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Big Boy Skis

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 

I made the case for why I need new skis over in the Ski Instruction & Coaching forum, post titled:

 

When Gear Holds You Back.  

 

Please skim for more on why I'm looking for a new ski, some detailed questions from the best and brightest on this site on what I want, my answers and some interesting discussion.

 

Short answer: a new daily driver for Tahoe.  

 

Me: 6'2" 280 lbs, ski about 30 days a year.  Currently skiing Mantra 184 (07) in all conditions.  Level 7 skier, looking to improve.  Planning to take 10 lessons this season.

 

Anyway, here's my (not so) short list of skis to demo/consider.  

 

One concern is that I may have gotten a bit overzealous in listing so many 110+ skis.  Like the title of the thread though, I'm in for big boy skis so let's start here.  Again, I'm on the Mantra for comparison.

 

 

                   

.

Ski Year (greater year) Length Tip Waist Tail Turn Radius Notes  

.

Volkl Mantra 2007 184 130 94 113 26 Control ski  

.

Blizzard Bonafide 2013 187 133 98 118 21 Crowd favorite http://starthaus.com/wordpress/2012/10/29/blizzard-bonafide-review-an-all-mountain-ski-gold-standard/

.

Nordica Enforcer 2013 185 135 98 122 21   http://www.epicski.com/products/2013-nordica-enforcer-ti/reviews

.

Atomic Automatic 2013 193 141.5 117 130.5 20   http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-atomic-automatic/4

.

Salomon Rocker 2 115 2013 192 144 122 134 26   http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-salomon-rocker-2-108

.

Moment Bibby Pro 2013 190 143 118 134 26.5 Mustache Rocker (Stiffness 8, surface 1560) http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/review-moment-bibby-pro-184cm

.

Moment Bibby Special 2012 196 150 116 123 23 (Stiffness 10, surface 1740) http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/preview-moment-governor

.

Line Influence 115 2013 192 145 115 131 23.5   http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-line-influence-115

.

DPS 112 RP 2013 190 148 112 128 15--18 Probably Hybrid http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/review-dpw-wailer-112rp

.

Nordica Helldorado 2013 193 143 113 132 21 Felt like a tanker, could carve though http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/nordica-helldorado

.

Rossi Squad7 2013 190 145 120 126 29.5   http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/rossignol-squad-7

.

ON3P Billy Goat 2013 191 145 118 128 29.2 Handmade, custom flex http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2011-2012-on3p-billy-goat-191cm/3

.

Black Diamond Megawatt 2013 188 151 125 131 35 Might be too short http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2011-2012-black-diamond-megawatt-188cm-2

.

Kastle BMX108 2013 195 132 108 122 35   http://www.epicski.com/products/2012-kastle-bmx-108-ski/reviews

 

While I've done my best to list the correct dimensions, and year, that's only part of the story when it comes to ski performance.  Missing on my part is a better understanding of flex pattern.  I admit I'm fairly new to many of these concepts and I feel much has changed in how we evaluate and ultimately select a ski.  I'd say at this point I'm biased towards traditional GS style turns with a stiff and reliable tail.  I don't even really know what it means to slarve.  (OK, I have an idea but ...) Still, I tried to mix it up and not let my biases rule out otherwise worthy choices.

 

Perhaps it would be useful to group this skis by their flex patterns and draw some general conclusions about how those groups might perform?

 

The ideal ski for me would outperform the Mantra in all categories, from hard pack to blower and everything in between.  Whichever ski gets the closest is something I have to try.  If I go smaller I'm okay demo'ing powder boards 3-5 days out of the season after making a purchase too.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 


Edited by dmourati - 12/4/12 at 11:49pm
post #2 of 50

popcorn.gif

 

 

SJ

post #3 of 50
Your Mantra is a traditional fully cambered ski with race style metal construction so it will be hard to beat in terms of holding an edge on hardpack/groomers. I just added a Katana to my 184 mantra and I'm really enjoying it. Most on your list has some sort of rocker or reverse camber. You may want to demo the katana in a 190 or even the new Mantra before u pull the trigger
post #4 of 50

I posted this in your other thread...

