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What should compensation be for mis-mounted bindings?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hi folks,

 

Looking for advice: I'm an advanced skier, and just bought my first AT set-up this season (I was resort/side-country only until now). I bought my skis brand new (ordered online), but bought dynafit ST vertical bindings from my local ski shop (also brand new), which I had the ski shop mount. When I went to go pick them up, I was informed that they had been mis-mounted too far forward (a few centimeters), and that they will have to be re-mounted. The shop guy assured me that this will not affect the integrity of the ski, as the new holes will be far enough from the first holes to avoid "swiss cheese skis", and that he will actually be able to use two of the 4 heel piece holes that are already drilled (but none of the toe holes I believe).

 

For compensation, they are offering to remount the bindings for free (filling the first round of holes with epoxy), to refund the money I already paid for the mounting ($30) and to do the heat-molding of my boots for free ($20). I feel like this isn't quite enough compensation given that my skis were brand new (K2 Talkbacks), but I'm not sure what I should be asking for? Having never ran into this problem before (my resort skis were always mounted just fine), I'm not sure how much of a problem this is, or how much I should expect in compensation, since I only bought the bindings, and not the skis, from the store? Thoughts? Has this happened to anyone else before, and if so, what did you get for compensation?

 

Thanks!

post #2 of 18

Most will say that you should ask for new skis, since you gave him brand new skis and they messed up! They don't seem to be offering you anything except $20 heat molding service. The mount service should be free and that's not a compensation, they did it wrong, so they have no right to ask you to pay for it. I would say they should offer a comparable ski from their shop and keep yours!

 

Now was there any discussion about where to mount the bindings, or this too forwards is actually based on recommended line?

post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

Thanks for the speedy reply.

 

Nope - there was no convo about where to mount the bindings. They didn't ask me if I wanted them to be more forward or back, and I didn't think to ask (I've always just skied mid-sole). Being new to AT, the recommended line (traditional mid sole mark) works for me (and I have a tendency to lean forward, rather than sit back, so more forward is definitely not a good option for me)! It was the shop who told me that they noticed the bindings were mounted incorrectly by their tech - the bindings had already been removed when I arrived to pick them up.

 

Any thoughts on the effect this will have on my skis? This is really disappointing...I spent a good deal of time researching skis and finally decided on the K2s as the ideal setup for me...I was so excited when they arrived, and the snowline is nice and low and ready to go now. Arg.

 

Thanks!

post #4 of 18

If properly plugged the extra holes would/should have no ill effects on the integrity of the ski or on performance.  However, just knowing that they are there would bug me since I paid for skis without plugged holes.  If not properly plugged, an extra set of holes in front of the toe piece can absolutely impact the integrity of the ski in big bumps.  But, not so much for an A/T ski IMO.  I'd take $100 in store credit minimum for such an error.

post #5 of 18

It really sucks when this happens but it does..............it's rare but it does. Their offer is inadequate. While a second set of holes technically will not affect ski performance, it reduces your resale value. If you make enough noise and complain they may cover another set of skis............. not sure you'll get the skis you want but a good shop will offer a comparable set of skis which may or may not be to your liking............a GREAT shop will order you your skis w/ no hassle................ Good luck!

post #6 of 18

Minimum $5m for pain and suffering.

post #7 of 18

This is a tough one.  I don't mind when its me beating up my new gear, but boy do i get frustrated when its someone else!  

 

That being said I think they did an honorable thing telling you they messed up.  If all the holes are going to be covered by the binding when it has been remounted correctly i am surprised they said a thing.  I know that sounds bad but it happens frequently in shops.  Second i am by no means an Olympic caliber athlete and would not be able to tell you if my one ski had an extra 8+ holes in it i doubt you could either.  I say voice how dis satisfied you are and never go back there.  Grab your setup and use it for  the reason you got it!

 

my .02

 

now if the holes wont be covered..... new skis!

 

 

also been there done that :(

post #8 of 18
New skis because of extra holes that don't affect performance in any way and only affect cosmetics?

Seriously?

Wow. That's a real primadonna perspective.

in 2005 my local shop mis-drilled my new Head Monster 88 that I brought to them for mounting. You could see two of the plugs. They admitted the error, didn't charge for the mount (normally $40), and gave me a $50 credit in the shop. If you ask me, I got the better deal there. From an on-snow performance perspective, the skis don't know that they have extra holes. And I don't buy my skis because of how they look in the lift line or how their topsheets impress others. I buy them because of how they ski. 4 extra holes in the pair didn't affect that performance in any way. Most well-made skis can be drilled several times before they lose structural integrity.

