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Bring Grace Back to Skiing - Page 2

post #31 of 49

"Grace? She died 30 years ago."

"They want you to say Grace... THE BLESSING!"

"I pledge allegiance to the flag..."

post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post

"Grace? She died 30 years ago."
"They want you to say Grace... THE BLESSING!"
"I pledge allegiance to the flag..."

"Elegance of movement"
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

"Grace" is looking good with balance and style.  Balance is beautiful to watch in people in general, and in any sport from skiing to martial arts.  Style is the thing that makes everything look effortless and natural.   We always remember with fondness those with balance and style.  For example, Jackie Kennedy and Grace Kelly had grace (balance and style).   Lindsay Lohan has some style but no balance in any aspect of her being (balance is hard when you are high all the time).   Anyhow, getting on to skiing, anyone with grace must have skill (balance) and the required strength to have the style necessary to ski gracefully. Just  like this guy from around forty years ago:

 

 

Or this guy from a 45-70 years ago (start at 1:40):

 

 

Or even this guy showing graceful skiing on one ski at 60 mph.  The dude has strength and balance, doesn't he?

 

 

 

I just want to say that the Alf Engen video is magical and frankly makes the often trotted out 'Killy in The Trees' video look tawdry and dull (though, I like that video as well). 

post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post

Did I miss something or the art of understanding sarcasm and humor is becoming extinct? Wow!

Sarcasm and humor don't appear to have a place in this forum.  That said, while the article was written in a humorous tone I'm not so sure the writer wasn't making a serious point. Or not.

post #35 of 49

Sarcastic or not, he makes a point I agree with.

 

Although I don't see a lot of folks straight-lining (I guess ski patrol puts a stop to that), or carving fast turns in or out of control,  I see a lot of young folks, going from the lift to the park with barely any idea of how to turn, but they do pretty good tricks in the park.

 

Something is missing and the skiers who are missing it don't even know they are missing it.  It's sad, because if they knew what they were missing, they might do something about it.  And then we could watch more gracefull skiers on the lift ride up.  The style and ability to make good technical graceful turns is missing.  They obviously have the physical skill and attitude to work hard enough to become better; they put in hours at unexciting speeds in order to a simple 360, do a trick on a rail (or for some, just ride a hand rail down a set of stairs).

We want to it all, but we are not willing to work on it.  I'm just not interested in putting in the boring hours to learn how to do park tricks, and they are not interested in putting in what to them I guess would be boring hours learning how to turn.

 

It's like you go into a bar and order a zombie, and it comes out with barely any rum in it (against policy don't you know).  Something's missing.

 

It's like ordering Szechuan food and it has barely any spice in it.  Somethings missing.

 

It's like when you go to a karate match and see people being kicked and punched with no apparent effect.  Something's missing.

 

It's like flat cola, decaffeinated coffee, or de-alcoholized scotch, a black and white tv, a 1969 muscle car, a Mazda Miata,  (now if we could combine the handling of the miata and the torque of the muscle car...we would have a car I couldn't afford).

 

We would like to see beautiful graceful skiiing from all skilled skiers, we know they could do it if they wanted to work on it a little.

 

When something is good and could be so much better, it is regrettable.  If it was no good at all we would give it no thought.

post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Something is missing and the skiers who are missing it don't even know they are missing it.  It's sad, because if they knew what they were missing, they might do something about it.

Is this kinda like, y'know, for the young kool hucksters, grammer and spelling, dood?  Like, ur going, WTF?

 

 

 

 

roflmao.gif

 

But, you're right and I joke about "kids these days".  How can you miss something that you never knew nor appreciated?

 

And don't be dissing old muscle cars!  smile.gif

post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post

 

 

I just want to say that the Alf Engen video is magical and frankly makes the often trotted out 'Killy in The Trees' video look tawdry and dull (though, I like that video as well). 


Honestly, it's comical how many better videos of graceful powder/tree skiing can be found on the web, Yet Quant jumps at any chance to link these tired old videos.

post #38 of 49

When Killy was winning his medals a lot of the old school skiing establishment of that day complained about how ungraceflly  he skied.  Success has a way of changing tastes.  

Function over form?

post #39 of 49


 

post #40 of 49

What a gip. I wanted to see pics of Suzy "Chapstick". Can you say bait and switch


Edited by Jiuk - 12/12/12 at 1:41am
post #41 of 49

Get off mah lawn! Says the old skier to the park rat.  hissyfit.gifroflmao.gif

post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Sarcastic or not, he makes a point I agree with.

 

Although I don't see a lot of folks straight-lining (I guess ski patrol puts a stop to that), or carving fast turns in or out of control,  I see a lot of young folks, going from the lift to the park with barely any idea of how to turn, but they do pretty good tricks in the park.

