EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Problem: as I gain speed moving downhil the left ski tip starts rapidly shaking left-right-left while the right ski remains perfectly stable
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Problem: as I gain speed moving downhil the left ski tip starts rapidly shaking left-right-left while the right ski remains perfectly stable

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

hey,

 

new to the forums. Last year I bought a pair of Atomic blackeye TI 2012 after comparing some and reading alot of good reviews. My goal was to get a good all mountain ski. Now ever since I was on them I noticed that whenever I start moving at a decent speed, regardless of how well groomed the terrain is my left ski tip starts shaking left-right-left rapidly within a 5cm window. It feels very unstable and I'm puzzled how to solve it or what causes it. The right ski never does this and always remains stable. Since you often get off and on your skis again during a typical groomer day and probably swap them alot without realizing I would assume that the problem can't be related to the skis or bindings or else I would have probably noticed the right ski doing the same at some point in time so what could possibly be the cause ? Anyone ?

post #2 of 21

First of all welcome to Epic.

 

Leg strength and confidence.  Just as people are right handed and left handed the same applies for legs. This is likely the main problem.

 

Do more exercises on the weaker leg, Balance and ski on the weaker leg (lift your other ski and turn in both directions, start slowly.  You'll be surprised initially how much more difficult it will be on one leg vs the other).

 

The reason it occurred after you upgraded, is you now likely have a higher performing ski. More sensitive, faster reacting, better edge hold, etc.  Downside is less forgiving to errors in input and because of responsiveness this just makes it worse.  Welcome to performance smile.gif.  Because one side is a little stronger you notice the problem on your weaker side.

 

So in short train the weaker side a little more to make yourself a balanced skier (and better skier).  I still have to work one side a little harder than the other just to remain (at least outwardly) balanced.

post #3 of 21

Profundido, welcome to Epic.

 

You are right, if you switch the skis from one foot to the other and the problem still stays on the left side, it's not just the skis.  But I gather the problem started with the new skis.  I've got some questions for you before others start chiming in with ideas.

 

1.  How many days a season do you ski?

2.  How many years have you been skiing?

3.  What type of terrain do you like to ski? 

2.  Clearly something has changed if this problem did not exist before you bought these skis.  What skis were you on before?  Are these longer or shorter than your old ones?  Do these new skis have a different turn radius?  If you put the two skis side-by-side, are the bindings in the same location?

3.  Did you change anything else besides the skis, such as boots, your technique, the terrain you ski, your speed?

post #4 of 21
I'm probably going to lean toward what oldschool said.

I am going to add another possibility. Your alignment may be off on your left boot which may be causing your ski to track funny. Have a boot fitter look at your stance.

Dennis
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny1969 View Post

Your alignment may be off on your left boot which may be causing your ski to track funny. Have a boot fitter look at your stance.

 

I'm going to second this.

I once had the same problem, wicked chattering on my downhill (left) ski when coming out of a right turn.  No problem with left turns.

 

An Instructor suggested getting my alignment checked, and voila, that was it!  The bootfitter had to plane the bottom of my soles, insert shims at about a 2-degree angle, and attach new soles at the toe and heel.  It looked ugly, but it worked great.

 

The problem was solved, and as an unexpected bonus, it made skating across flats MUCH easier.

So, I say see a bootfitter to confirm or rule out an alignment issue.

post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 

Olschooldskier,

 

 

really ? just to make clear, I'm talking about putting my 2 skies parallel downhill, my weight equally divided over both and just go down fullspeed. Even then this issue is occuring. Does that change your advice ?

post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny1969 View Post

I'm probably going to lean toward what oldschool said.
I am going to add another possibility. Your alignment may be off on your left boot which may be causing your ski to track funny. Have a boot fitter look at your stance.
Dennis

 

This.

post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 

Liquid,

 

 

1.  How many days a season do you ski? about 10 tops

2.  How many years have you been skiing? 5th year

3.  What type of terrain do you like to ski? All pistes and avalanche secured off-piste we can find, I usually ski in France. Last visit was between christmas and newyear in Tignes. We did basically the whole map area including the men and women's olympic pistes, le Sache and then the whole off piste valley run that starts to the left of Le Sache's starting point. The visit before was Alpe D'huez twice were we also did the every groomer including "le tunnel"

2.  Clearly something has changed if this problem did not exist before you bought these skis.  What skis were you on before?  Are these longer or shorter than your old ones?  Do these new skis have a different turn radius?  Before I had been renting different skis every year but always at least 70%piste. 1 specific pair I can remember were Salomon Enduro's. If you put the two skis side-by-side, are the bindings in the same location? Will check that actually

