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Scream 10 Pilots

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
First things first. I work at a shop that sells Salomon shoes. No skis. Regardless that gives me an opportunity to "pro-deal" ski equipment. That my disclaimer and connection to Salomon.

Been sking 35 years, age 48 , height 6', weight 240. Ski off track when its good, powder, fast groomers, no moguls. For an old fart I ski fast and smooth, but no big air. Don't really know what "official" level I ski at. Just looked at a sight that explained the levels, I'd say very strong 8 to weak 9.

Got the Pilots (193) and took about 15 minutes to mount the bindings. Not the clearest instructions, but I am certainly no binding tech. One caution the toe piece wings didn't wiggle on the boot sides untill I got to the mt.had to use the boarders courtesy tools, took about 2 minutes. From the looks of the binding system you can fiddle with where you want the mid point of you boot to be, maybe a 1/2 inch or more either way.

First day sking was on ok western medium to hard pack. These skis feel heavy, but I did not weigh them. They also feel soft and if turning ease is an indication of softness they are soft, as they turn easy. Over the course of the day I turned up the speed and by the end of the day the skis had more speed in them than I was willing to use. They turn well at slow speeds and quick turns were much easier than my present ski (Salomon 2v superaxe) They also carve well in western snow. I did manage to find some almost ice, and they are not at their best on real hard hardpack (ice).

Over Saturday night it snowed about five inches, and the pilots shined. They blast through piles of snow like an all mt ski should. I had a very enjoyable day with the speeds increasing over the previous day. I chicken out before I reached the speed limit of this ski. For what it is worth my guess is at 45-50 they have seen enough.

Price wise I am not sure about these ski. Rode the lift with someone who said they were on sale for $600. Thats reasonable. $900 at the start of the season was not. I do think this system of binding mount is the future. Can't wait to try them off track, although I prefer more ski width for powder. <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Trouthead (edited January 15, 2001).]</FONT>
post #2 of 45
185lbs geared up
40 yrs old
skied for 30 yrs (missed a few)
Fairly aggressive Adv/Expert Patroller
skied on 203 Rossi 4S's for ten years

I now own a set of 192 Pilots. This is the first pair of shaped skis I have owned. Last year I skied on a pair of 184 Bandits for a day and was surprised at the stability even in the short length. I felt I wanted a little longer.

I have read as much on this ski as I think there is to read and must say that after skiing these sticks I am surprised about the mixed reviews. Some say good cruiser but not quick edge to edge and others the opposite and so the story goes.

I can describe the ski in one word- WOW.

I to got the Pro Deal but couldn't demo before I bought. I skied these things as fast as I could on packed powder with a few bumps and icy spots and they just kept going. What a smooth ski. Some have said it lacks energy. I think they must have been stoned or weak or something. These things tear it up. My stlye of skiing is to rip a few big long archs to get to my "speed zone" and then see how many turns I can make as fast as I can make them. These skiis just kept performing. I felt they were very quick edge to edge. Long fast turns, short quick fast turns down the fall line, medium cruiser turns you name it.
Not much snow yet where I am skiing so I only got a chance at a few medium size bumps on steeper terrain. Haven't ventured off into the glades or unpacked steeper terrain because of the fear factor (new skis no snow) I did hit a few piles of fluff though and they just blasted through.
I did notice I have to change my bump skiing style a little but that's about it. I thought they were great in the bumps. Just not a zipper line screamer.. but these are all mtns.
As far as price goes I think $1295 retail is to high but if you can get them for 600-950 thats about the same as buying skis and bindings by the time you get them mounted.
It's snowin right now so maybe this weekend I can try some fluff.
post #3 of 45
I was skiing yesterday at Cannon, and I had a conversation on the Tram with a guy who had Pilot 10s. He is very dissappointed with them, and explained why. He claims he can feel a torsional flex between his boot and the ski when he tries to put the ski on edge. He said it is very noticable.

It makes sense to me when I look at how the binding system is constructed. And it may explain things that reviewers in this forum have noticed, which seem to boil down to a lack of responsiveness, or an improper response, to forceful input. He was about 200 lb and an aggressive skier.