 

Something is missing and the skiers who are missing it don't even know they are missing it.  It's sad, because if they knew what they were missing, they might do something about it.  And then we could watch more gracefull skiers on the lift ride up.  The style and ability to make good technical graceful turns is missing.  They obviously have the physical skill and attitude to work hard enough to become better; they put in hours at unexciting speeds in order to a simple 360, do a trick on a rail (or for some, just ride a hand rail down a set of stairs).

We want to it all, but we are not willing to work on it.  I'm just not interested in putting in the boring hours to learn how to do park tricks, and they are not interested in putting in what to them I guess would be boring hours learning how to turn.

 

It's like you go into a bar and order a zombie, and it comes out with barely any rum in it (against policy don't you know).  Something's missing.

 

It's like ordering Szechuan food and it has barely any spice in it.  Somethings missing.

 

It's like when you go to a karate match and see people being kicked and punched with no apparent effect.  Something's missing.

 

It's like flat cola, decaffeinated coffee, or de-alcoholized scotch, a black and white tv, a 1969 muscle car, a Mazda Miata,  (now if we could combine the handling of the miata and the torque of the muscle car...we would have a car I couldn't afford).

 

We would like to see beautiful graceful skiiing from all skilled skiers, we know they could do it if they wanted to work on it a little.

 

When something is good and could be so much better, it is regrettable.  If it was no good at all we would give it no thought.

 

Wonder if they're saying the same thing about everyone who is skipping the park. There's something so graceful and beautiful and exhilarating and fun going on in the park-- and look at all those poor people carving by, oblivious to what they're missing. So sad. All that lost opportunity.

 

Who cares? 

 

I mean, the more people supporting the financial health of the company running the lifts who don't clog up the pistes, or ski out the fresh pow.... the better. Quite complaining, I say. Let 'em chill in the park, buy their lift ticket, and help subsidize my lift ticket. And anyway, what they're doing is pretty cool. It's not what I do... but why in the world do I want everyone to do what I do?

post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by justruss View Post

 

Wonder if they're saying the same thing about everyone who is skipping the park. There's something so graceful and beautiful and exhilarating and fun going on in the park-- and look at all those poor people carving by, oblivious to what they're missing. So sad. All that lost opportunity.

 

Who cares? 

 

I mean, the more people supporting the financial health of the company running the lifts who don't clog up the pistes, or ski out the fresh pow.... the better. Quite complaining, I say. Let 'em chill in the park, buy their lift ticket, and help subsidize my lift ticket. And anyway, what they're doing is pretty cool. It's not what I do... but why in the world do I want everyone to do what I do?


Quality post. It's unfortunate that there is a segment that has locked themselves in to a definition of what they think skiing should be.

 

FWIW there are plenty of those kids that can ski much better than the people who like to shit on them. Just like there is a great portion of people with great carving ability that turn in to a shit show the second their ski's leave the ground.

 

Skiing is so many things to so many different people.

post #44 of 49

The only graceful skiers I see are telemarking.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  Weird article

post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by justruss View Post

Who cares? 

 

I mean, the more people supporting the financial health of the company running the lifts who don't clog up the pistes, or ski out the fresh pow.... the better. Quite complaining, I say. Let 'em chill in the park, buy their lift ticket, and help subsidize my lift ticket. And anyway, what they're doing is pretty cool. It's not what I do... but why in the world do I want everyone to do what I do?

 

From a philosophical point of view, you care because you want the world to be smart and not ignorant.   

It is the age old question of is it better to have knowledge even though it makes you less happy, or ignorantly blissful.

Then after you've answered the question for yourself, if you see your fellow man ignorantly blissful, do you let them be, or do you tell them about to the tree of knowledge?

 beercheer.gif

post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by justruss View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Sarcastic or not, he makes a point I agree with.

 

Although I don't see a lot of folks straight-lining (I guess ski patrol puts a stop to that), or carving fast turns in or out of control,  I see a lot of young folks, going from the lift to the park with barely any idea of how to turn, but they do pretty good tricks in the park.

 

Something is missing and the skiers who are missing it don't even know they are missing it.  It's sad, because if they knew what they were missing, they might do something about it.  And then we could watch more gracefull skiers on the lift ride up.  The style and ability to make good technical graceful turns is missing.  They obviously have the physical skill and attitude to work hard enough to become better; they put in hours at unexciting speeds in order to a simple 360, do a trick on a rail (or for some, just ride a hand rail down a set of stairs).

We want to it all, but we are not willing to work on it.  I'm just not interested in putting in the boring hours to learn how to do park tricks, and they are not interested in putting in what to them I guess would be boring hours learning how to turn.

 

It's like you go into a bar and order a zombie, and it comes out with barely any rum in it (against policy don't you know).  Something's missing.

 

It's like ordering Szechuan food and it has barely any spice in it.  Somethings missing.