3.  Did you change anything else besides the skis, such as boots, your technique, the terrain you ski, your speed? I did have a boot fitting of the left boot because it was too narrow. My technique is not a real difference I think and neither is the weather because I've had all weather and terrain conditions already with these ski's. From steep icy bump slopes through a forest to a crisp clear fresh snow valley although on fresh snow this issue doesn't really happen or is noticeable because the skis are more stuck in the snow. It's clearest when coming down a near perfect groomer. The left ski starts shaking superfast as if leading it's own life. it feels almost as if the ski is not fixed to the boot because no matter how still and firm I hold my foot the ski tip shakes rapidly. I do have the feeling however of being firmly locked into my boot. Intuitively I would say it's like the transition of the boot through the binding onto the ski is the weak link

post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 

very interesting, perhaps the bootfitting I had last year to solve the pain problem caused this in the first place ? Now that I come to think of it it was the left boot


Edited by profundido - 1/8/13 at 7:13am
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny1969 View Post

I'm probably going to lean toward what oldschool said.
I am going to add another possibility. Your alignment may be off on your left boot which may be causing your ski to track funny. Have a boot fitter look at your stance.
Dennis


I also agree to look here next..

post #11 of 21

another thing you can try yourself:

   ski straight

   left foot only

 

Do you track straight?

 

That might provide a clue on stance/alignment

post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 

thx for all your fast and resourceful responses. I had no idea a boot could cause this and that there was such a thing as "boot alignment". Based on your advice I will:

 

1. Go try out 1 leg straight skiing on both sides one after another to determine as good as possible what it feels like and how I can 100% for sure force this shaking behaviour

2. Have a bootfitter look at the alignment of the left boot

3. Go back on ice and try to force it again and see if it's fixed or changed

 

also, since the bootfitting of the left boot happened around the same time as getting the new skis in between 2 skis visits I probably have been looking wrongfully at the skis as the possible cause while being unaware that actually a boot can cause this so thx for the insight

post #13 of 21
Best option: search for a good instructor in your area and get an assessment of your technique and your equipment setup. It sounds likely to be an alignment issue, as others have suggested, but alignment issues can stem from many things, and can (do) affect your movements. You could have a leg length discrepancy, or a simple canting need, or a strength-based asymmetry, or an over-pronation or over-supination issue. Or it could be simply that you move differently right and left (which can affect even a straight run). A good instructor will be able to sort these things out and recommend a good boot fitter (goes way beyond just comfort!) if needed.

Second-best option: find someone to shoot some good video of you doing both turns and straight runs, from various viewing angles (front, back, side). Post the video here, and see what EpicSki's members--representing a broad range of expertise (and lack thereof)--have to say.

If it is an equipment setup issue, which seems likely, that video can be helpful for the boot fitter as well. You might also include some clips of yourself doing traverses in both directions, standing on both feet and on just one, as well as clean-carved "uphill arcs" (balance on your edges and carve back uphill from a shallow traverse)--again, both directions, and on both feet and on one foot. Add some one-footed linked "railroad tracks" on a gentle run or cat-track. All of these things can help someone with a good eye assess your movements, alignment, and symmetry. Don't worry if you can't do some of these things "perfectly," by the way--you probably can't, given the issues you've described. Finding out exactly why not is the important question.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #14 of 21

These two are solid.

The point where good technique and proper equipment set up come together. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny1969 View Post

I'm probably going to lean toward what oldschool said.
I am going to add another possibility. Your alignment may be off on your left boot which may be causing your ski to track funny. Have a boot fitter look at your stance.
Dennis

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Best option: search for a good instructor in your area and get an assessment of your technique and your equipment setup. It sounds likely to be an alignment issue, as others have suggested, but alignment issues can stem from many things, and can (do) affect your movements. You could have a leg length discrepancy, or a simple canting need, or a strength-based asymmetry, or an over-pronation or over-supination issue. Or it could be simply that you move differently right and left (which can affect even a straight run). A good instructor will be able to sort these things out and recommend a good boot fitter (goes way beyond just comfort!) if needed.
Second-best option: find someone to shoot some good video of you doing both turns and straight runs, from various viewing angles (front, back, side). Post the video here, and see what EpicSki's members--representing a broad range of expertise (and lack thereof)--have to say.
If it is an equipment setup issue, which seems likely, that video can be helpful for the boot fitter as well. You might also include some clips of yourself doing traverses in both directions, standing on both feet and on just one, as well as clean-carved "uphill arcs" (balance on your edges and carve back uphill from a shallow traverse)--again, both directions, and on both feet and on one foot. Add some one-footed linked "railroad tracks" on a gentle run or cat-track. All of these things can help someone with a good eye assess your movements, alignment, and symmetry. Don't worry if you can't do some of these things "perfectly," by the way--you probably can't, given the issues you've described. Finding out exactly why not is the important question.
Good luck!
Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #15 of 21

Profundido,

 

No it doesn't change what I said.  I'd steer towards the better responsiveness of the new skis, showing up strength, balance issues and body dominance issues (ie left handed or right handed in this case legs/feet)

 

Again you said even with skis switch it still shows up, so it's not ski setup (one better than the other).