Look at a simplified diagram of the Pilot binding, and the pin through the ski to which it is attached, as a rectangle. Your boot is the top edge of the rectangle, and the pin is the bottom edge. The first thing you see is that the boot can move from side to side if the corners of the rectangle can flex at all, giving you a parallelogram instead of a rectangle. This probably isn't what this skier felt, but may be detectable as a lack of stability in forceful conditions like speed.

Next take a side view of the rectangle. Unless it is in a vertical plane, it can twist so that one side of the boot can be forced lower than the other side. This would be the torsional flex that the skier feels. Considering the fore and aft adjustability of the Pilot binding, it follows that a simplified rendering of its geometry into a rectangle is unlikely to be in a vertical plane.
post #4 of 45
I took the pilot 10s out for a ride and was amazingly DISSAPOINTED in their extreme pussiness. they never powered up, did not like to be pushed, and just sloshed all over the place. a true wet noodle. they're great for old women who want to cruise and that is about that.

i am also completely against the systems that force the consumer to purchase both bindings and skis. it reduces competition amongst companies and is just the next step to enslave the consumer into buying something he does not want-- what is next, boots? be wary!

but that aside the skis still do suck, and very much so. salomon is not king-god of skiing here folks, never forget that.
post #5 of 45
Okay... someone tell me what everyone means by a ski being a "noodle", "wet noodle" or whatever kind of noodle.
What length did you ski? Whats your weight, ability, style etc. Did the ski have a fresh tune? What were the conditions. How old are you? What are the degrees on the edge? All these things make a difference. I skied mine "out of the box" other than a base soak and wax. After a few more days I may have the edges filed a 1/2 degree. We'll see.

Check out this review : http://www.skinet.com/article/gear.cfm?alias_id=4026

or peterkeelty.com...ski of the year.

I am still amazed at all the extreme reviews on this Pilot ski. You can read mine in the thread. I found that the harder I pushed the ski the more in responded and faster it went.
Another Patroller I ski with had a pair of 186's. Hes a little lighter than me and he says he's still trying to catch up to the thing. He's blown away by them. He skis very fast and aggressive and makes lots and lots of turns.
I just wonder how many people who are knocking this ski really know what they are talking about. Perhaps it requires more of an adjusting of your style/ability that you can handle. If you are the kind of skier who is "locked in " to a certain pattern or rythym of making turns rather than being able to turn on demand no matter what the terrain or the speed than maybe this ski is not for you. I ski fairly aggressivly but always keep my "center of balance". Meaning that I can usually pull out of or initiate a turn either direction any time. I like the feeling of being "light on my feet" as opposed to "balls to the walls get out of my way I'm not ready to turn yet" skiing.

For Orphic to come here after "taking a ride" on a ski and to say that it sucks is really not a fair review. I would caution anyone reading this forum to beleive what orphec whoever has wrote. Take it with a grain of salt and go try the ski for yourself if you can.

As far as "being forced" to buy the bindings and the ski together that's rediculous. No one forces you to do anything. The Pilot is offered as a system. If you don't like em don't by em. Grow up and get over it.

By the way, Orphec is not the "king-god" of skiing either...
post #6 of 45
Thread Starter 
A few things come to mind. (1) I like the pilots, but really don't feel any great need to argue about, "are they great or do they suck" (2) A couple runs in not enough IMHO, (3) we all skied different ski, any chance it is due to quality control, (4) for any review please put your weight, ability level, and age and years of sking, and lastly they are 20 (or more) ski manufactors out there, making who knows how many models of skis, if one particular ski was right for everybody all we would need is one maker, one model, in one length, with one stiffness, and one side cut.

I am somewhat surprised at the vast difference of opinion about pilots. It also is very harsh. Who knows? One last things hope we see more post from Orphic Seth, but I would like to know more about home mountain, age, conditions skied under etc to make some moot sense out of this discusion. Its Friday and I ski JH tommorrow. After 23 season there, I still get excited on friday afternoons.
post #7 of 45
The last thing i want to do is defend myself against AK's assault on my opinion.

Here are my stats:

I am 20yrs old, 155 lbs, 6'1". I don't like to tout my ability or anything else but lets say i can handle any terrain at any speed with comfort. I ride almost 100 days a year, and i am a product tester for an online ski store. I come from Switzerland where I've skied all my life, I raced in high school, and am now completing college in New England. My "quiver" includes: Igneous Mid-Fat Carver 260 stiffness (for sale for those interested) Stockli StormRider and Asteroid, Dynastar Speed SF, Line Dragons.