 

It's like when you go to a karate match and see people being kicked and punched with no apparent effect.  Something's missing.

 

It's like flat cola, decaffeinated coffee, or de-alcoholized scotch, a black and white tv, a 1969 muscle car, a Mazda Miata,  (now if we could combine the handling of the miata and the torque of the muscle car...we would have a car I couldn't afford).

 

We would like to see beautiful graceful skiiing from all skilled skiers, we know they could do it if they wanted to work on it a little.

 

When something is good and could be so much better, it is regrettable.  If it was no good at all we would give it no thought.

 

Wonder if they're saying the same thing about everyone who is skipping the park. There's something so graceful and beautiful and exhilarating and fun going on in the park-- and look at all those poor people carving by, oblivious to what they're missing. So sad. All that lost opportunity.

 

Who cares? 

 

I mean, the more people supporting the financial health of the company running the lifts who don't clog up the pistes, or ski out the fresh pow.... the better. Quite complaining, I say. Let 'em chill in the park, buy their lift ticket, and help subsidize my lift ticket. And anyway, what they're doing is pretty cool. It's not what I do... but why in the world do I want everyone to do what I do?


Yeah, they probably do. 

BTW oft times on a snow day, the best untouched powder (what passes for "powder" in Ontario) can be found in the trauma park, between the paths from one feature to the next.   I like doing the jumps myself, but care too much about my edges for rails. 

post #47 of 49

On this topic, my first thoughts are that grace, like beauty, is pretty much in the eye of the beholder, per what a lot of the posts have already said. I happen to think that Marcel Hirscher's slalom skiing is incredibly graceful, but there are people...I've talked to them...who think it's incredibly ugly. One of the nice things about ski racing is that, as Steve Nyman once said, "It ain't a beauty contest." The clock never lies, and it's remarkably good at picking out the best skier on the hill.

 

On the other hand, I don't go much for freestyle aerial events, but I'm not going to argue with anybody who thinks it's a graceful athletic event. Those folks are incredibly flexible, quick, strong athletes making risky, and yes, graceful moves that I'd never consider attempting.  I'm just not sure it has much to do with skiing. Freestyle aerial looks a lot more to me like platform diving than skiing, and in fact, I think a lot of the freestyle aerialists train by jumping into pools. Therefore, re the comment on "straight lining", I wouldn't call freestyle aerials skiing any more than I'd call platform diving swimming.  Or water polo.

 

Segue to Ryan Dunfee's article. He says "It’s a process I’m calling The Silhouette Test™. Looking sideways at your shadow as you ski, you are devoid of all the flashy distractions that keep you from skiing smoothly—your fluoro outerwear, the topsheets on those sick new rockered skis, your awesome job tucking your neck gaiter into your hat and under your goggles just so. You’re left only with the monochromatic shadow of your movement, a cruel, simple reflection of your calm, collected movements and quiet athletic stance"

 

Okay...so graceful skiing is not only a judged contest, it's a narcisstic, self-judged contest. Don't start complaining yet, because there's an element of that which I fully support. I taught skiing for 6 years, and I had a lot of students who got stressed and hung up on what they thought skiing was supposed to  be, and what they thought they should be doing better or differently. So I'd suggest that they do the best they could, and try to smell the roses regardless of where their skills went or what anybody else thought. So I'm initially fine with saying that if you think your shadow is doing the right thing, skiing gracefully and all that, then you are graceful, and you have my permission to go ski the mahogany rail for a while and exult in your prowess.

 

However...to be the devil's advocate just for a moment...in what Dunfee says, above, there's absolutely no discussion of what the skis might be doing in the snow...skidding, carving, straight lining, or none of the above. So if I had my tongue firmly in cheek, I might say that The Silhouette Test™.sounds suspiciously like park and ride posing. I mean if I want to like the way my shadow looks...why worry about skiing anything more than than the flattest green run I can find, straight lining it, at 5 mph, max? Or for that matter, why even ski at all? When I can just stand in the parking lot, on my skis, and regard my shadow. Or do the same in my back yard, or living room, for that matter....

post #48 of 49
Thread Starter 
I wonder - how come ballet skiers (if any left) did not chime in yet with their feelings hurt? I would expect them to be more sensitive than bad ass park rats and gnar shredders...go figure.
On an almost side note - skiing grace could be found anywhere: carving, park, big mountain, bumps. Even aforementioned ballet. Why is it always carving vs off piste or skinny vs fat? Apparently I don't get the point.
Edited by cfr - 12/12/12 at 5:28pm
post #49 of 49

The shadow test pales in comparison to a helmet cam.  I know a lot of people like to rip on them, but when it comes to evaluating your skiing, in particular how fluid you are, there is no substitute (aside from having someone else film you, but you can get way more footage from a POV camera unless you have a very dedicated friend).

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