 

Boots, maybe (not a boot expert so I'll bow out of those comments).  Getting someone else to review whats happening is definitely a good idea and will give you a better idea of which direction to go.  Video is best because you can review it and also show (boot fitters if required whats happening) as we all occasional say something that is understood as something else.

 

I'm glad Bob Barnes piped in as he has a way of giving among best all around advise with all options clearly stated (I guess experience means something biggrin.gif). 

 

Finally, please share the end result and the fix(s) we all learn by what is shared.

 

Have fun,

 

G

post #16 of 21

Profundido,

Many if not all the responders are from USA, where bootfitters are sometimes willing to mess with your alignment.  I've heard that this is not done usually in Europe.  Technically, adjusting your alighment means the bootfitter will change the way the boot sole, at the outside bottom of the boot, is tilted.  I think that's what I've heard European bootfitters won't do.  Maybe it's an insurance issue.  Or maybe I've heard wrong.

 

But there are other things that need to be looked at before doing permanent changes to the plastic bootsoles at the bottom of your boots.  Let's talk about those.

 

--How snug are your boots, especially the left one?  Do the walls of the boot cradle your foot snugly all around?  The boot should be pressing against your foot 100% of the time in front of the toes, all around the heel and ankle, along both sides of your foot at its bottom, and the boot should even be pressing down on the top of your foot.  It should be a nice, tight fit.  Does the cuff hug your lower leg all the way around it, from the bottom at the ankle all the way up to the top of the boot?  It should.  The boots need to be good and snug and firmly hugging your foot in all theses places or you might need new boots a size or two smaller.  

     Boots can always be made larger by your bootfitter.  He/she can grind out a hollow area in the plastic where your foot is uncomfortably cramped.  But too-big boots can't effectively be made smaller.  A good fit is the first thing you need to get.  Everything else comes after.  

 

--If the boots fit, do you have custom footbeds inside your boots?  If not, that might help.   Your bootfitter will need to check the mechanics of your feet before making the footbeds; then he/she will make the footbeds to support your foot accordingly.  

 

--If the boots fit, have you had the cuffs adjusted to align with your shins?  Most boots offer a slight amount of side-to-side adjustment so that the cuffs are tilted at the same angle as your lower leg.  This can make a big difference.

 

Good luck with your boot issues.  This is the most important part of your gear.  Getting them fixed comes first before messing with skis or even lessons.  Poorly fitted boots will derail the best skis and the most informative lessons.  Good boots that meet your anatomy's needs are pure delight, but difficult to come by.  Keep messing with the boots until they are right.   

post #17 of 21
Many good suggestions but it could also be as simple as your stance/balance. Modern skis want you to stand right over the arch of your foot, not on the ball of the foot. Too much pressure forward can make the tip hooky and grabby.

Feel where your weight is when having trouble.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by profundido View Post
 

hey,

 

new to the forums. Last year I bought a pair of Atomic blackeye TI 2012 after comparing some and reading alot of good reviews. My goal was to get a good all mountain ski. Now ever since I was on them I noticed that whenever I start moving at a decent speed, regardless of how well groomed the terrain is my left ski tip starts shaking left-right-left rapidly within a 5cm window. It feels very unstable and I'm puzzled how to solve it or what causes it. The right ski never does this and always remains stable. Since you often get off and on your skis again during a typical groomer day and probably swap them alot without realizing I would assume that the problem can't be related to the skis or bindings or else I would have probably noticed the right ski doing the same at some point in time so what could possibly be the cause ? Anyone ?


If you don't have your knee hard against the boot in the straight part-and then into the turn and then out the ski vibrates terribly-It took me a little while to fix that-But then again if you look at my other threads I have my own problems !

post #19 of 21
Tend to go with Bob Barnes. Would only ask an additional question: Does this shaking occur the first run you take, or do you notice it after a few, or after lunch?
post #20 of 21

Just noting that this is a three year old thread and the OP hasn't posted since the day it was started. So don't expect a response.

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 

Just noting that this is a three year old thread and the OP hasn't posted since the day it was started. So don't expect a response.


Maybe a little too much shaking in the wrong place and they never made it back!!!

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