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Adding Toe riser after heel lifts?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

So, I have done a bunch of searching and there are many discussions regarding binding delta, toe lifts, etc.  Many of those threads also have broken links (as they are old) and I wasn't necessarily able to get an answer.

 

I have new boots (Rossi Experience Sensor 130LV-same as Lange RX) which are much more upright than my previous boots.  Due to limited dorsiflexion and poor flexibility I have an 11mm heel lift in the boots.  All canting and fit issues are done.

 

I spent yesterday groomer zooming on my MX78's.  They are the only skis I have that carry over from last year. I am finding that the so called "sweet spot" feels like it is now rearward on my boots instead of under the BOF. In order to power through a carve, I have to sit back.

 

Based on my reading, I think I need to add some lift under the toe piece of the bindings. Let me know if this is wrong thinking.

 

Is there a way to determine how much lift is needed?  I know I can experiment with something stuffed between the boot and AFD plate, but I can't imagine i could fit more than a mm or 2 in there. I have read of people needing 5+mm of lift which would not be a quick experiment.

 

Not to totally confuse the situation, but I also downsized from a 327bsl to a 316bsl and only adjusted the heel piece, so the boot center is now a few mm off too.

post #2 of 14

Here is what I read:

 

You moved your boot heel 11 mm forward and are now wondering why you have to "sit back" to find the sweet spot.

 

Sounds to me like you just need a binding remount.

post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Here is what I read:

 

You moved your boot heel 11 mm forward and are now wondering why you have to "sit back" to find the sweet spot.

 

Sounds to me like you just need a binding remount.

Actully only would move 1/2 that amount since only int heel piece moved.  I have changed boot sizes through the years before without noticing this difference.  I'm more concerned with the 11mm heel lift in the boot combined with the upright stance. (Both of which were recommended due to lack of dorsifexion)

post #4 of 14

can you quantify your ankle ROM. 11mm of heel lift is a lot of lift.

 

is your ankle locked up? or just a little limited in it's ROM?

 

jim

post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

Actully only would move 1/2 that amount since only int heel piece moved.

 

Sorry, I don't understand.    If  the toepiece stayed exactly where it was, and the boot is 11mm shorter, then the boot spine moved forward 11 mm.   

post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

can you quantify your ankle ROM. 11mm of heel lift is a lot of lift.

 

is your ankle locked up? or just a little limited in it's ROM?

 

jim

Jim, Not sure how to quantify that.  What is usually measured?  I do know that without using my body weight, I can not bend my ankle up or down at all, only left or right.  Can't wiggle my toes either...anyway let me know how this is usually measured.  Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

Sorry, I don't understand.    If  the toepiece stayed exactly where it was, and the boot is 11mm shorter, then the boot spine moved forward 11 mm.   

If you look at the where the centerline of the boot was compared to where it is now. The rear spine is 11mm forward, but the centerline is now off by 5.5mm. I'm just not sure a 5.5mm mismount would be as noticeable as this is.

post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post. The rear spine is 11mm forward, but the centerline is now off by 5.5mm. I'm just not sure a 5.5mm mismount would be as noticeable as this is.

 

The rear spine is the body's reference point for "back seat" vs. "not back seat".     

 

In a large boot with bad heel hold we can't even feel back seating, not until our toes start hurting.     In a large boot with good heel hold our feet centers are behind the boot centerline.

post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

Based on my reading, I think I need to add some lift under the toe piece of the bindings. Let me know if this is wrong thinking.

 

I think that sounds backwards. Adding toelift usually makes it easier to feel the front of the ski. What binding do you have, KTi? I have a couple of lifter plates that I can insert (carefully) into clients bindings if they (the bindings) allow it to explore delta. You could try that and see what feels better.

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 

I think that sounds backwards. Adding toelift usually makes it easier to feel the front of the ski. What binding do you have, KTi? I have a couple of lifter plates that I can insert (carefully) into clients bindings if they (the bindings) allow it to explore delta. You could try that and see what feels better.

Sounded backwards to me too which is partially why I asked.

 

I have PX12's, not KTi.

post #10 of 14

I am sure that someone who is a binding expert can tell you if the PX binding will accommodate a little extra thickness. If it can, get a set of 3mm lifters and try them. Just carefully place them on the binding as you step in to the binders.

post #11 of 14
Originally Posted by epic View Post

I am sure that someone who is a binding expert can tell you if the PX binding will accommodate a little extra thickness. If it can, get a set of 3mm lifters and try them. Just carefully place them on the binding as you step in to the binders.

OK, now I'm interested.  I am having a version of the same issue.  If lifters work (or make ski feel better), then what?  Ski w/lifters every day?  Make a permanent alteration to boots?  To skis? 
My Looks are rail-mounted, so I can't lift b/w ski and binding.

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post

OK, now I'm interested.  I am having a version of the same issue.  If lifters work (or make ski feel better), then what?  Ski w/lifters every day?  Make a permanent alteration to boots?  To skis? 
My Looks are rail-mounted, so I can't lift b/w ski and binding.

 

The bootfitter screws them onto the bottom of your boots and then routers the lugs to bring them back to DIN.

post #13 of 14

So that makes your boots permanently adjusted to only the offending pair of bindings; is that it?

Seems like a big commitment.

post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post

So that makes your boots permanently adjusted to only the offending pair of bindings; is that it?

Seems like a big commitment.

 

If you only have one offending pair, you're going to want to find a different way - like sell them. I buy my hard snow skis with plates that allow an easy change of delta.

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