I demoed the Pilot 10 for the day at a Salomon demo-day at Attitash, thus insuring quality tuning to some degree as I very much doubt Salomon would keep their demos in shitty condition. I took out the 188cm, the longest length they had available.

I am very dissapointed in "AK" that my credibility was not up to snuff, or that my ability was in question because i have an opposing opinion. Here is an excerpt:

"Perhaps it requires more of an adjusting of your style/ability that you can handle. If you are the kind of skier who is "locked in " to a certain pattern or rythym of making turns rather than being able to turn on demand no matter what the terrain or the speed than maybe this ski is not for you."

i found what was obviously implied in the above passage (copied from your post) to be completely unfounded. if you have any question about my ability or would like to see firsthand I would be delighted to show you, email me at orphicseth@yahoo.com and we'll set up a date and time.

I posted my review on the ski and i and my ability was unnecessarily blasted for it. This was, the last time I checked, a place for people to post their opinions on different skis. what i wrote about the Salomon was my unabashed opinion and I will stick to it, every single word. I did not try in the least to start an argument, but rather leave my opinion. I also never stated that people should not try it. If individuals themselves don't try different skis they will not find what is best for them.

As for the dependency that the Pilot system creates (the same binding/ski scenario) on one or two different skis it is no problem. I am concerned about this becoming the wave of the future, where if I want a pair of K2 i'll have to get Markers, if I want some Rossis's i'll have to get rossi bindings, etc etc etc. This paves the way for when every company has aligned itself and the consumer MUST buy all the gear from one company. And yes, I am completely against this.

Also, "AK" I NEVER claimed once that i was KING-GOD of skiing. My reference to Salomon as king-god was in reflection that many people get locked into one company and sometimes cannot see the faults of it nor the benefits of other companies. Salomon, through massive promotional expenses and the wide coverage of its team riders can manage to make people feel as though Salomon is better than any other, no questions asked. For some maybe it is, but that does not mean people cannot benefit from trying other brands.

I'm sorry AK that you must resort to ripping into people who do not agree with the ski of your choice. The salomon pilot 10 may work for you, but it definetely does NOT work for me in the least. just because different websites claim it to be so amazing does not mean that it is. as trouthead said, every ski is different depending on who skis it.

Also "AK" its Orphic Seth not "orphec whoever".

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Orphic Seth (edited January 19, 2001).]</FONT>
post #8 of 45
Orphic Seth
Thanks for the clarification. At least now when someone reads your review they will know where you are coming from. To come out and say "this ski sucks" without elaborating on your style etc. is not a review, it's just a slam.

I wasn't blasting you. Sorry if I came across that way. I was actually writing in general terms. I guess I should have used "they " or " them" instead of "you" and "yours". You aren't the only one who has blasted the Pilot and called it a noodle. By the way, I don't take it personal. Who knows, by the end of the season I may be singing a different tune about this ski. But for me, with my style so far so good.

One other thing for me as I wrote in a previous post. I do not have the luxury to demo skis where I live. (Fairbanks AK) Maybe if I would have been able to ski the ModXPro, BanditXX, XScream Series, Pilot back to back I would feel different.

I have just tried to share my experiences and opinion as accurately as I can for the benefit of all who read these posts. I am gratefull for all that I have gleened here from others.

I am trying to get an idea why the opinions of this ski seem to be so varied. It seems that people either love it or hate it. It doesn't seem to be that way with other skis. The opinions seem to vary the same way at other forums also.

I think sking style has a lot more to do with it when skiing the Pilots than other skis. Just my humble opinion at this point. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I described the way I ski so people can get an idea of why I like it. I am not trying to blast you or anyone elses sking style or taste. You know what they say "The best skier is the one with the biggest smile".

By the way... Alyeska Resort- Girdwood Alaska Feb 22nd -25th. NSP Alaska Division PowderBlast.


