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Review: 191 ON3P Billygoat - 12/13

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

I have reviewed this ski before based on a demo day experience, and that review can be seen in my sig. I have now had a lot more time on this ski in ideal conditions, and decided it was time to update.

 

Product:

Length Tested: 191 cm

Dimensions/Turn Radius:  145/118/128 - 29.2m - 144cm effective edge

Camber : Traditional, Early Rise Tip & Tail w/camber

Binding: STH 14 Driver

Mount point: Suggested

 

Environment & Conditions:

Location of Test:Mt Hood Meadows

Number of Runs:21

Snow Conditions:Powder, cut up powder, wind blown powder, sun baked powder, crud, snow covered groom, ice patches

Demo or Own: Own

 

Tester Info:

Age:38

Height/Weight: 5'9" 220 lbs

Ski Days/Season:60+

Years Skiing:3

Aggressiveness:  Aggressive(Driver)

Current Quiver:185 Line Influence 105, 191 Billygoat, 190 Armada Magic J

Home Area:Mt Hood

Preferred Terrain off-piste, trees

 

First and foremost. Since they first decided to sell ski's to the general public. ON3P has strived to deliver the highest quality, most bombproof skis on the market while staying competetive with the big guys on price points. They have always done well, but I think this year they have really knocked it out of the park. Fit an finish is top notch. Bases are thick, and come with great structure. All skis that leave the factory get a treatment of hot wax, hotbox, and a rotobrush finish.

 

As with all rockered/tapered skis I did an aggressive detune of the shovels, and tails to the contact point, and just a light detune of the cambered portion of the ski.

 

I will be honest in that my first day on these was not a blast. My ski fitness was low, my technique and confidence was not where it needed to be for the terrain I wanted to ski, and I was breaking in some surgically altered legs. Not to mention new boots. I took 2 runs, and put them back in the car wondering if I had made a mistake. In hindsight my biggest mistake was trying to do too much, too fast on the first day of the season with so many new variables.

 

My second day on these was another story all together, with my muscle memory coming back I decide to give them another go. Conditions were soft, and boot/knee deep on favorable aspects. I was skiing with others that have been skiing for years so I knew we would be rallying. Pulling in to a steep pow section the BG's came alive at speed. The large RES shovels, and "pin tail" design allowed for a myriad of turn shapes while maintaining stability at all times. If you drive the ski it will respond like a much shorter ski, but will not get squirelly when you go fast. Float is perfect.

 

I got in about 4-5 more runs of untracked pow on open faces. When the resort started to get tracked out the Billygoats still delivered. Crushing tracked Cascade Concrete at will.

 

One word of note, while being of a more modern "funshape" the 191 BG is still a charger, and if you do not ski it, it WILL ski you. I took the ride a couple of times. And while I wasn't out of control, I sure was not IN control.

 

I finished this day with renewed enthusiasm for this ski.

 

Cut to last weekend. More snow, a little bit colder. Fitness and ski technique way more developed than day one. An all I wanted to do was get back on this ski, and really put it through it's paces.

 

Pow was a no brainer at this point, crud and skier tracked wilted under the shovels of the Billygoat. The ski's were stable in the air, and poppy when I wanted to launch off of bumps. Landings from drops where stable.

 

Time for some tree's and bumps. For a ski that charges so hard the 191 is very responsive in the tree's as long as you keep the speed. It's not as responsive as the first gen BG's, but at this point in the evolution of the design they are not even the same ski. I am not a huge fan of tight tree's, but these were screaming to me to keep going, I had a blast.

 

Bumps were not terrifying, they aren't a bump ski obviously, but they smoothly navigated the bigger ones, and ski'd right over the tops of the little ones.

 

Groom performance was on par with other ski's of this type. In the past the design suffered with hook shovels, and tails that did not inspire confidence. ON3P has got around this with some different design priciples. I cannot explain it better than them, so I'll just paste their description of the ski.

 

 

"In what has proved to be our most elaborate design process to date, the traditional, positive sidecut at the tip of the Billy Goat was turned completely on its head, resulting in ON3P’s Reverse Elliptical Sidecut (RES). Our goal was to create a soft snow ski that maintains the level of maneuverability seen in fully reverse sidecut skis while also providing the stability and edge hold of traditional sidecut shape. The result was a design that, initially, seemed nothing less than ridiculous, but is now one of the most advanced freeride skis on the market. By incorporating RES in the tips with a large, traditional turn radius in the tail, the Billy Goat allows for incredible maneuverability in soft snow, ensuring it remains an exceptional tree ski while maintaining the shape and stability needed to make huge turns at high speed.

