last half of our turns. Relative to our torso this means our hips, knees and ankles are constantly flexing / extending to produce that consistent edge angle.

 

Logic suggests stance adjustments that promote getting off big edge angles through the last third of your turns simply make more sense. It also suggests to do that would require us to create those larger edge angles earlier. Say in the middle third of your turns. Skidded or carved it really does not change and the old school racing mantra of being more active in the first half of the turn is based on these simple facts. So how do we do that? Well it's a process but it starts with projecting the core towards the one third point in the next turn, not the two thirds point. It also includes flexing our legs through the end of the turn so we have the range of motion needed to extend our legs in the first third of the next turn. Although it needs to be pointed out that since the feet are turning across the hill further than the body, it feels like we are reaching out to the side of the hill with our feet and legs. Which is completely different from the feeling of standing taller by moving the body upward.

 

I call it swooping into the new turn but whatever you call it, my best advice is to work with a pro who understands all of this and knows more than a few ways to help you produce this change.

Enjoy!

JASP

post #12 of 19
Hey, what color is the high park crew? North TO is blue and snowhawks are green...
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I see a wedge exit that is most likely caused by trying to gain edge purchase (grip) with the outside ski. Abstem is the common term for this sort of down stemming move. Why that occurs is you are searching for greater edge purchase and mistakenly assuming a higher edge angle is needed. This is where pressure management enters the picture. Both foot to foot and fore / aft on the outside ski. The short explaination is that excessive tip pressure can make the tail wash but I suspect in your case seeking more edge purchase just may include plantar flexing your outside ankle. It also may include flexing your knees and hips through the end of your turns. Mostly to absorb excessive pressure but ironically it will also allow you to extend your outside leg through the next shaping phase that Kneale mentioned. Which brings us right back to the first idea I mentioned.

From the end of the shaping phase (middle third of a turn) to the beginning of the next shaping phase (middle third of the next turn) the objective is to transition from one set of edges to the other set of edges. If you are seeking higher edge angles while trying to transition off a high edge angle it should be obvious that you are working at crossed purposes. Said differently, the highest edge angles should not occur in the last third of most turns. Obviously, if you are adding a traverse to the end of the turn, then that tactic would work well but since we usually suggest eliminating traverses between turns that suggests the advice to seek higher edge angles through that last third of your turns needs to be questioned. It also creates a challenge when we try to release the current turn because just getting back to a neutral stance requires a larger untipping move. The first issue is time related and a larger move (increased range of motion) over a shorter time frame introduces a larger lateral acceleration that must be dealt with in the next turn. (Getting too far inside the next turn is a common problem we see with this type of transition). The second is since the current high edge platform is harder to release, getting off that platform generally involved an up, or an up and back move which introduces an upward (or up the hill) acceleration which is away from the direction you want your body to move.

Another small but significant thing is as you turn across the hill the effective edge angle increases naturally. Just standing sideways on a twenty degree slope produces a twenty degree edge angle. What this means is during the first half of a turn creating a twenty degree edge angle would require the skis and the shins to be tipped forty degrees from vertical. At the fall line the shins would be twenty degrees from vertical and as I just mentioned at the end of the turn the shins would be vertical. So relative to the snow surface keeping a consistent edge angle and thus consistent turn radius, requires us to rethink the idea of creating big edge angles during the last half of our turns. Relative to our torso this means our hips, knees and ankles are constantly flexing / extending to produce that consistent edge angle.

Logic suggests stance adjustments that promote getting off big edge angles through the last third of your turns simply make more sense. It also suggests to do that would require us to create those larger edge angles earlier. Say in the middle third of your turns. Skidded or carved it really does not change and the old school racing mantra of being more active in the first half of the turn is based on these simple facts. So how do we do that? Well it's a process but it starts with projecting the core towards the one third point in the next turn, not the two thirds point. It also includes flexing our legs through the end of the turn so we have the range of motion needed to extend our legs in the first third of the next turn. Although it needs to be pointed out that since the feet are turning across the hill further than the body, it feels like we are reaching out to the side of the hill with our feet and legs. Which is completely different from the feeling of standing taller by moving the body upward.

I call it swooping into the new turn but whatever you call it, my best advice is to work with a pro who understands all of this and knows more than a few ways to help you produce this change.
Enjoy!
JASP
I know that is english and it sounds like it should make sense but i have no clue as to what it means, so i don't meet your definition of "pro" which is fair since i am just a level 1.5 coach...

What actionables are there? Just find someone able to understand that? I know you read that the dude is new to skiing...
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I see a wedge exit that is most likely caused by trying to gain edge purchase (grip) with the outside ski. Abstem is the common term for this sort of down stemming move. Why that occurs is you are searching for greater edge purchase and mistakenly assuming a higher edge angle is needed. This is where pressure management enters the picture. Both foot to foot and fore / aft on the outside ski. The short explaination is that excessive tip pressure can make the tail wash but I suspect in your case seeking more edge purchase just may include plantar flexing your outside ankle. It also may include flexing your knees and hips through the end of your turns. Mostly to absorb excessive pressure but ironically it will also allow you to extend your outside leg through the next shaping phase that Kneale mentioned. Which brings us right back to the first idea I mentioned.

