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Relatively new to shaped skis - do I pick - Harb (PMTS) - Clendenin Ski Method - Klaus Mair (Sofa Ski School) - Page 6

post #151 of 172

Since we got talking about this again, here's a nice drill for getting mobile and low - have had it done to me at a CSCF course and I am doing with the kids now weekly: we can call it the "penguin": put wrists on hips, fingers pointing down. now try to reach the snow with the fingers, in every turn. the fastest 12 year olds can do this easily. it's a perfect relationship between fast/great skiing and ability of doing the penguin properly. I will try to get some video of it this week.

 

Simply doing this drill properly (external cue guarantees consistency of outcome) gives you WC angles to the snow, checking that most of one's free-ski technique is up to par. I myself can now touch maybe 1-2 out of 5 turns, depending on conditions. I just lost a contest with 3 of my fastest yesterday on this :).

 

cheers

 

[edit] sorry - the context here is discussing my getting low and the fact that that's how I know that if I get tall between turns there is no way to touch doing the penguin. You can only touch on SL skis if you sit low in transition and flex to release... now I'm not a WC athlete, maybe those guys have enough mobility to do this while also getting tall - don't know.


Edited by razie - 2/4/13 at 10:21am
post #152 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Since we got talking about this again, here's a nice drill for getting mobile and low - have had it done to me at a CSCF course and I am doing with the kids now weekly: we can call it the "penguin": put wrists on hips, fingers pointing down. now try to reach the snow with the fingers, in every turn. the fastest 12 year olds can do this easily. it's a perfect relationship between fast/great skiing and ability of doing the penguin properly. I will try to get some video of it this week.

 

Simply doing this drill properly (external cue guarantees consistency of outcome) gives you WC angles to the snow, checking that most of one's free-ski technique is up to par. I myself can now touch maybe 1-2 out of 5 turns, depending on conditions. I just lost a contest with 3 of my fastest yesterday on this :).

 

cheers

 

[edit] sorry - the context here is discussing my getting low and the fact that that's how I know that if I get tall between turns there is no way to touch doing the penguin. You can only touch on SL skis if you sit low in transition and flex to release... now I'm not a WC athlete, maybe those guys have enough mobility to do this while also getting tall - don't know.

How do you avoid booting out if your finger tips are touching the snow while your wrists are on your hips?  Or hipping out?

post #153 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

How do you avoid booting out if your finger tips are touching the snow while your wrists are on your hips?  Or hipping out?

i'll post the video this weekend, if my new camera arrives in time. one thing to do is to separate the feet horizontally as you build the big angles - you start narrow as usual in SL and you keep "pulling up"/flexing the unloaded inside leg to pull the boot up - the cue there is touching the inside boot with the outside knee, at maximum angle.

 

That's one of the things we worked on yesterday - had the kids cross-block stubbies - some actually managed to do just that eek.gif

 

i do let some of them cheat - putting the wrists a little below the hips...

 

[edit] - here is the idea: http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Men+Slalom+FIS+Skiing+World+Cup+0kxNdl6tQdEl.jpg

 


Edited by razie - 2/4/13 at 12:05pm
post #154 of 172

Awesome, razie. Please do post a video of this penguin drill. I too thought I could get pretty low until I saw a video of me skiing yesterday frown.gif

post #155 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Awesome, razie. Please do post a video of this penguin drill. I too thought I could get pretty low until I saw a video of me skiing yesterday frown.gif

Will do.

 

There is an intermediate version of it we call "fun carving" as that was the name of a youtube video that showed it - the kids love this one - basically just try to touch the snow as long as possible during a turn, whichever way you can :). It is much easier than the penguin but does require you to get pretty low and that's builds then a nice progression into the penguin.

 

 

cheers

post #156 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Awesome, razie. Please do post a video of this penguin drill. I too thought I could get pretty low until I saw a video of me skiing yesterday frown.gif

   I always thought I was fast. Till I watched video of myself training GShissyfit.gif!!

   

 

    P.s. What a totally random thread this is.....biggrin.gif

     zenny

post #157 of 172

Hi ozskiguy,

 

I actually have both PMTS and Sofa Ski School and worked on them extensively so I can shred some lights. 

 

I first bought SofaSkiSchool in early 2010 when I was wedging and struggled to make any parallel turn. People just told me to "turn" but how? There wasn't any clear explanation on how to make a ski turn. It was like magic.

 

Klaus' DVD introduced me to the use of edging by turning the knees to put skis on edge, come up and forward during transition.  After some practicing, I was able to carve long-turns in a park-and-ride position but was out-of-control. It wasn't pretty but at least I can make parallel turns. 

 

However, I quickly realized edge-locked carve was simply too fast for my skill level and put me in in danger in steeper terrain. I wanted to ski slower but SofaSki school didn't have a lesson for that. As result, I took a lesson with a local ski instructor which probably wasn't too useful except that I finally got having some MA videos.

 

After posting on this forum, someone introduced me to PMTS so I googled it. I bought the Essentials and DVDs which were quite good. It introduced many concepts which I didn't know before such as creating an angle or turning is done by tipping the feet instead of rolling the knee(SofaSki). I was able to improve on my tipping ability still struggled with uncontrollable "carving" until someone recommended How to be an Expert Skier 1 & 2 & DVDs.

 

Essentials and DVDs are great for advanced skiers but if you want to learn PMTS, How to be an Expert Skier 1 & 2 & DVDs is the way to start. The books follow a linear progression model and cover everything from the very basic of eliminating the wedge to bump skiing. Essentials is like a reference book, and How to be an Expert Skier is like a training manual.