<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by AK (edited January 19, 2001).]</FONT>
post #9 of 45
and thank for your clarifaction, no worries and no hard feelings!

won't be able to take you up on your offer, because on feb. 24th i'll be at the IFSA big-mtn. comp at jay peak.

ride hard
post #10 of 45
I'm with you on the Pilots, why the varied reviews?
Just saw your post about JH. Ever ski with Tommy Moe? Just curious. He's from Alaska you know. I think he first started skiing in my home town of Whitefish Mt. Big Mountain. Sure would like to go to Jackson someday. When I lived in Rock Springs in 1981 the closest resort Pinedale. Far cry from JH.
It's friday in Alaska too but I'm home sick with the creeping crud. No sking this weekend. Still hurtin for snow anyway, oh well.

post #11 of 45
Gonzostrike - have you skied the pilot 10?
post #12 of 45
Gonzo, this is my last post ever on the Pilot. I just want to debunk your little formula above.

As far as 1 and 3 go, it's not even an issue with me. I skied on fats when they were considered "uncool". Same with shaped skis. I'm even thinking about maybe picking up a pair of super slaloms, and you wouldn't believe the amount of sh*t I'm going to take from my friends if I do. Screw image, I use what works for my needs.

For #2, I do like skiing at high speeds in off piste conditions, but I didn't bash the Pilot because it couldn't do that. I wouldn't feel comfortable maching on a MOD X or 9.22 either, yet I think those two skis are great. More on this below...

As far as #4 goes, you ignored the point I made in an earlier post. I like a stiffer ski, BUT, I didn't bash the Pilot because it wasn't stiff. Compare the Pilot10 to something like an Atomic 9.22. The 9.22 is also a soft ski, but it skis wonderfully. It also holds an edge on hardpack much better than the Pilot despite its soft nature. For a soft ski, frankly, the Pilot just doesn't even carve that well. Try it back to back with a 9.22 and tell me what you prefer. I didn't "dis" it just because it was soft, it just doesn't perform very well.

MY POINT in those earlier posts was that the Pilot10 doesn't even hang with other softer skis. Something like a 9.22 or MOD X is cheaper than the Pilot, and performs BETTER. Notice in that earlier post I used the MOD X and Scream Series for my comparisons, and not stiff skis. I wasn't saying you could get a stiffer ski for cheaper prices, I was trying to explain that you could buy a similarly flexing ski (MOD X) for much less than a Pilot10, and gain performance.

Instead, all you took from my long ass post was that I hate soft skis, and since the Pilot10 is softer, that must be why I disliked it. Wrong!
post #13 of 45
Wow...sounds like the new Pilots have become the lastest controversy since say... plastic boots or metal edges or even that "fad" called snowboarding.

post #14 of 45
I have a pair of Pilot 10s 192cm. I like the ski in most conditions but I think it's shortcoming is on hardpack and ice. What I'm thinking is that most race skis have plates, lifters, etc. underfoot which stiffens the ski in that area and allows the racer to at least get that part of the ski to hold on ice (ever watch the tips and tails in slo-mo in world cup events). The idea that the Pilot is supposed to flex underfoot might be part of the problem of people complaining that the ski doesn't hold on ice or feels soft. Any thoughts?
post #15 of 45
I think so.

post #16 of 45
Because of our recent local weather (warm then cold and no new snow) I should have a chance to ski my 192's on some hardpack and ice next weekend. I will definitly be checking this out. I have not had the edges touched. Anyone tried 1/2 bottom 11/2 side bevel? My local shop is recommending that or even 2 side bevel on most skis.
post #17 of 45
Ak, I use a 1/2 degree base and 2 degrees on the side. Just curious but look at your edges and see if one side sticks out more than the other. This can effect tuning on machines.
post #18 of 45
Thread Starter 
I went sking this weekend on the pilots, and tried to be more discerning in my opinion about their edge hold. Sunday morning at JH was a very smooth not too crowded groomer day. At this point in the season I think I am sking as fast as I ever do and a number of times both running straight and in turns I looked down at the tips to see what they were up to. Each time they seemed to be bouncing and fluttering but the hold seemed to still be there.

There is no doubt IMHO that the pilot is not at it best on very hard snow. Thats great because neither am I. After this weekend I would catagorically state that they do not hold on hard snow as well as my old Rossi excess's. I usually ski with a friend who is just a touch slower than I in fast cruising conditions. With me on the pilots he is a little bit faster. So pilots don't hold as well on hard snow.