Plenty of people out in the skiing world will have bindings moved forward or back from their first mount point. There's no reason to worry on whether that will damage the skis, as long as the new mount isn't basically shadowing the old mount (drililng new holes immediately adjacent to old ones). A really, really paranoid person can get around that problem with epoxy fills of the old holes, letting it cure, and then drilling the new set.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

If properly plugged the extra holes would/should have no ill effects on the integrity of the ski or on performance.  However, just knowing that they are there would bug me since I paid for skis without plugged holes.  If not properly plugged, an extra set of holes in front of the toe piece can absolutely impact the integrity of the ski in big bumps.  But, not so much for an A/T ski IMO.  I'd take $100 in store credit minimum for such an error.

+1 on that.  A good shop will always stand behind their work and will make it right for you.  This is how you separate good shops from the rest of them.  

post #10 of 18

10 minutes before reading this thread, the shop just called to tell me I could pick up my new skis with the new bindings mounted.  Now I'm worried!  frown.gif

 

 

 

 

biggrin.gif
 

post #11 of 18

yes, why? because if you went to sell them in less than 2 years, the extra set of holes most likely will cost you about another 20%-30% of resale value. Trust me, I sell a lot of ski's. Personally, as long as the holes are spaced between mountings and properly sealed, I don't care but most people will not buy a ski that is drilled 2x unless their BSL matches one of the drillings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post

New skis because of extra holes that don't affect performance in any way and only affect cosmetics?
Seriously?
Wow. That's a real primadonna perspective.
in 2005 my local shop mis-drilled my new Head Monster 88 that I brought to them for mounting. You could see two of the plugs. They admitted the error, didn't charge for the mount (normally $40), and gave me a $50 credit in the shop. If you ask me, I got the better deal there. From an on-snow performance perspective, the skis don't know that they have extra holes. And I don't buy my skis because of how they look in the lift line or how their topsheets impress others. I buy them because of how they ski. 4 extra holes in the pair didn't affect that performance in any way. Most well-made skis can be drilled several times before they lose structural integrity.
Plenty of people out in the skiing world will have bindings moved forward or back from their first mount point. There's no reason to worry on whether that will damage the skis, as long as the new mount isn't basically shadowing the old mount (drililng new holes immediately adjacent to old ones). A really, really paranoid person can get around that problem with epoxy fills of the old holes, letting it cure, and then drilling the new set.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo Momma View Post

While a second set of holes technically will not affect ski performance, it reduces your resale value. If you make enough noise and complain they may cover another set of skis............. not sure you'll get the skis you want but a good shop will offer a comparable set of skis which may or may not be to your liking............a GREAT shop will order you your skis w/ no hassle................ Good luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

yes, why? because if you went to sell them in less than 2 years, the extra set of holes most likely will cost you about another 20%-30% of resale value. Trust me, I sell a lot of ski's. Personally, as long as the holes are spaced between mountings and properly sealed, I don't care but most people will not buy a ski that is drilled 2x unless their BSL matches one of the drillings.
My concern exactly. My finances being what they are, I need to sell old gear if I want to replace it with new. In the OP's case I'd be miffed if they didn't replace the brand new skis I'd entrusted them with, although I'd reluctantly accept 20-30% of the value of the new ski, because that's what I'd expect to lose if I were to sell it used right now.

Call that bitchy, here's an analogy: you've taken your bare-roofed new car to a mechanic to have them install a permanent roof rack. They drill the roof in the wrong place, plug the holes properly, and then install the rack in the right position. No matter what, I'm not going to pay for the rack or labor, and I'd demand compensation for what I'd lose in resale value. I'm not going to ask for a new car,

If the dealer did that before I took delivery of the car I'd make more of a fuss, and expect them to get me a new one and sell the old one at the reduced value they created.
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

yes, why? because if you went to sell them in less than 2 years, the extra set of holes most likely will cost you about another 20%-30% of resale value. Trust me, I sell a lot of ski's. Personally, as long as the holes are spaced between mountings and properly sealed, I don't care but most people will not buy a ski that is drilled 2x unless their BSL matches one of the drillings.

I think you live in a different reality from me. Skis to me are tools, not "investments."
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

Call that bitchy, here's an analogy: you've taken your bare-roofed new car to a mechanic to have them install a permanent roof rack. They drill the roof in the wrong place, plug the holes properly, and then install the rack in the right position. No matter what, I'm not going to pay for the rack or labor, and I'd demand compensation for what I'd lose in resale value. I'm not going to ask for a new car,
If the dealer did that before I took delivery of the car I'd make more of a fuss, and expect them to get me a new one and sell the old one at the reduced value they created.

In my reality, if I want a thing permanently mounted to my truck, I do it myself. It's funny how you can reduce the little-but-seeming-immense disappointments of life when you take some responsibility for the things that you deem important.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hi folks,

 

Wow - thank you for all the replies. It's interesting to read through the discussion and different p.o.v on this matter.