 

I'm thankful for Klaus' DVD because it introduced me to parallel skiing and gave me the first feeling of carving but PMTS propelled me to the next level. I'm still an intermediate but I get comments and questions from people while riding on chairlifts such as "are you in a race team?", "can you teach me how do you make those turns?", "you have good technique". The most sincere compliment is when I see others including instructors began to replicate the exercise I was working on.

 

Skiing seemed like magic to me until PMTS came along because it broke down every movement into simple and understandable term and have drills to perfect those movements. PMTS made me a faster skier with better balance yet able to dial down the speed at will. PMTS also made me a versatile skier. Today, we had 30 cm of powder and was quickly turned into bumps. Luckily, I had been practicing Uphill ski balance and the super-phantom move in the past weeks or else I'd have struggled severely under today's condition. Maybe there are other methods but PMTS is the only comprehensive system I've used that teaches excellent technique in a way that could be practiced by anyone.

 

 

If you have the choice, start with PMTS because it will(with a lot of practice) make you a better skier. 

post #158 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

 

 

Look here, WC skiers "getting tall" in every turn. Weird huh? This was before a certain regulation changed the way GS was skied, but I won't bother anyone with why because I guess we lost most readers by now :-)

 

Great clip, Jamt.

 

and concise answers in this post as well.

I guess it was me that helped launch this direction w/ the idea that there was some... hum.. "upward release of energy" in JFB turns. 

 

my main point was that I really liked the canadian demo team's skiing, and allowing that upward release of energy has created more relaxation in my skiing this year, instead of working so hard to absorb that energy or direct it laterally. 

 

there are a variety of ways to control pressure, and some aren''t by definition bad while others are good. choices are good.

 

and yes, Ozskiguy, you are required to read all posts as least twice, and be able to recite them before you hit the snow in tahoe. :)

 

cheers,

Holiday

post #159 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday View Post

 

Great clip, Jamt.

 

and concise answers in this post as well.

I guess it was me that helped launch this direction w/ the idea that there was some... hum.. "upward release of energy" in JFB turns. 

 


cheers,

Holiday

 

Just so people are clear:

 

JF and "JB or JFB" are different people.  There is also a "JFL" (People actually call him JF) .....he is a different guy again.  All CSIA L4s and all great skiers and teachers...but different people.


Edited by Skidude72 - 2/9/13 at 2:09pm
post #160 of 172

Mac. I agree. I'm pleasantly surprised the entire thread has grown to 6 pages. I applaud nickia's well written post. Calm open discussion helps everyone. This is clearly a kinder, more tolerant  Epic then some times in the past.

post #161 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post

 

 

Anyone taking any bets as to how long it will be before this post gets deleted?popcorn.gif


I will.  Never.  Why would it?  Its a good post.  th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #162 of 172

I agree. Let's hope you're right.

post #163 of 172

Why might it? Because anything pro PMTS is usually considered anti PSIA around these parts. And the majority usually rules.

post #164 of 172

Not to worry. th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #165 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Awesome, razie. Please do post a video of this penguin drill. I too thought I could get pretty low until I saw a video of me skiing yesterday frown.gif
Here's my son trying the penguin. The snow was a little chopped up and he was having some trouble, but you get the idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnaLlD0H_xg&sns=em


Edited by razie - 2/15/13 at 2:42pm
post #166 of 172

^^^ Very cool. Thanks, Razie.

post #167 of 172

And here's me trying the penguin - finally found some video, sorry for the quality. It's an awesome drill - except for getting you to stay a little back on the skis, it puts together a lot of other skills, makes you use actively the top of the turn, to dig the edges in before the fall line; stay dynamic and move throughout the turn and many others - it's the quintessential CSCF racer's drill.

 

http://youtu.be/ShqAWpy7s0o

 

 

cheers,

Razie

post #168 of 172

Thanks, Razie.  That helps a lot.  I couldn't visualize this drill before the videos.

 

You say it's a "quintessential" racer's drill despite getting skiers aft a bit.  By that I think you mean CSCF coaches rely on it regularly?

post #169 of 172

So it looks like you must keep your arms touching your sides in the penguin drill.  What exactly are the movements and the goals of this drill?

post #170 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

You say it's a "quintessential" racer's drill despite getting skiers aft a bit.  By that I think you mean CSCF coaches rely on it regularly?
I think getting aft may be due to my current skill level. I don't think I would have to and in fact it may explain why I sometimes feel in more of a controlled skid.

I had it done to me by a level 3 guy and something similar by a level 4 - it's mostly about range of movement but so many things must go right, I don't know other drills to capture so many. It is known by some coaches but not actually used except the higher levels, maybe because of an inability to demo ? wink.gif

There is another form, less extreme, of skiing with the hands locked behind your back, where you get as low as you want basically, but this one has the added external cue.
post #171 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

So it looks like you must keep your arms touching your sides in the penguin drill.  What exactly are the movements and the goals of this drill?
I am not sure how to answer this. Locking the hands is an added challenge, but needed to provide the external cue of actually touching.

As a progression to this I use "fun carving" or touching the snow on the inside, with the hand, but that one has more negative side-effects, like inclination, so this is my favorite, instead.
post #172 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by swisstrader View Post

I would start with a qualified instructor and get some hands on instruction...

 

I'm an instructor at Northstar and depending on the dates, am available to teach you the joys of the shaped ski...

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