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Replacement for my Mantras

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

I am dreading doing it, I love these skis so much, but both tails are delaminating and I know sooner or later I will have to get new skis. I came to this forum back in December of 2006 and got excellent advice when I was considering these skis. I bought them and have never looked back. I have the red ones, must have been the 2006/2007 model since I got them in Dec of 2006. (I am pretty certain they are 170's - I'll have to research my old posts)

 

My question, which may not be answerable, is what ski currently on the market skis the most like this model? This ski is stable (except on extreme hard pack where is chatters a bit and has the sound of a snowboard bearing down on me) and quick, predictable in crud and powder, and fast on the groomers. Everything I wanted.

 

Have friends who like their Prophet Lines (I think they are 98's) and claim they are reviewed like the mantras, but I are they reviewed like MY year Mantras? Have the Mantras changed a lot? If not, I could just reup. But my bet is they have.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Oh...expert skier, skiing since I was 3, ski mainly in the Cascades at Stevens and Mission, I am old (closing in on 60) and a woman but still outski most younger women (and a lot of men for that matter) on the mountain. The only thing that age and my knees has affected with regard to my skiing is I avoid all but the softest bumps like the plague. Other than that, bring it on :-)

 

Thanks in advance

post #2 of 22
Skis have only gotten better since then. What was revolutionary then is old school now. Highly recommend the Blizzard Bonafide which is like today's Mantra but better in literally every way. There's a female specific version too which it sounds like you might not need. Or maybe a Kendo (what the Mantra should have been), an Mx88, Rossi 98, or something of the sort. Since the Mantra 1st gen, nearly every other modern ski in that same class is better, because the Mantra has changed very little, while skis like the Bonafide are in their own class above and beyond now.
post #3 of 22

Every generation of Mantra seems to me that they are very hard snow biased.  The current Line Prophet 98 is the polar opposite.  I have found the P98 to be very forgiving with a better soft snow bias.  If you like the precision feel of a Mantra, stick with it.

 

What has changed over the years is that the Mantra has gotten wider, plus tip rocker was added for the 2012 season.

 

Dennis

post #4 of 22

The new Mantra has slight tip rocker. I was back and forth all year last season between the Mantra and Blizzard Bonafide. I finally chose the Bonafide as it was more lively and a shorter turning radius with tip and tail rocker, but great edge hold. For me the Mantra was slightly better in cut up crud, over all I liked the Bonafide better.

 

Blizzard also makes the Kabookie that is a softer version of the Bonafide (no metal).

post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 

See I really love the way my Mantra's ski, regardless of improvements in the industry. Dennis says precision. And yes, I think that is it, but I have never had an issue with them in soft snow, they ski smooth and easy, while still having a great feel on groomed and packed powder.Unfortunately I often have to ski in crud (or groomers) - although recently we have had some epic powder days that almost made me forget there was any other type of skiing - and these skis fit the bill for me in all conditions (except hard bumps where they really do not shine).

 

So I guess I would like to know how the Blizzards and the others mentioned are an improvement, what have I been missing? Are the rockered skis as positive on hard pack as the older Mantras? The Prophet Lines don't appear to be rockered to me. My friends rave them in powder, but they seem lighter to me and less stable for them on the hard pack. How does the rockered tip on the current Mantra affect its performance?

 

Sorry for all the questions, I have been skiing in ignorant bliss for the past 6 years :-)

post #6 of 22

The current Mantra is quite a bit stiffer than the model you had and in fact, it is the stiffest ski in the 98mm width range. All the 98's have a smallish amount of tip rise with the Bonafide adding a tad bit of tail rise as well. The current Mantra is probably the best of the 98's at high speed stability with the Rossi Ex98 a close second. The Mantra probably the worst of the 98's in flex driven turns in 3-D snow. Probably the closest to your old ski in flex would be a Nordica Enforcer.

 

SJ

post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 

I thought my year was the year they stiffened them up. Are they even stiffer now? Mine are very stable at speed which I appreciate. But I still found them quite forgiving.

 

Looking at the reviews here and elsewhere, the bonafides look attractive.

