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Time share? Who has it and there opinion's. is it worth it? - Page 2

post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe View Post

Further to my above point is that I have friends that have a timeshare that they got on the cheap...

 

Every year, they scramble to make use of their timeshare through the exchange program.  I know that some of the Disney places they've stayed at could be had for similar prices (or less) than what they're paying in dues.  Other times, they end up at places they wouldn't otherwise want to go to, but they have to use the points.

Maybe your friends are in the wrong network and/or bought the wrong type of timeshare property.

 

The network I'm in, RCI, I have 2 yrs to use my points.

 

I use 2/3 of the points of 1 timeshare that equates to annual fees of $1K. With that I can spend a week in Napa, CA. The resort, which retains ownership of a few units, rents them out through major travel sites like Expedia. To book the same week in the same size room through Expedia, after all the hotel taxes and such, the grand total is just under $3200. Just using this one example my breakeven point will be less than 13 yrs, based on hotel room rates increasing year over year. After that point I will be saving $2200 a yr by owning a timeshare as compared to not owning one.

post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe View Post

Further to my above point is that I have friends that have a timeshare that they got on the cheap...

 

Every year, they scramble to make use of their timeshare through the exchange program.  I know that some of the Disney places they've stayed at could be had for similar prices (or less) than what they're paying in dues.  Other times, they end up at places they wouldn't otherwise want to go to, but they have to use the points.

You may be correct, assuming your investor purchases one week.  If that person invests in multiple weeks or even a quarter share, the results could be different..  Assume three weeks use in the winter for skiing at a top resort(s) would cost $150 - $450 per night (one bedroom, full kitchen, sleeps 6, ski in/ski out/ in-room jacuzzi, etc.).  That comes out to $5,000 in lodging per year.  So if the quarter share costs $100k, the "return" is 5% per year, which isn't terrible assuming rental income from the other weeks at least covers the yearly maintenance costs.  Appreciation?  No way. So you view the investment like a bond and not a stock.  At some point you hope to get  "par" value (if you eventually sell and don't give it to the kids).  There are no problems associated with typical condo ownership either, like fixing plumbing, finding renters, painting, etc. because a management co. does this.  There are also no surprises since you know what you are getting every year.

 

If the OP wants a place to go to every year and if he can buy a week cheaply enough, it could be a good deal assuming he can eventually sell his week for what he paid for it and the yearly maintenance fees and taxes are low enough to give him a decent economic return. It will certainly be convenient going to the same unit.   If  the ongoing fees are too high, his "return" will be lower and as you explain above he may be better investing his money elsewhere.  If the OP pays too much or doesn't expect to use the unit, he may be better off renting every year.

 

One thing that was not mention in any post above is inflation.  We used to have it paying more for vacations every year , and now we don't.  If inflation does come back he time share owner will have the advantage of having his vacation "prepaid."   The maintenance fees will also rise, but so will any rental income.  If the maintenance fees, taxes and reserving requirements are too high from the get go, then inflation will not make the investment better.

post #33 of 53

While I like timeshare (weeks or points) because I've learned how to make use of ours, have to say that if the primary goal is to have a nice condo for skiing in multiple places then I wouldn't recommend taking that route.  VRBO or other one-shot rentals are better, with no long term commitment and less hassle.  However, if the goal is to have a week locked in to make it more likely that a family with a non-skier will have a good time at a ski resort most years then getting a timeshare fixed week on the secondary market is worth considering.  Especially if get one that is actually a resort with activities and amenities of interest, meaning not just a former hotel property.

 

One reason my husband got a timeshare originally was that owning one made him take at least 1-week of vacation when he was a workaholic bachelor.  His first timeshare was in Orlando during off season.  He didn't trade, but would find a friend or two to join him in order not to lose the week or the vacation time.

post #34 of 53
Timeshares suck...they are such a money making racket for the owners it's not even funny. Why do you think the market is flooded with people looking to dump their timeshares at a fraction of the cost?? It's a scam people. There is NO way you could ever cost justify owning one.
post #35 of 53

People,

 

Timeshares are NOT Investment property. However, that is what so many people think it is. That is why so many people are trying to get rid of their timeshares. You will never, ever sell a timeshare for what you paid for it. Many people who bought timeshares thought they would be identical to a normal rental property. When we went into the recession, many people stopped taking big vacations. So these timeshare owners who were just renting out their week couldn't find anyone to rent it, so now they had to come up with the maint fees.

 

You get value out of a timeshare by maximizing it's usage.

