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My turn shape is better, when I lift the inside ski. what should I do? (Video)

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 



Last weekend I did the "lift inside ski" drill in order to improve my balance and took a little video clip.

 



The first turn, which i used two feet, was not so round and involved many skidding.  The other turns with one foot skiing, was more carved , rounded and control the speed not by skidding.

My problem is, when I do some drills, I can do it well and feel much better. And then I ski nomally, after a few turn , all those good feeling has gone and I ski bad.
What should I deal with it?  I need your help, many thanks.

post #2 of 21
My turn shape is better, when I lift the inside ski. what should I do?

Lift the inside ski!

 

What should I deal with it? 

 

Do the drills until you develop muscle memory to ski like the drill. But also:

1) Gradually lift the tail less until you are just barely lifting the tail

2) Gradually increase the pressure on the lifted ski's tip so that it stays in contact with the snow throughout the whole turn

3) Gradually decrease the amount of the turn that the ski is lifted until you are lifting just for turn initiation (until you are on the new edge)

post #3 of 21

Second that. It's all muscle memory.

 

As soon as you realize the feelings gone, repeat exercise.  Eventually, you won't have to do them anymore.

 

Don't worry we all go through some sort of progression issues as we strive to improve.  Sometimes its minutes, sometimes it feels like forever.

 

One other hint, if you are skidding in your turns your wt is slightly back, the reason it doesn't happen  with you leg up is because you have to weight your ski properly to get it to turn.  Funny as it sounds, both legs make you lazy, one makes you work correctly.

 

 

Good luck.

post #4 of 21

You know which turns feel right and which turns feel wobbly.  That's great.  

Just ski it, over and over, seeking the feeling that you know is strong and good.  

It might take longer than you think to get all your turns feeling right, but if you can feel which ones are solid, and you get those turns intermittently, then that's all you need to know.  Repetition seeking that feeling, over and over, will produce the results you want.

 

Seeking advice once you've felt the good feeling is often confusing and derails your attention from where it needs to be.  Focus on the good feeling and make it happen.  

 

Now if you didn't know which turns were good and which turns were wobbly, or if you got that feeling once but couldn't reproduce it again, then you'd need some advice.  

post #5 of 21

We have a saying "hide the drill, keep the skill".  As Rusty wrote, just mellow out the lifting...at the moment you are lifting the ski about 10 inches...next time go for 6inches, then 3inches, then 1 inch, then 1/2inch, then 1/4 inch....then go ski!

post #6 of 21

/\/\/\ What they said.  It will correct the problem.

 

I would offer something to think about - "Why" are the one footed turns better?  What are you doing different? Obviously you can do it and have video proof.  Now you just have to understand what the difference is.  I have some suspicions but it might be good for you to go ski and in one run, alternate between one and two footed turns.  See if you can tell the difference and once you know, replace the poor turn behavior with the good turn behavior.  What could be easier biggrin.gif

 

Have fun,

 

Ken

post #7 of 21

  All of the above---though I might also suggest employing a little more angulation as you practice these lifted ski turns...body moves over the outside ski more, thus bending it more. Then when you ski with both on the snow, maintain this position. I think you're "losing this feeling" because there's too much weight on the inside (when on both). Haven't seen you on both, though, so I could be wrong....

 

    zentune

post #8 of 21

Sometimes lifting the inside ski is the thing to do...

*

post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thanks, it's very helpful and I will work on it.

post #10 of 21

Or both skis as in this picture.  He isn't turning yet as the outside ski is only touching at the tip.  Looks like he's waiting for his skis to land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post

Sometimes lifting the inside ski is the thing to do...

*

post #11 of 21

Hi Chalpha

 

I agree with Rusty and Skidude : carry on with lifting one ski up drills. Invent some others and tell us about.

Nice photo & stance, but no relation at all !

 

Also, what I  spotted looking to your video several times :

a clear skidding in the beginning -  means forcing the turn from the knee

a moment of instability in the middle (fall line) - means weak foot & ankle

another skidding in the end - means not enough angulation (but this is understandable in one leg turns).

 

A video with your skiing (not drilling :)) can help more.

 

I think you have the tendency to shift your edges to quickly, using too much power and rotation from your knees. This creates the skidding, unbalance your body, weakening your feet and ankles and  blocking hip angulation.

Get back to basics and reshape your turn pattern, starting with the simultaneous rotation of your feet in direction you want to turn.

Second, between turns have a clear and long enough moment with the skis flat on snow, and a very gradual edge involvement for the next.

Just my opinion.

 

Relax ! And have fun :)

post #12 of 21

Fairly sure that's Tina Maze, a she. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

Or both skis as in this picture.  He isn't turning yet as the outside ski is only touching at the tip.  Looks like he's waiting for his skis to land.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post

Sometimes lifting the inside ski is the thing to do...

*

 

post #13 of 21
it is wink.gif looks like her anyway...

zenny
post #14 of 21

Many skiers who fear the accleration while in the fall line will shove and twist their feet downhill in a braking motion, placing their hips too far back (and blocking the flow)

 

When you lift one ski tip its pretty hard to shove your other foot away, so you may be finding that your hips do a better job keeping up with your feet.

post #15 of 21

I never think about twisting the skis when I'm carving.

The skis do the turning, not me.

My job is to put them on edge and pressure the front part of the ski.

The skis do the rest.

It is also my job to stay in dynamic balance and not end up in an awkward position at the end of the turn.

 

The first clean turn is the hardest when you are starting a carving run.

Racing teaches this very well because you know where you are going to turn and what you want to do.