 

I'll look into the Nordicas too.

post #8 of 22
I think the Bonafides are also super stable at speed--I've had mine up to 50+ mph on hard and icy early season snow and my courage certainly gave out before they did. Even though they have tip and tail rise, because of flip core, when you flex them the entire ski engages tip to tail. Granted, I'm a big heavy guy at 6'4" and 230 lbs, so others' experience on them might be slightly different. I've heard lighter people describe them as being quite stiff, even too stiff. For me they feel rather playful and turny at slow speed (under 30) and then as you crank up the speed and flex them they turn into more of a GS ski. Its mind boggling really... I'd be very curious to see how the brand new Mantra with tip rise and the softer tail compares...
post #9 of 22

List of solid 98's +/- that I and friends ride

 

Rossi Ex98

Mantra, Katana (now German made)

Solomon Sentinel or Shogun

Dynastar Legend Pro (2011, 2010)

Dynastar Cham 97, 107

Bliz Bonafied or Cochise

Rossi SC Pro 112 (new old stock @2010)

 

Don't buy a Line ski fer chr%$&-sakes, not after skiing a Mantra

post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys

Still open to opinions here. But I think I had already figured the Lines might be too light for me. A true all mountain ski is what would work best for me since I want a one-size-fits-all ski for myself. I don't haul around a quiver and I want a ski I can trust on just about any condition. (Like I mentioned, I avoid hard bumps, but I occasionally get lured into them when the top looks quite nice and then well oops there you are in the thick of it. As long as I can pick my way down through them I am fine with skis that don't shine there)

So the Blizzard looks like one I should try to demo, as well as the new Mantra (not sure about a softer tail but I can't say I would know unless I tried them) and a few others mentioned here.

After the holidays, I'll hit a demo day at the mountain.

post #11 of 22
I had the same year Mantras as you did. Loved them. Sold my whole quiver. Lately, I fooled around with some other skis, tried the Rossie ex 98 (liked a lot), Kendos, (Mantras spunky little sister) and the popular Blizzard Cochise, then demoed the new Mantra with the early rise tip. love at first turn. Bought them retail. My default Utah ski when it hasn't snowed recently, but will work fine in powder, as you know. I do keep a couple powder skis around too, for the deep stuff.
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks Mr C.

Good to hear from someone who has compared these two Mantras head to head. Do you notice any difference (subtle or otherwise)?

post #13 of 22
I've got a buddy who just went from a 170 mantra (think 2007) to a 177 Cochise and his first run was all smiles. Better edge grip, better variable turn size/shape, more fun, no speed limit. Or at least that's what he said.

I think you'll find the bonafide or Cochise plenty grippy and torsionally stiff compared to a potentially skied out older mantra... and light years better in powder.
post #14 of 22
The early rise in the tip engages the turn more quickly. You still need to be on them, but they are more forgiving. Give up nothing in burly, dependable feel and stability at speed. Same lively, energetic personality. Only real difference is quicker into the turn.
I had a fun experience the other day. We have the National Ability Center here in PC. I was skiing with friend who is an adaptive skier in a sit ski. He had a friend , a Brit, who set the pace. It was early, the mountain was empty and freshly groomed, and these guys just burned. Im surprised we didn't get our tickets pulled. Turned out the Brit was a race coach and had been on the UK Paralympic Team, with super G his favorite event. Very glad i had the Mantras.
Rock solid. Amazingly, this guy, Talen, was getting into park stuff.. Doing jumps. Up to 50 footers, not quite the 75s yet...on a sit ski.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing in the Rain View Post

Thanks guys

Still open to opinions here. But I think I had already figured the Lines might be too light for me. A true all mountain ski is what would work best for me since I want a one-size-fits-all ski for myself. I don't haul around a quiver and I want a ski I can trust on just about any condition. (Like I mentioned, I avoid hard bumps, but I occasionally get lured into them when the top looks quite nice and then well oops there you are in the thick of it. As long as I can pick my way down through them I am fine with skis that don't shine there)

So the Blizzard looks like one I should try to demo, as well as the new Mantra (not sure about a softer tail but I can't say I would know unless I tried them) and a few others mentioned here.

After the holidays, I'll hit a demo day at the mountain.

 

Don't worry about that part, it's not soft by any stretch. (don't know where you got that idea?) The tail of the '12-13 Mantra is way stiffer than the two that I owned in '05, '07 and is by far the stiffest tail on any similar 98mm ski on the current market. Also don't worry about the Line P-98 being "too light". You don't mention your size but unless you are a huge guy (and you are skiing on very short Mantras so I doubt that) the Line is not too soft or too light. This all comes down to your priorities. If you prioritize stability over everything else.....the Mantra is as good as any and better than most. If your priorities include mixed conditions, bumps, trees, tight spots with soft snow.........then there are better choices.