I really think there is somewhat of a generational/racer gap here, with the opinions about this ski. There is no doubt in my mind that I do not ski like a 20 year old ex or present racer. Not on my best day. I can at least take solace in the fact that for almost 50 it is a rare day that I see other old farts sking the places I do. Regardless I would like to be able to ski like a 20 year old racer. IT AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN.

Anyhow the last info I have (rather than opinion) is that I rode the Gondo with a Salomon sponsers skier. He was on Pocket Rockets, and said there will be a revised (wood core) stiffer pilot next year, along with some changes to the off track skis.

Thanks for telling the board about yourself.Your opinions make sense in light of your sking experience. (at least to me they do)

No I never get to ski with Tommy Moe, but for some reason Billy Kidd was at JH this Sunday.

Last word. Also rode the Gondo with some younger skiers from Maryland. One worked in a shop and said " we sell a lot of pilots to middle aged men" After a friendly f-u my response was it is still fun to ski and get old, and hopefully all twenty years olds with supper knees and in great shape will be lucky enough to get old, fatter, and still ski. It really is not bad at all.
post #19 of 45
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the info on your age style etc. Being 20 and an ex racer (or present racer) sking the east tells us a lot about where your opinion is coming from.

However "they're great for old women who want to cruise and that is about that" is certainly a statement of lucky youth. I'd trade money wisdom or any thing else for youth, even my good looks.

Rode the Gondo at JH with some younger 20 something skiers, one of who worked in a ski shop that had sold a number of pilots. He said "we seems to sell a lot of them to middle aged men" After a friendly f-u we did discuss the facts that getting older, slower, fatter, etc. is not as bad as it may seem to be.

I did ski my pilots once again this weekend and looked for some very hard groomed snow to see about edge hold. Found some places to pretty much max out the speed, and was able to look at the tips both in transition and in the turn. Tips were moving but the edge hold seemed good. Not as good as my Rossi excess's and not as good as my partner's Rossi 9.3 Vipers. I really, at age 48 probably don't need more edge hold for more speed. I can't bring myself to wear a helmet.

I varied the radius of the turns and my opinion is that shallow turns rather than wide turns are what this ski likes. I did have my friend look at my tracks where I thought I was washing out and they were still pretty clean tracks. So I don't know what is really going on. Could this ski just feel funny (different).

I'd really like to try some of the other skis out there like Mod-x and some of the Atomics, but since I do pro-deal the other brands are not ever going to be a ski I'd buy.

No I don't get to ski with Tommy Moe, and have never even seen him at the area.
I did see of all people Billy Kidd on Sunday morning. Cowboy hat and all.

Pilots are certainly a ski that generates strong opinions. I rode with a Salomon sponsered skier on Sat. who was on pocket rockets, and he said that next years pilots would be wood cored and stiffer. I would guess that is were it has to head. Anyhow maybe we willget a pile of snow and I'll be able to give an opinion about fast GS turns in the deep stuff.
post #20 of 45
Hey Trouthead, Don't let the bouncy tips fool you, what counts is what's going on under the boot. I have a pair of Volant SuperKarves and when I first skied them I noticed the same thing and panicked. How can a ski hold well when the tips are flapping all over the place?

Well, the simple answer I found is that as long as the middle of the ski is stable, I'm good to go. Yeah, my tips flap around at speed, but the skis do hold well on hardpack.
post #21 of 45
Thread Starter 
Wrote two long post on this topic that I thought failed to post. They finally did post. Hope my opinions were consistant.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Trouthead (edited January 22, 2001).]</FONT>
post #22 of 45
Get any snow at the Bowl yet? I don't know if you remember me but I wrote to you in an earlier post. I asked you to take a few runs for me. I'm there in spirit on my 192 Pilots ripping the West Bowls and Ridge and the Griz!!! I'm from Missoula and learned how to ski at the bowl in the early seventys. Lived there in the eightys and moved here to Alaska in 91. As a matter of fact there are actually three other guys I ski with on my local Patrol here that are old Snow Bowlers... small world.