 

From the end of the shaping phase (middle third of a turn) to the beginning of the next shaping phase (middle third of the next turn) the objective is to transition from one set of edges to the other set of edges. If you are seeking higher edge angles while trying to transition off a high edge angle it should be obvious that you are working at crossed purposes. Said differently, the highest edge angles should not occur in the last third of most turns. Obviously, if you are adding a traverse to the end of the turn, then that tactic would work well but since we usually suggest eliminating traverses between turns that suggests the advice to seek higher edge angles through that last third of your turns needs to be questioned. It also creates a challenge when we try to release the current turn because just getting back to a neutral stance requires a larger untipping move. The first issue is time related and a larger move (increased range of motion) over a shorter time frame introduces a larger lateral acceleration that must be dealt with in the next turn. (Getting too far inside the next turn is a common problem we see with this type of transition). The second is since the current high edge platform is harder to release, getting off that platform generally involved an up, or an up and back move which introduces an upward (or up the hill) acceleration which is away from the direction you want your body to move.

 

Another small but significant thing is as you turn across the hill the effective edge angle increases naturally. Just standing sideways on a twenty degree slope produces a twenty degree edge angle. What this means is during the first half of a turn creating a twenty degree edge angle would require the skis and the shins to be tipped forty degrees from vertical. At the fall line the shins would be twenty degrees from vertical and as I just mentioned at the end of the turn the shins would be vertical. So relative to the snow surface keeping a consistent edge angle and thus consistent turn radius, requires us to rethink the idea of creating big edge angles during the last half of our turns. Relative to our torso this means our hips, knees and ankles are constantly flexing / extending to produce that consistent edge angle.

 

Logic suggests stance adjustments that promote getting off big edge angles through the last third of your turns simply make more sense. It also suggests to do that would require us to create those larger edge angles earlier. Say in the middle third of your turns. Skidded or carved it really does not change and the old school racing mantra of being more active in the first half of the turn is based on these simple facts. So how do we do that? Well it's a process but it starts with projecting the core towards the one third point in the next turn, not the two thirds point. It also includes flexing our legs through the end of the turn so we have the range of motion needed to extend our legs in the first third of the next turn. Although it needs to be pointed out that since the feet are turning across the hill further than the body, it feels like we are reaching out to the side of the hill with our feet and legs. Which is completely different from the feeling of standing taller by moving the body upward.

 

I call it swooping into the new turn but whatever you call it, my best advice is to work with a pro who understands all of this and knows more than a few ways to help you produce this change.

Enjoy!

JASP

Try to pay attention Razie. wink.gif

I was commenting on Metaphors advice and I disagree with that high edge angles at the end of the turn advice and gave my reasons. Did you notice how congruent my advice is with Kneale's? Actionables? they are in the highlighted paragraph above..

post #15 of 19

well, jasp, I'd disagree with your reasoning. The end of the turn, phase 3, is for loading and deflection. By increasing load and deflection, you build pressure and forces driving the body downhill, which makes the first phase even easier. I'm actually quite shocked as your recommendations encourage low performance skiing. 

post #16 of 19

I'm with JASP, Met.... IMHO. There's nothing low performance about his suggestion at all. Matter of fact, watch some vid of Mikaela Shiffrin. The beauty of her skiing is the pressure management in the 'finishiation'. Most of her work is done by the time she reaches the fall line and in the final third of the turn, her CoM is already starting to cross the direction of her skis, and of course, they flatten and release. She really is a master... Maybe THE current master of a soft transition and pressure management with a very different outcome than loading the final third would suggest. Loading up at the end is a common habit of less accomplished racers. It just isn't fast and it's more difficult to re direct one's CoM. There's no better way to get back and inside than to load up at the end rather than the shaping phase. 

post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

I'm with JASP, Met.... IMHO. There's nothing low performance about his suggestion at all. Matter of fact, watch some vid of Mikaela Shiffrin. The beauty of her skiing is the pressure management in the 'finishiation'. Most of her work is done by the time she reaches the fall line and in the final third of the turn, her CoM is already starting to cross the direction of her skis, and of course, they flatten and release. She really is a master... Maybe THE current master of a soft transition and pressure management with a very different outcome than loading the final third would suggest. Loading up at the end is a common habit of less accomplished racers. It just isn't fast and it's more difficult to re direct one's CoM. There's no better way to get back and inside than to load up at the end rather than the shaping phase. 

 

Thats phase 1.  You guys are using different terminology.  This video explains basic turn phases used by CSIA, most race coaches, and other national teaching bodies. 

 

The turn phases need to be thought of from the skiers perspective....once the COM is starting to cross...or "released from the old turn"...then that turn is done, and the next turn is starting..hence "Phase 1."

 

post #18 of 19
Actually, the dual paths idea has a few variations and where you place the strong shaping effort dictates where we project the core. Making the last third where that occurs has a legitimate use. If offset is such that an across the hill reaching turn is the best choice, the end of the previous turn is going to include high edges. At least enough to get the direction change done. Then all of that changes as the new turn requires the strong shaping efforts to occur much earlier. At the highest levels a setter forces racers to use strong shaping efforts in all of these places. Versatily wins the day.
post #19 of 19

^^^ The chicken dinner is all yours. ^^^^

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