 

SJ

post #16 of 22

If you have a chance to demo the Bonafide you might also want to try the Cochise or Dakota which is the woman's Cochise. It's a little wider but worth a try especially considering you are in the PNW. My wife likes a burly ski that is very solid under foot with no discernable speed limit yet is manouverable for Fernie's trees and occasional bumps. All last season the only ski she used was the Cochise and was very excited about it's performance.

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle Dave View Post

If you have a chance to demo the Bonafide you might also want to try the Cochise or Dakota which is the woman's Cochise. It's a little wider but worth a try especially considering you are in the PNW. My wife likes a burly ski that is very solid under foot with no discernable speed limit yet is manouverable for Fernie's trees and occasional bumps. All last season the only ski she used was the Cochise and was very excited about it's performance.

Here is my Bonifide/Cochise comparison: I'm 5'8", 215lbs. and at age 64 still an advanced skier but not as hard a charger as I once was. Last season I took a pair of Bonifides out to the side country in untracked snow. It was boot top and since I ski powder old school style, I cranked as many turns as the ski (and my ability) would allow. I then returned to the same spot with a pair of Cochise and laid down a set of tracks right beside the Bonifides tracks.

 

Right away with the Cochise I was up on top of the snow to the point that what was boot top depth on the Bonifides was now ankle deep on the Cochise. I could not crank as many turns and skied the run way faster. The Bonifide is a powerful ski, but the Cochise is a really burly, powerful ski with, I believe, 2 sheets of metal whereas the Bonifide has 1 metal layer.

 

At 98mm wide vs 108mm wide, the Bonifide was the better ski on the groomers that I had to take to get to and from the side country.

post #18 of 22

Dano: I think the Bonafide has 2 full layers of metal, and an additional (aka "half") layer under the the boot for mounting the bindings. 

post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by justruss View Post

Dano: I think the Bonafide has 2 full layers of metal, and an additional (aka "half") layer under the the boot for mounting the bindings. 

 

Both skis share that same 2 1/2 layer build. There is not much difference in flex but of course the 1 cm wider Cochise feels bigger because it is. Also the typical skier will often choose the Cochise in 185 but will often choose the Bone in 180 and that will obviously make a difference too. I think that those two factors comprise the effect of feeling more "burly" when actually the difference is just bigger. A better comparison is the 185 Cochise vs the 187 Bone. To me, the biggest difference in feel between the two comes on firm surfaces or soft compacted conditions and relates to the cambered center of the Bonafide vs the flat (zero camber) of the Cochise. Both are great skis and preference between the two is personal but for my tastes.......I like a bit of camber.

 

SJ

post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 

Both skis share that same 2 1/2 layer build. There is not much difference in flex but of course the 1 cm wider Cochise feels bigger because it is. Also the typical skier will often choose the Cochise in 185 but will often choose the Bone in 180 and that will obviously make a difference too. I think that those two factors comprise the effect of feeling more "burly" when actually the difference is just bigger. A better comparison is the 185 Cochise vs the 187 Bone. To me, the biggest difference in feel between the two comes on firm surfaces or soft compacted conditions and relates to the cambered center of the Bonafide vs the flat (zero camber) of the Cochise. Both are great skis and preference between the two is personal but for my tastes.......I like a bit of camber.

 

SJ

Thanks for the info SJ. I was telling a customer last week, at the shop where I work part time, that the Bonifide that she was demoing had 2 layers of metal and was corrected (incorrected as it turns out) by a full time co-worker that it was the Cochise with 2 metal and the Boni with one layer.

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post

Thanks for the info SJ. I was telling a customer last week, at the shop where I work part time, that the Bonifide that she was demoing had 2 layers of metal and was corrected (incorrected as it turns out) by a full time co-worker that it was the Cochise with 2 metal and the Boni with one layer.

 

You are way in the heck better informed than your full timer counterpart and thus, probably much closer to the mark in your recommendations.

 

SJ

post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 

SJ< sorry, my bad writing. I meant I was not sure about whether I would like the softer tails on some of the other skis since I tend to like the stiffer tails I have. I also like a bit of camber. 170 was recommended for me - a woman at 5'6" - and though at the time I wasn't sure about that length, tending to ski a longer ski, I went with the recommendation (actually I think it ended up being my only choice or I'd have to wait until the next year). But they feel right, so....

 

Not sure how easily I will be able to demo some of these models, but I'll see what I can do. I am not in a hurry. I think my Mantras have a little life in them yet.

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