 

I would never get a timeshare where I would be locked into a specific week at a specific location every single year. I would prefer to have the flexibility to either go to the same location but a different week or the same week but a different location or even possiblly split that week into 2 long weekends. Finding a timeshare for a specific week at a specific location will be difficult and most likely more expensive than finding a resort that has the best exchange power within your budget. While this is a ski forum. I can't believe that skiing is the only activity or interest in many's lives.

post #36 of 53
Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

You may be correct, assuming your investor purchases one week.  If that person invests in multiple weeks or even a quarter share, the results could be different..  Assume three weeks use in the winter for skiing at a top resort(s) would cost $150 - $450 per night (one bedroom, full kitchen, sleeps 6, ski in/ski out/ in-room jacuzzi, etc.).  That comes out to $5,000 in lodging per year.  So if the quarter share costs $100k, the "return" is 5% per year, which isn't terrible assuming rental income from the other weeks at least covers the yearly maintenance costs.  Appreciation?  No way. So you view the investment like a bond and not a stock.  At some point you hope to get  "par" value (if you eventually sell and don't give it to the kids).  There are no problems associated with typical condo ownership either, like fixing plumbing, finding renters, painting, etc. because a management co. does this.  There are also no surprises since you know what you are getting every year.

If the OP wants a place to go to every year and if he can buy a week cheaply enough, it could be a good deal assuming he can eventually sell his week for what he paid for it and the yearly maintenance fees and taxes are low enough to give him a decent economic return. It will certainly be convenient going to the same unit.   If  the ongoing fees are too high, his "return" will be lower and as you explain above he may be better investing his money elsewhere.  If the OP pays too much or doesn't expect to use the unit, he may be better off renting every year.

One thing that was not mention in any post above is inflation.  We used to have it paying more for vacations every year , and now we don't.  If inflation does come back he time share owner will have the advantage of having his vacation "prepaid."   The maintenance fees will also rise, but so will any rental income.  If the maintenance fees, taxes and reserving requirements are too high from the get go, then inflation will not make the investment better.

You haven't factored in the opportunity cost of the 100k investment. 100k will get you a decent rate of return, especially if the economy heats up And interest rates along with it. Add in a loss at selling time and those pesky fees and it's not worth having to book so far in advance.
post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by voelfgar View Post

People,

 

Timeshares are NOT Investment property. However, that is what so many people think it is. That is why so many people are trying to get rid of their timeshares. You will never, ever sell a timeshare for what you paid for it. Many people who bought timeshares thought they would be identical to a normal rental property. When we went into the recession, many people stopped taking big vacations. So these timeshare owners who were just renting out their week couldn't find anyone to rent it, so now they had to come up with the maint fees.

 

You get value out of a timeshare by maximizing it's usage.

 

I would never get a timeshare where I would be locked into a specific week at a specific location every single year. I would prefer to have the flexibility to either go to the same location but a different week or the same week but a different location or even possiblly split that week into 2 long weekends. Finding a timeshare for a specific week at a specific location will be difficult and most likely more expensive than finding a resort that has the best exchange power within your budget. While this is a ski forum. I can't believe that skiing is the only activity or interest in many's lives.

Gotta agree with the first part - tmieshares are not investment properties, but they can be profitable, and provide a great return if you are smart and look for a deal with low regular maintenance fees, especially if you are the type of person that likes to travel... I bought my Vail timeshare from someone who purchased directly from the resort and just wanted to unload it at a substantial loss. (My Gain, but I searched for that exact type of deal  and the exact week for over a year) My breakeven point for is about 7 years, given the high cost of hotel rooms over the Holidays.  Add in the price of a good home made breakfast every a.m. and throw in a few dinners "in" in the mix and the breakeven might even by sooner.  I've also managed to get additional benefits via discount stays at other resorts through II (or RCI)  Deals and value are there to be had.... If you do a little work... nobody is going to knock on your door and show you how to work the system...

 

As for points vs. fixed week vs. floating week..... It all depends on your situation....I thought the rule for timeshares was to always make sure you will enjoy the week or place that you buy, and then use it to trade and go other places as you like. Given my wife is a teacher,  the only week of guarenteed vacation during the winter is the week between Xmas and New Years.... so the fixed week is something we were looking for and skiing is something we always look forward to each year...

 

I can't understand all the hate for timeshares either - I think its either the fear of the unknown or you just aren't doing it right.

post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by frother99 View Post

My breakeven point for is about 7 years, given the high cost of hotel rooms over the Holidays.  Add in the price of a good home made breakfast every a.m. and throw in a few dinners "in" in the mix and the breakeven might even by sooner.  I've also managed to get additional benefits via discount stays at other resorts through II (or RCI)  Deals and value are there to be had.... If you do a little work... nobody is going to knock on your door and show you how to work the system...

 

 

This isn't the first time someone brought up the "eating in" factor.

 

Do you realize all the places on VRBO.com, Homeaway.com are condos that have kitchens too? 