 

I'll be picking up my skis and speaking with the manager at the shop this weekend - I'll let you know what the result is. While initially I started leaning towards a pair of new skis as compensation, it sounds like the extra holes won't compromise the integrity of the ski, and so perhaps this is a little too high a demand. I do, however, agree that the extra holes have definitely decreased the value of my skis, and also the flexibility I'll have with binding adjustments in the future. While skis are indeed tools, they also require a large investment - one that I saved up for over the last year or so! If in a couple of years I want to upgrade these skis, there is no way I'll be able to do so without selling them - which I'm now going to have a very difficult time doing, as most folks will not buy skis that have been drilled twice. Likewise, if I decide to change bindings for some reason, or to move my bindings further back after some experience on this new set, I no longer have the option. The key point here is that I brought in brand new skis that had not yet been drilled, and I'm getting back skis that have been drilled twice. I agree that there should be some compensation for that.

 

I like the idea of 20-30% of the retail value or $100 in-store credit. I still need to buy skins and safety gear, and an in-store credit would help with that.

 

I'll keep you posted - and thanks again for all the input!

post #15 of 18

Per TGR --the expert source for this sort of thing--an extra set of holes will reduce value by 10%. I'd go for 20%, including the free mount and molding.  

 

so 600 buck ski-120 reduction minus 50 for the mount and molding, see if you can get 70 credit (which only costs the shop 35--the wholesale cost of the goods). (And the mount and molding isn't costing them a dime since they have to pay the tech regardless.)

post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallfry506 View Post

This is a tough one.  I don't mind when its me beating up my new gear, but boy do i get frustrated when its someone else!  

That is why the answer to this question is always, "learn to mount your own bindings".  It really is not hard if you triple measure everything before you start drilling.  In Tech Talk on TGR there are a few threads that offer advice and many binding templates, including Dynafits. Rarely when I read these threads, did the customer tell the shop exactly where they wanted the bindings mounted or better yet mark the skirolleyes.gif  Rather they assume some part time employee is going to be the Pro from Dover and know exactly what they need from looking at an order sheet with no info. I guess the OP was assuming a mount on the line and it sucks they blew it, but that is why I do not trust a shop to mount skis as well as I will.  Just my 2 cents.  I am sorry your skis got messed up.  Next time do it yourself.

post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hi folks,

 

Liv2 ski - I'm not very handy with tools, and while I appreciate the "if you want things done right, do it yourself" approach, not everyone is confident to get behind a drill and start making holes in the gear they just paid megabucks for. That's why we pay a shop - who apparently does this fairly regularly and has the right setup to do so - to do it for us. And there were no misinterpretations in regards to where the binding should have been mounted. It was supposed to be midsole, and the tech who did it had been trained incorrectly in regards to how to read/align the dynafit drill plate.

 

Ok - so the shop agreed (without hesitation) to refund the mounting fee, do the heat molding for free, and give me a $100 in store credit for "devaluing" my skis. I explained my thoughts based on the awesome advice from all you folks on this forum (esp. crgildart, Finndog, litterbug, and oldgoat), and suggested that in addition to the refund on the mounting and heat molding, I would like some sort of in-store credit for the lost value (i.e., flexibility with binding adjustments in future, selling skis to upgrade in the future...etc.) and they offered $100, which was exactly what I was hoping for. :)

 

Thanks again for all the advice...snow is falling as I write this - time to go try try out these new babies!

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleB View Post

Hi folks,

Liv2 ski - I'm not very handy with tools, and while I appreciate the "if you want things done right, do it yourself" approach, not everyone is confident to get behind a drill and start making holes in the gear they just paid megabucks for. That's why we pay a shop - who apparently does this fairly regularly and has the right setup to do so - to do it for us. And there were no misinterpretations in regards to where the binding should have been mounted. It was supposed to be midsole, and the tech who did it had been trained incorrectly in regards to how to read/align the dynafit drill plate.

Ok - so the shop agreed (without hesitation) to refund the mounting fee, do the heat molding for free, and give me a $100 in store credit for "devaluing" my skis. I explained my thoughts based on the awesome advice from all you folks on this forum (esp. crgildart, Finndog, litterbug, and oldgoat), and suggested that in addition to the refund on the mounting and heat molding, I would like some sort of in-store credit for the lost value (i.e., flexibility with binding adjustments in future, selling skis to upgrade in the future...etc.) and they offered $100, which was exactly what I was hoping for. smile.gif

Thanks again for all the advice...snow is falling as I write this - time to go try try out these new babies!

Good outcome. Pays to be informed when negotiating.
Enjoy your new sticks
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