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2-degree base bevel on women's eastern ski?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
I offered to tune my friend's skis (Head Every Thang). She doesn't do much of any maintenance and the bottom 6 inches or so were rusted after her apartment filled with water from Sandy. We live in the east, so much of the time is on hard snow. She may go west for one trip per year.

I first checked for flatness and they seem fine. I then tried to smooth out the base edge, using a black dmt diamond stone with the sks multi-tune set at 1-degree, but it wasn't really hitting the edge. I marked the edge with marker, and it seems to be beveled at around 2 degrees. Is 2 degrees just too much? I recall her complaining about firm snow/ice last year. Not sure if the tune is holding her back.

Should I just work for now with the 2-degree base and make it as smooth as I can, and then set the side edges to 1 or 2? Will this tune be too loose for hard snow? And should I just tell her to bring the skis to a shop to get ground at a 1-degree base bevel?
post #2 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADKS View Post

I offered to tune my friend's skis (Head Every Thang). She doesn't do much of any maintenance and the bottom 6 inches or so were rusted after her apartment filled with water from Sandy. We live in the east, so much of the time is on hard snow. She may go west for one trip per year.
I first checked for flatness and they seem fine. I then tried to smooth out the base edge, using a black dmt diamond stone with the sks multi-tune set at 1-degree, but it wasn't really hitting the edge. I marked the edge with marker, and it seems to be beveled at around 2 degrees. Is 2 degrees just too much? I recall her complaining about firm snow/ice last year. Not sure if the tune is holding her back.
Should I just work for now with the 2-degree base and make it as smooth as I can, and then set the side edges to 1 or 2? Will this tune be too loose for hard snow? And should I just tell her to bring the skis to a shop to get ground at a 1-degree base bevel?

   Ok.This is an advanced women's frontside ski, so....I'm assuming your friend is a capable carver. If this is indeed the case,  I'm afraid a 2* (base) is just too much.  Ideally you would want to have them re-set at a 1* (or totally flat, if you want to impart a 1* via filing yourself) Follow up with a 2* on the side, so 1&2smile.gif  If she's really aggressive, maybe a 3* side?? If she enjoys hard snow , that is.....

 

  A 2 &2, for instance, is really just a 90*, with the base edge beveled to decrease unintentional "hookiness", but on hard snow, with a competent skier, it's not going to (pardon my phrasing here), "git er done" rolleyes.gif

 

  Hope this helps...

 

 

        zenny

post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Thanks, ZT, that helps very much. She's a good skier, but not what I would call aggressive. She is not a gear head, so I don't know what her thinking was on these skis, but has been complaining about them, always saying that she preferred her old, straighter K2s. Perhaps a better tune would change her tune! She also was talked into a way too stiff race boot, but that's another story.

Just curious, what would a 2* bevel feel like on hard (icy), steep snow? Would the skis tend to slide out and make it scary, making it difficult to set an edge and carve?

And I'm curious how they would have gotten tuned to 2* in the first place.
post #4 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADKS View Post

Thanks, ZT, that helps very much. She's a good skier, but not what I would call aggressive. She is not a gear head, so I don't know what her thinking was on these skis, but has been complaining about them, always saying that she preferred her old, straighter K2s. Perhaps a better tune would change her tune! She also was talked into a way too stiff race boot, but that's another story.
Just curious, what would a 2* bevel feel like on hard (icy), steep snow? Would the skis tend to slide out and make it scary, making it difficult to set an edge and carve?
And I'm curious how they would have gotten tuned to 2* in the first place.

  Well, without going into too much detail--generally, with a lower base bevel (in degrees) a frontside/carving/all mountain-cambered ski will engage sooner with less tipping angle (of the ski). Conversely, with a  higher base bevel, a skier must tip the ski higher on edge before it begins to carve (engage).  So, for instance, a slalom racer will often prefer a .5* (or less in some cases!) because they want a more immediate response. On the other end of the spectrum, a downhiller may desire a 1.5-2* (or maybe more in rare cases) because they may require a more subtle ski feedback. --I would suspect (not sure here, never even touched a pair of Head Every Thangs) that they came with a factory 1* & 2* (base & side) as they are an advanced frontside carver. So, with a 2* base, it may feel like she isn't getting any purchase until she's "laying them over"...especially in a smaller radius turn with lower speeds. 

 

  I don't want to open a much larger can of worms here, but a ski's base bevel can actually grow via heat/ friction, abrasive factors (dirty snow, small pebbles, sticks, branches...you get the idea), over zealous tuning, etc...especially if it's been skied a lot, and on hard eastern snow. 

 

  I would also say something about the new race boots (though bootfitting is NOT my specialty). Many women tend to be "knock kneed"...she may need some canting, or at the least, a cuff alignment. 

 

  Also, I forgot to ask...did you check the base flatness with a true bar? A convex base can "wander"...

    zennysmile.gif


Edited by zentune - 12/14/12 at 10:30pm
post #5 of 8

This is an intermediate ski from 2008.  At 72 mm underfoot it was their "one ski quiver" ski.  Their advanced front side female specific carver (women''s version of the supershape) for that year was the power thang (66 mm)

 

It sounds as if she switched to shaped with this ski and didn't like it.  I'm guessing that someone increased the base bevel to make them hook up less, thinking that would make them more like her old skis.  With the shapely skis, if you try and go straight the sidecut will interact with irregularities in the snow and hunt for turns.  If you try to go dead straight they will wobble to and fro.   The solution to that problem is to keep them either turning left or right, not over bevel the base.  You don't have to turn much, just enough to make one edge interact more than the other.  Even a very slight turn will do.

 

I don't know what K2 she had, but depending on which ones she had, there are a lot of different reasons (and some the same) not to like her new skis.

It could be that these intermediate skis don't have the stability at speed she had before; these skis do not have a high speed limit.

 

So at 2 degrees, she has a ski that is unstable at speed, still wobbles to and fro, is slow to initiate a turn and has less grip to boot.  No wonder she likes her old skis better.  Her new skis need a base grind and base bevel set to 1 degree at the most, and she needs to keep them on edge (right or left edges, so long as it's both right edges and both left edges).

post #6 of 8
Just to chime in and agree. 2 degrees is too much, particularly for east coast skiing. Tuning to .5 degrees is usually the best as it will grow over time as zentune said, so it will end up at 1 degree.

A large base bevel makes it harder to engage the edge, in soft snow it may not be as much of an issue, but on hardpack you really want a 1 degree base bevel.

As you seem to know, the only way to do this is with a stone grind, and even than, be sure you go to a really good tuner, because many shops will stone grind your skis and create base bevels of more than 1 degree.
post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 
Thanks, guys, this is very helpful. I'll recommend a grind to her.
post #8 of 8

2 degrees is too much, but not WAAAAY too much. Like the others said, the ski is going to feel a bit vague through the transition, but it might actually feel pretty nice in terms of not being too grabby or unpredictable for an intermediate skier. Some of my skis have a 1.5 degree base (on purpose). I've skied as much as 5 or 7 degree base and that is where it is getting pretty close to unskiable. 2 degrees really isn't that bad, and I'd think some people could like it.

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