 

Does your breakeven point calculation count:

  • The money your downpayment could be earning had you invested it elsewhere?  
  • How do your fees compare to the VRBO offerings?  
  • How much you could lose when you sell your property?  

 

How do your "discount" stays at other resorts compare to the VRBO type sites?

post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe View Post

 

This isn't the first time someone brought up the "eating in" factor.

 

Do you realize all the places on VRBO.com, Homeaway.com are condos that have kitchens too? 

 

Does your breakeven point calculation count:

  • The money your downpayment could be earning had you invested it elsewhere?  
  • How do your fees compare to the VRBO offerings?  
  • How much you could lose when you sell your property?  

 

How do your "discount" stays at other resorts compare to the VRBO type sites?

You're still thinking of a timeshare as some sort of long term investment that will appreciate. A timeshare, that is not.

 

Here's a direct comparison, go to Steamboat Springs from March 9th through the 16th staying at the Wyndham in a 2BD 2BA vacation rental condo. In VRBO, the base cost for the lodging is $1285 and does not include taxes. Using my timeshares, and this will vary depending on the property the person owns. My prorated maint fees would be approximately $450. There would be a $150 transaction fee and will include the $99 annual membership fee for a total of $700. That means I will save at least $585(won't include local taxes that could apply or not)

post #40 of 53

LOL Schmoe.... I think my breakpoint does, and now that I looked into VRBO I feel even better about my purchase... If you are a smart enough guy to calculate and worry about that stuff.  I would think you could be smart enough to find a good timeshare deal and get the system to work for you too.  But its a Friday and I'm bored at work so I'll take the bait and play along...

 

  • Given the economy and interest rates the past few years hiding the money equal to the cost of purchase under my mattress may have given me a better return. Looking at the S&P500 (prob best indicator of overall market performance)  S&P500 5 years ago = 1484. S&P 500 today = 1416.  Now I'm sure you are an expert market timer and far surpassed that - but the general "Joe Schmoe's" results would be very similar.

 

  • Looking at VRBO listings for Vail during a holiday week- http://www.vrbo.com/390975  My fee equals a one night stay at this place... and that is comparing a 1 BR to 1 BR. Granted I'm sure there were better deals to had several months ago. Point is good luck finding a place for less than $250-$300 a night that would meet the wife's vacationstay requirements even at the best of deals... Maybe I should recalc my breakeven to be sooner than 7 years

 

 

  • I doubt I would loose much if anything if I ever sold it - I got a great 2nd sale deal and as previously posted would never buy direct - but why would I ever sell when I could rent or trade and easily cover my fees and make a profit?
post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by voelfgar View Post

You're still thinking of a timeshare as some sort of long term investment that will appreciate. A timeshare, that is not.

 

Here's a direct comparison, go to Steamboat Springs from March 9th through the 16th staying at the Wyndham in a 2BD 2BA vacation rental condo. In VRBO, the base cost for the lodging is $1285 and does not include taxes. Using my timeshares, and this will vary depending on the property the person owns. My prorated maint fees would be approximately $450. There would be a $150 transaction fee and will include the $99 annual membership fee for a total of $700. That means I will save at least $585(won't include local taxes that could apply or not)

 

I'm not thinking that it would appreciate... I'm saying it will likely depreciate.  What I'm saying is you could have earned investment income on the money you paid "to get in".  

 

For people who throw down $ on a timeshare, they could instead put it into an investment where the income could be used in your travel budget.  I'm not an expert in finance, but I'm relatively certain that this is what is called opportunity cost.  So in this case, you have to add that to your quote of $700.  Looking at sellmytimesharenow.com it would cost $45K to get into the Wyndham at Steamboat.  Even if you earned a measly 2% on that $45K, you'd get $900/year to travel with (and spend on a VRBO rental).

 

As well, if you own the timeshare for 10 years and it loses $5K when you sell, now you're down an extra $500/year.  So the real cost of the timeshare is

 

  • the original $700 you quoted +
  • the average loss per year of the timeshare (could easily be $500/year)
  • the opportunity cost (in this case a 2% return would net you $900/year)

 

So anyone who buys that timeshare is looking at an annual cost of $2100.

 

All this said, I'm not 100% saying timeshares are bad, I'm just saying that these are the factors that need to be looked at when judging whether "to timeshare" or "not to timeshare".

post #42 of 53

Don't buy a timeshare.......they never ever pencil out....why be locked into one week per year at one resort?  After maintenance fees (astronomical within most timeshares) you have to look at what your costs of ownership are vs renting.  You can always find a vacation rental through various owners lower than what your yearly costs are to "own" a timeshare.  These are not traditional real estate products.  Save your money and wait until you can buy a whole ownership property....

post #43 of 53

no opinion about it, but see that the Hyatt Residence Club in Breck is advertising 75% off on their last remaining inventory.

post #44 of 53

<Time share?  is it worth it?

