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Kastle hollow tips - marketing bullsh*t or useful feature?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Before any kastle fanboys get irate, let me say that I own MX88's and they're the best skis I've ever been on (well except for the DPS Lotus 138 in powder).

 

But I've started wondering how much difference the hollow tips make in reducing swing weight, and if you put duct tape over them and ran a double blind test with identical skis (with no hollow tips) if anyone could even tell the difference.

 

If hollowing the tips is so awesome, why doesn't everybody else do it?

 

Regardless they look darn cool. :)

post #2 of 14

Let me say that I don't presently own any Kastle skis, but I have in the past. I also have spent time demoing a few different models, most notably the new MX83. It only stands to reason that the hollowed out tip makes it somewhat lighter. Also stands to reason that it would reduce swing weight. Does it effect the performance of the ski? Can't say for sure, but I do know that the tips of the MX series skis stayed glued to the snow with as little vibration as like nothing I've ever tried before. Don't know for sure if the hollowed out tip is the reason, but Kastle claims that is what it's supposed to do. Why have other companies not picked up on that? Who knows. Ski companies come out with gimmicks all the time, and most of them are just that. Maybe this time a ski company has come out with something that actually does what they claim it will.

post #3 of 14

Fischer had the "hole ski" in some of their race skis for a few years which had the same idea. Does it work? I don't know, I have the FX 94 which I like. They have hollowed out tips and tails to make them even lighter. Would I like them as well or more with filled in holes? Who knows. I agree they are a very nice looking line of skis to my eye.

post #4 of 14

A better quote might be: skis without innovative features or advanced design elements - marketing bs or cheap practical construction?


Edited by davluri - 1/8/13 at 5:48pm
post #5 of 14

You dont need to do a double blind test with a different ski, you could duct tape 55g or so of weight to the top of the hollow tech and see how different they feel. That would give you your answer.

post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

You dont need to do a double blind test with a different ski, you could duct tape 55g or so of weight to the top of the hollow tech and see how different they feel. That would give you your answer.

 

That's assuming the hole itself does not have some kind of damping effect as Fischer claims.

post #7 of 14

well, it's a better test than comparing to a totally different ski from a different brand.

post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

You dont need to do a double blind test with a different ski, you could duct tape 55g or so of weight to the top of the hollow tech and see how different they feel. That would give you your answer.

^^^^ This. Control for as many variables as possible. Isolate the one you're interested in. Incidentally, since a number of respected brands have tried for a number of years to produce lower mass tips (think Dynastar "bubbles," Fischer holes, Kastle cutouts, Rossignol cascade tips, Dynastar partial caps), and these brands have pretty decent engineers working for them, odds are the idea is based on sound principles. Which make sense to me with my limited college physics. But note it's not the only way to reduce tip deviation; Blizzard and Stockli tend to do just the opposite, with fairly burly tips and shovels that blast through anything.

 

Trying different approaches to solve a problem doesn't mean something's "marketing bs," y'know. May just mean that at this stage of ski design, progress is small and incremental, so the marketing guys seize on modest improvements to foreground. If you think otherwise, go ski a Rossignol 4S, the world's best recreational ski from a generation ago, and tell me how nothing much has changed...wink.gif

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 

Sorry guys, what I meant was - in theory, if you could get Kastle to build a ski with solid tips and tails, and then ski it with duct tape over the section with the cut-out so visually you couldn't tell the difference. Thus, skiing with only one variable change.
 

I certainly didn't mean to ski a Kastle back to back with a different brand ski and hope that would yield insight as to the effectiveness or lack-thereof of a hollow tip/tail core.

 

whiteroom's idea of adding weight to the tip is interesting. You'd have to destroy a pair of Kastles to achieve this however - cut out the translucent hollow tip section and weigh it, then weigh a section of solid ski of the same are in order to figure how much weight is saved by the hollow section. Could be fun to do if you ever find a pair of trashed Kastles to serve as the organ donors.

post #10 of 14

I have a Kastle hollow tech cut out, the material that was removed before the plastic window was added. Obviously they vary from model to model but it's about 55g for an MX series ski. No need to ruin anything, just tape three quarters on the tip and go ski.

post #11 of 14

 I recently saw an ad for a Rossignol Soul 7. It is next years model, and as near as I could tell, they had lightened the tips and tails with some form of air filled honeycomb design. Maybe Kastle is just ahead of the curve. Could be in 5 years some form of lightening the swing weight will be common place. 5 years ago would anyone have thought rocker would be so prevalent in so many skis?

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip inderhol View Post

 I recently saw an ad for a Rossignol Soul 7. It is next years model, and as near as I could tell, they had lightened the tips and tails with some form of air filled honeycomb design. Maybe Kastle is just ahead of the curve. Could be in 5 years some form of lightening the swing weight will be common place. 5 years ago would anyone have thought rocker would be so prevalent in so many skis?

As he said...

Here is the link to the new Rossi soul 7

http://www.skinet.com/skiing/photo-gallery/new-rossignol-hotness?cmpid=enews010913&spPodID=030&spMailingID=14040322&spUserID=MzQ3NzMxOTUwMjgS1&spJobID=209998443&spReportId=MjA5OTk4NDQzS0#

post #13 of 14
I own some Kastles. Pure marketing. Like the cutout. Matches my ski jacket. smile.gif
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

I own some Kastles. Pure marketing. Like the cutout. Matches my ski jacket. smile.gif

What? You have holes in your jacket?roflmao.gif

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