I agree with totally about ability and sking style when it comes to skis. Afterall, like Trouthead said if we all skied the same we would only need one ski, one length, one shape, one stiffness etc. Just because someone doesn't care for the way a ski handles a certain type of terrain for them doesn't mean it's a bad ski. That's why it is important when posting a review to give all the pertinant info. With that in mind I'll say this again:

I'm still surprised at the mixed reviews for the Pilot and think personally that ability/style may even make a bigger difference with this ski. It's just my theory but I haven't been able to come up with any other good reason yet. That's not to say that if someone dosen't like this ski and I do it makes them a bad skier. Just a different type of skier.

Granted, some skis, because of their design are going to perform better on certain types of terrain, but to have one review say that the ski is a "superior carver" on hard pack and another review says the opposite is perplexing. I've read the same thing regarding bumps with this ski. Totally opposite ends of the spectrum.

Could the geometry of this ski combined with the Pilot system make it feel that much different to different types of skiers? Even more so than "old school" bindings? (had to throw the old school thing in for fun)

Still waitin for more snow...

post #23 of 45
I skied the very first version in a 186cm, these were the green ones. Fun ski, shined in deep stuff, no stable enough for my frame (6'1", 190lbs). Loved in in the heavy steeps and the turned quick, but beyond that overall performance was lacking.
Skied the production model wich was to be improved. 192cm this time, Fun ski. Easy initiation, smooth release. Was not about to kick or fight, the ski does what you ask of it.
This is a very good ski. Would I buy or own a pair? NO. It is not built for my type of skiing or performance requirments.
I would recommend this ski to any advanced skier looking to improve or even a non-agro aggressive expert. THis ski is designed to make the rough stuff easier and it delivers on it's promise. Carves nice, stable on the groomers at speed, gets a little kicked around in the crud at hi-speed however. That is why I do not rate it as high as other skis.
ANyway this ski kicks like every other salomon, not MY personel favorite but a great choice for many types of riders.

....there are no bad skis made, only skis that better suit one skiing style over another.....
post #24 of 45
Gonz, I hope you do get to ski the Pilot. I would be interested in reading about your experience. I am selling mine not because I dislike them, but because I like the Series better. My real issue with the Pilot was the grip underfoot on hard to icy snow. It's not a problem with the Series but it was with the Pilot. I tried different tunes on the Pilot and it was better but still not what I wanted. I really feel Salomon will nail this concept in the near future and produce a version of the Pilot for aggressive advanced and expert skiers.
post #25 of 45
Just thought I'd add my .02. Just got back from 8 days at Whistler; skied my Pilot 10s the whole time. Hard snow the first 5 days; 4-8 inches new after that. These skis handled everything well, including heavy, crusty snow in the bowls, but I find that the smoother you ski them, the better they like it. They don't respond well to being muscled, but really click if you're silky. They are very quick edge to edge for a mid-fat, and absolutely scream in long, fast arcs. Diferent strokes for different folks, but so far, they have not let me down in any conditions. Enjoy!
post #26 of 45

Maybe there is some truth to my theory (see my above posts).

Mike_M says "They don't respond well to being muscled, but really click if you're silky. "

Maybe these skis are a little more fickle when it comes to style.

post #27 of 45
AK, I think you may be right about how the Pilot 10 is skied making a huge difference in the perception of it.I demoed it in 192 and found that if I did not push it, but let the ski do most of the work rather than forcing it, it was a fun ride. I don't think it has the edge grip on hardpack that my G31's have but that may have to do with how I ski also.
post #28 of 45
Be smooth. Let the ski work. Just go along for the ride.

post #29 of 45
jd, I never liked riding on the back of a motorcycle when someone else drove. I want to ride it hard, give it the gas, and control the size of the turns.
post #30 of 45
I don't know why you guys continue to try to trump up a mediocre ski. Simply put, the Pilot10 has limitations. If those limitations don't bother you, then go for it and don't look back. If it works for you, great. However, if you're just trying to justify your purchase, then maybe this is a good lesson to everyone on the value of demoing skis before buying.

Is the Pilot10 a bad ski? Nope, its just mediocre. Only reason why its drawing so much flak from me and others is because a mediocre ski shouldn't retail for well over 1 grand. If the price and hype wasn't so astronomical, the ski simply wouldn't be getting all this attention. It would be like the K2 MOD 7/8. A good ski for intermediate and advanced skiers, but nothing to really get excited about.
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