 

A consideration for your hard snow ski, particularly for your size is last years Salomon Sentinel in a 191 which Start Haus has on clearance for $299 a great deal on a strong ski for someone your size. I recall last year when you demo'ed the Helldorado, that would be prolly at the top of my suggestion list for you for the powder ski too. 

post #5 of 50

Good luck narrowing that down. I have my own review in my sig, as well as links to other reviews/threads on TGR about the Billygoat.

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/238566-Review-2012-2013-ON3P-191-Billygoat

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/242924-REVIEW-11-12-191-ON3P-Billygoat-As-good-as-everyone-is-saying

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/237660-2012-2013-ON3P-SIA-Photos-and-Discussion

 

Not sure if you can do it with any of those other companies, but I know you can call ON3P and talk to the owners. They will tell you if their ski is for you or not.
 

post #6 of 50

On your list, from about Automatic down, those are not commonly chosen as daily drivers, except by the young guys who have more tolerance for the foot discomfort resulting from skiing wide soft skis on harder snow, part of the daily driver in my experience. In Tahoe a daily driver would be mostly 100 - 108 and include such models as Shogun, Sentinel,   Legend Pro,   Cham 97, 107,   Mantra and Katana,   Bonified and Cochise,   E-98, etc. 
 

Your age does have something to do with your choice, btw.

 

At 280#, I would chose a ski that is highly regarded for durable construction, and initially quite stiff.

post #7 of 50
Thread Starter 

The Helldo was a great starting point for me to demo.  I liked it, didn't necessarily love it, but definitely didn't 100% get it with just one day.

 

My notes are good data: felt surfy*, could carve.  Part of why that is important to me to have both aspects, at least in the "quiver."  Now, if that is one ski, your compromise become more diametrically opposed: hard snow/ soft snow?  I can see how to build off the Mantra (by adding or taking away) and how to build off the Helldo to get where I'm going.  I'm open to two ski new skis too.  Prices are more reasonable (except for Kastle) than I thought.  

 

The helldos sure were flappy in the very tips and tails. 

 

*though I said tanker above, I'd previously said surfy.  It provided the best run of the season so that's strong.

 

 I'd go for another ride.

 

Start there?

post #8 of 50

When I demoed skis last year looking for a 90mm daily driver, I demoed the Nordica Steadfast twice.  The first time it felt pretty good but didn't quite click.  The second time it was almost like a different ski, everything about it clicked.  The two demo days were about 10 days apart and I think that on that second day I adjusted to the ski.  If you thought a ski was pretty good the first time you tried it, try it again.  If it doesn't feel any better, move on but if it feels better you've probably found your new ski.

post #9 of 50

I suggest you look at Ski Logik skis. Their Ullrs Chariot at 188 cm (101mm) would work well for where you ski. It also carves like a race ski and really helps build skills. Not sure what you are looking to improve at, but as an East Coast Skier, I find the wide skis require you to use a certain style or technique. A narrower ski lets you use a lot more pivot and unweighting to really move the skis quickly from edge to edge, assuming hard snow. If I was looking to improve my skills, I would want to be on a quick carving ski in the narrowest width that makes sense for the snow conditions. I have skied Tahoe before and quickly learned why the crowds follow the sun across the mountain (I think I was at Squaw that day). Never saw an icier slope than the first run in the morning on the shady side. I can see why you need some width to deal with the slush on the softened trails. (no new snow the week I was there). The Chariot would work well there, or maybe the Blizzar Magnom 8.5 or the Elan Amphio 88 or the Head Rev 85 or 90. I am around 250 lbs myself, and tend to like race stock skis a lot. They don't make em wide, but I own the Chariot in 178 cm and it works fine for me, does not feel short at all.

post #10 of 50

FWIW I demoed the Ullrs Chariot and about hated it.  It's rare that I actively dislike any ski.  There are some who love them, I wanted to and "really" didn't.  You might like an E98 in 180 or 188.  I would think you could find a good price esp on the longer length.  The Bonafide also looks good and has the reputation of being one of the best all around skis in its class.  I think at your weight that you might want a ski with metal in it like the Mantra or the E98.  Last season I put about 50 days on my 180 E98 and it could have served as a one ski quiver for me in JH.  I'm 5'10 175lbs and I ski hard about 100 days/year.  The 180 was a good length for me.  The E98 fits the bill of a ski that will do powerful GS style turns and features a stiff and reliable tail.  BTW it will shmear, slarve, whatever just fine.  But then I don't think I have ever been on a ski that I couldn't shmear and that includes my new WC Slalom skis that used to belong to Bode.wink.gif

post #11 of 50

Enforcer.

post #12 of 50

Teton,

 

What exactly is shmear and slarve?? Not quite sure.