I really concentrate on my first turn as a freeskiing drill.

From a wide stance traverse position, I pressure the outside ski by moving my body lower to pressure the boot cuff while simultaneously steering the ski by moving my knee in.

You can roll your knee in by rotating your femur in the hip socket with the knee bent.

There is a very subtle part of the first turn I call "finding the edge."

When you are pressuring the cuff and rolling your knee in you have to be very gentle until you feel the edge lock.

Once you have found the edge you can stand on that SOB and get your inside ski working too.

If you try to load the ski before it has edge lock you will skid.

Once the ski locks all good GS racers try to hit it as hard as possible to do most of their turning in the top of the turn.

Subsequent turns are easy because you have speed and rotational momentum to work with.

Try it on a blue slope.

Traverse, drop to GS position, roll your knee, find the edge and stand on it.

To get both skis playing well together you will find you have to roll your inside knee more than the outside one because you need more edge angle to carve the smaller, inside radius.

 

If you do this well, don't think you are going to slow down.

Done really well you will accelerate out of the turn.

You will have to learn how to drift the skis while still largely carving to keep speeds reasonable on anything but a blue run.

 

Be safe, have fun and learn to carve well.

Skidding, hopping, twisting, up unweighting, down unweighting and just plain pulling it out of your ass are all valuable parts of good technique.

Plan to do some high speed crashing too, there is only one way to know where the limit is.

Don't do dumb stuff like going fast when you don't know the way.

Like Hunter Thompson said " I don't mind dying doing crazy . I don't want to die doing stupid."

post #16 of 21

The take away for you is that for good carving to hold, all the weight should be balanced on the outside ski. That's what happens automatically when you lift the inside ski. And that's what most likely you're not doing when putting it down.

 

Make sure you keep ALL/most weight on the outside ski, even when you put the inside ski on snow. Just make sure it is tipped to the same angle as the other one and it will come along nicely.

 

Putting just the tip on snow and lifting just the tail will also make sure you are balanced properly fore/aft on the skis - not a bad thing.

 

Many a racer will lift the inside ski early in the turn - usually the reason is to speed up the edge change and throw the body over the skis faster, but also the same effect on weight/pressure.

 

Watch good skiers or those with racing experience in a flush and you will detect in most a slight lifting of the tail of the inside ski.

 

keep it up!

post #17 of 21

Interesting as the problem is usually an 'instinctual' lift, where your video shows on 'on purpose' lift.  Frankly I think the problem is related. I would suspect your not releasing the downhill (inside) ski at the same time as the uphill when your 'not feeling the love' in your turns. In the video you've taken the iniside out of the equation, and have a nicer turn. When you release the uphill ski first, you release the weight on your inside and step, which usually results in heal push when you reweight it. (I'm guessing a bit here as there wasn't enough video of two footed skiing) Three things to concentrate on, to see if it will help....

  • When initiating the turn, move your weight downhill so your jacket zipper is aligned over your downhill/inside ski.
  • Concentrate on releasing/flattening the inside ski first. The outside ski/foot/leg knows what to do.
  • Be carefull not to rush the turn. Let gravity help you. "gravity is not just a good idea, its the law".

 

Have someone film you in some easy bumps. If your having release/step problems with the inside ski it always shows there. It can be subtle on the groomers which may be your issue.  Good luck and happy turns.

 

Todd

PSIA, Taos

post #18 of 21
"Gorilla turns" helped my problem..
Find a comfy pitch,widen your stance uncomfortly wide.By making your stance really wide it will be impossible to lift that uphill leg.make some turns to get the feeling of having both feet planted.
Now slowly make your stance more comfy while retaining a slightly wider than what your used to stance.
post #19 of 21

With your one-footed skiing you don't get your feet very far out to the side, and that will be a problem for more difficult terrain.  I like the idea of the gorilla turns.  Basically, you need a stronger inside half.  Gorilla turns will help as would skiing with a six inch ball between your knees.  Both will encourage your inside ski to take a more active part in the turning process.

 

Look at my avatar, Zentune's and Raddu.  Look at how far away from our body our skis are.

 

Next time out, try these turns with a much lower stance.  You are so upright you can't create any angles.  Look at the (extreme) angles the racer has in that picture then look at your upright stance.  Can you make these turns with the outside foot in the air?  Give it a shot.

 

Bob

post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
 

We have a saying "hide the drill, keep the skill".  As Rusty wrote, just mellow out the lifting...at the moment you are lifting the ski about 10 inches...next time go for 6inches, then 3inches, then 1 inch, then 1/2inch, then 1/4 inch....then go ski!

"hide the drill, keep the skill"... Love it!

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by steppahcyde22 View Post

"Gorilla turns" helped my problem..
Find a comfy pitch,widen your stance uncomfortly wide.By making your stance really wide it will be impossible to lift that uphill leg.make some turns to get the feeling of having both feet planted.
Now slowly make your stance more comfy while retaining a slightly wider than what your used to stance.

 

 

quite honestly gorilla turns make people balance back on their inside skis. they also tend to cause people to let their hips follow the turn as its much harder to maintain CA/CB counter action and counter balance when your inside ski is not underneath of you. 

 

personally I can ski any trail on any mountain in hard pack conditions from outside foot to outside foot and can get real angles as well. Including bumps....

 

if you able to develop angle past what you are able to do with only having your outside foot on the ground my guess is that you are using your inside ski as a prop to keep you up instead of having you balance on your outside ski. 

 

for the ultimate in learning how to rail both skis though any turn go find some easier green/blue terrain that is wide and learn to make one footed(with out switching) rail road tracks. 

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