 
To provide excellent hardpack performance, RES has been designed to establish a Dynamic Contact Zone (DCZ) in the tips, which allows for the creation of a simulated turn radius with the traditional sidecut tail. This results in a ski with excellent edge hold and hardpack capability while maintaining the key design aspects that maximize soft snow performance. Combined with our elliptical rocker profile, a medium-stiff flex, and top & bottom carbon fiber stringers, the Billy Goat is ready for whatever you can throw at it."

 

I think this is an amazing ski. ON3P has really put a lot of time refining what was once a polarizing ski, in to something that is really remarkable. One person has described it as the love child of the 196 Bodacious, and the 193 Automatic.

 

One a final note. The bamboo core with carbon fiber stringers leads to a ski that is damp, yet poppy. I can definitely distinguish between an ON3P layup, and a more traditional one.

post #2 of 7

I was hoping to ski that this coming weekend.  I tried a Caylor last year, but the snow was sloppy, and the ski felt sloppy too.  It is supposed to snow on Saturday, so hopefully conditions will be good.  I will pair it up with the other skis at the demo and report back! 

 

Edit: they didn't bother showing up at the demo, so no chance!  I skied the Billy Goat a couple of years ago, but it is has been redesigned, right?


Edited by dawgcatching - 12/16/12 at 2:43pm
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

I was hoping to ski that this coming weekend.  I tried a Caylor last year, but the snow was sloppy, and the ski felt sloppy too.  It is supposed to snow on Saturday, so hopefully conditions will be good.  I will pair it up with the other skis at the demo and report back! 

 

Edit: they didn't bother showing up at the demo, so no chance!  I skied the Billy Goat a couple of years ago, but it is has been redesigned, right?


Yah, from what Rowen said they had to make a choice between going to Bend or doing finish work on some models that they already sold out of and had to do a second run of.

 

The Billygoat has been in kind of a continual state of development, probably more than anything else in their lineup. I skied the first years that was a blast in the tree's, and deep pow, but terrifying anywhere else. I owned the second year that while being a great pow ski too was still not very confidence inspiring on the groom. Last year they brought the new design principles in to the new 191 model, but left the 186, and 176 unchanged for the most part. This year all sizes are using what they learned with their work on the 191.

post #4 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


Yah, from what Rowen said they had to make a choice between going to Bend or doing finish work on some models that they already sold out of and had to do a second run of.

 

The Billygoat has been in kind of a continual state of development, probably more than anything else in their lineup. I skied the first years that was a blast in the tree's, and deep pow, but terrifying anywhere else. I owned the second year that while being a great pow ski too was still not very confidence inspiring on the groom. Last year they brought the new design principles in to the new 191 model, but left the 186, and 176 unchanged for the most part. This year all sizes are using what they learned with their work on the 191.

Too bad, it would have been a great day to demo!  I was excited to try it: my impression with the Caylor (which I was told by the kid at the tent was a narrower version of the BG) was that it didn't like chop at the speeds I tend to ski.  Sounds like they figured it out on the new BG though.  Hopefully I can try out a pair sometime later this year.  It will be interesting to see how they ski compared to my BMX118 (183) and Super 7's (188). 

post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

Too bad, it would have been a great day to demo!  I was excited to try it: my impression with the Caylor (which I was told by the kid at the tent was a narrower version of the BG) was that it didn't like chop at the speeds I tend to ski.  Sounds like they figured it out on the new BG though.  Hopefully I can try out a pair sometime later this year.  It will be interesting to see how they ski compared to my BMX118 (183) and Super 7's (188). 


Interesting someone made it sound like the BG and Caylor are at all similar. They are not. The Caylor is a near symetrical Jib/pow ski that is designed to be able to ridden switch, spin off booters, etc. It's also a ton of fun just skiing pow, and can handle the chop to a degree, but the huge shovel can be knocked around. though it probably feels different given our weight difference.

 

the BG is a directional ski, that uses rocker in the tail for maneuverability. The shapes are pretty damn different too. As you can see side by side

 

I personally enjoy them both, but they do different things in different ways.

 

1000

post #6 of 7

 ecimmortal, if you were looking for a resort powder ski, would you add the Caylor or the BG to a 98 mm one ski quiver?

post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliSki View Post

 ecimmortal, if you were looking for a resort powder ski, would you add the Caylor or the BG to a 98 mm one ski quiver?


In the past I would have said Caylor due to just how damn intuitive it was over the BG in the past. But as I have said. The 12/13 BG is a different animal than it's predecessor. Scott from ON3P has mentioned to me that he almost wishes he would have named it something else.

 

I think the BG is a perfect resort pow ski, especially the way the shovels hold up later in the day with variable conditions. I think the ridiculous splay of other similar ski's really hurts them when conditions go bad. The BG has a more low slung ellipitcal rocker that planes, and deflects less.

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