 

Very likely not.  And the biggest reason is because life changes.

post #45 of 53
There are a boatload of Internet companies whose sole existence is based upon people looking to dump their timeshares...that should tell you something. There are literally thousands of timeshares being dumped on the market each year. It's a loser deal
post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowlowski View Post

Don't buy a timeshare.......they never ever pencil out....why be locked into one week per year at one resort?  After maintenance fees (astronomical within most timeshares) you have to look at what your costs of ownership are vs renting.  You can always find a vacation rental through various owners lower than what your yearly costs are to "own" a timeshare.  These are not traditional real estate products.  Save your money and wait until you can buy a whole ownership property....

That's not true anymore. You can join a network like RCI and you could have access to close to 4,000 resorts worldwide.

post #47 of 53

We have one at the Grand Lodge at Peak 7 in Breck -- a little pricey but we like it.  We especially enjoy the slopeside locker room. Also we save some money since we run up to the room for lunch instead of eating on the mountain.

 

 

1000

 

 

1000

post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe View Post

 

I'm not thinking that it would appreciate... I'm saying it will likely depreciate.  What I'm saying is you could have earned investment income on the money you paid "to get in".  

 

For people who throw down $ on a timeshare, they could instead put it into an investment where the income could be used in your travel budget.  I'm not an expert in finance, but I'm relatively certain that this is what is called opportunity cost.  So in this case, you have to add that to your quote of $700.  Looking at sellmytimesharenow.com it would cost $45K to get into the Wyndham at Steamboat.  Even if you earned a measly 2% on that $45K, you'd get $900/year to travel with (and spend on a VRBO rental).

But who's going to put down $45K? No One. The secondary resell market is so flooded with timeshares that if someone wanted one they could pick one up for practically nothing + closing costs. And since I'm in RCI, I can book a vacation there even though I'm not an owner there. So the timeshare I bought on the secondary market for $2000 including closing costs, etc.. I deposit into RCI and now I can book and stay at the Wyndham in Steamboat but I'm not locked into a specific week at that resort.

 

And don't look at sellmytimesharenow.com, all they do is take the amount the owner wants back after the sale then they figure what selling price would be needed to get that amount to the owner, then they tack on an additional $6K to $10K as their commission. They are hoping some sucker will buy it. Even if it doesn't. The owner has already paid that website a couple of thousand to list it.

 

Oh yeah

post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwestPete View Post

We have one at the Grand Lodge at Peak 7 in Breck -- a little pricey but we like it.  We especially enjoy the slopeside locker room. Also we save some money since we run up to the room for lunch instead of eating on the mountain.

 

 

1000

 

 

1000

Nice Pete,

 

I was looking and I could get into the Cliffs Lodge at Snowbird in SLC with my timeshare

post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by voelfgar View Post

Nice Pete,

 

I was looking and I could get into the Cliffs Lodge at Snowbird in SLC with my timeshare

 

Is it worth the price, probably not, but it feels good to own a little Colorado while stuck in Nebraska.

 

I remember seeing the Cliffs Lodge -- that's the tall one right at the base, isn't it?

 

We were in Whistler a year and a half ago and got suckered into a timeshare tour. That thing was brutal -- took about 2 hours -- felt like we we being badgered into buying one. I kept saying "we don't need another one". Finally our salesperson just gave up and walked out of the room.

post #51 of 53

Yeah those timeshare presentations are brutal. Many people don't realize those salespeople work on 100% commission, so that's big reason why they are very pushy.

 

Not sure, but it says the Cliffs lodge is the only ski in / ski out resort at snowbird. Thinking the big 2 bedroom unit with the 4 person hottub on the patio/balcony would rock.

post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by voelfgar View Post

Yeah those timeshare presentations are brutal. Many people don't realize those salespeople work on 100% commission, so that's big reason why they are very pushy.

 

 

Yeah, I felt like our sales person in Whistler had the attitude that "you can't leave -- you haven't bought one yet". I think she felt we were obligated since she spent her time with us.

 

I did, however, like the people we worked with at the Grand Lodge at Peak 7 in Breckenridge.

post #53 of 53

We got sucked into a presentation one year in the off season at Heavenly about 16-17 years ago. They took us up the gondola to the property for the tour and basically had everybody trapped there. It was very hard sell. My wife is stubborn but she was ready to sign after we were handed off to the final closer guy. I had to talk her down. I should have let her do it. We would have had many trips to Tahoe!

 

The only reason I would buy a timeshare is to 'force' my family to go on more ski vacations.

 

I stumbled on this forum one time. It's basically the EpicSki of timeshares. 10 minutes of reading there is enough to decide if it is for you or not. The regulars there know their stuff. http://tugbbs.com/forums/

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