 

Also, curious what you hated about the Chariot. I know the first year it was too stiff and the base is not always flat from the factory, which messes up the ski until it is tuned. I don't work for Skilogik or have anything to do with them, but the ski is so good, I am curious to hear what you hated about it.

post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post

 

What exactly is shmear and slarve?? Not quite sure.

 

To a certain extent, these are newly-coined terms that attempt to describe skidded turns in a positive manner.

 

It would be tough to market a near-thousand dollar ski who's main attribute was "skids really well!"

post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRPufnStf View Post

It would be tough to market a near-thousand dollar ski who's main attribute was "skids really well!"

Or not.  "Skidding" down an a steep bowl or through glades, in 2 feet of powder, on modern equipment, at speeds and on lines far more aggressive than mere mortals are able to sustain on "race carvers" in deep snow is actually pretty fun.  You should try it some time.  Powder day at Crystal tomorrow.

post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRPufnStf View Post

 

To a certain extent, these are newly-coined terms that attempt to describe skidded turns in a positive manner.

 

It would be tough to market a near-thousand dollar ski who's main attribute was "skids really well!"

 

I think it's funny how carving has come to mean "good" skiing and skidding has become a dirty word.  The fact is that the mechanics of carving with modern skis are not difficult.  It is far more difficult to accurately blend several skills into shaping the appropriate turn for a specific task while giving up some edge.  Even the best racers on the WC do it to adjust their line in a course.  They call it a stivot or a "redirection" and it allows them to stay closer to the fall line and thus be faster than they could be if they only carved.  I like to use the example of stock car racers on a dirt track.  The less experienced driver "skids" into the wall while the winning driver accurately "drifts" through the turn entering, shaping, and leaving the turn in a deliberately shaped path while all four tires are "skidding".  The driver in that race who slows down and takes the turn without "skidding" will be in last place.

 

I see skiers all the time who have learned how to tip their skis on edge and statically ride the side cut through a "carved" arc.  Yes, they are carving and, no, I don't consider this park & ride style to be "good" skiing.  It's one dimensional and limits those skiers to a single turn shape useful solely on groomed terrain.  Yet nearly everyone I see doing it thinks they are an expert skier because they are "carving" and leaving pretty tracks.  Get that skier into bumps, trees, or steep narrow chutes and they are screwed.  Being able to shape a round turn of any size while drifting is the key to skiing the whole mountain and, ironically, will make you a better carver when that is what you choose to do.  The movements of efficient skiing are the same whether used for a shmear or a carve, only the D.I.R.T. changes to blend these movements to produce the intended outcome.  A truly good skier owns the whole continuum of blended skills and thus can produce many different outcomes at will and on the fly.


Edited by tetonpwdrjunkie - 12/6/12 at 4:52pm
post #16 of 50

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

I think it's funny how carving has come to mean "good" skiing and skidding has become a dirty word.  The fact is that the mechanics of carving with modern skis are not difficult.  It is far more difficult to accurately blend several skills into shaping the appropriate turn for a specific task while giving up some edge.  Even the best racers on the WC do it to adjust their line in a course.  They call it a stivot or a "redirection" and it allows them to stay closer to the fall line and thus be faster than they could be if they only carved.  I like to use the example of stock car racers on a dirt track.  The less experienced driver "skids" into the wall while the winning driver accurately "drifts" through the turn entering, shaping, and leaving the turn in a deliberately shaped path while all four tires are "skidding".  The driver in that race who slows down and takes the turn without "skidding" will be in last place.

 

I see skiers all the time who have learned how to tip their skis on edge and statically ride the side cut through a "carved" arc.  Yes, they are carving and, no, I don't consider this park & ride style to be "good" skiing.  It's one dimensional and limits those skiers to a single turn shape useful solely on groomed terrain.  Yet nearly everyone I see doing it thinks they are an expert skier because they are "carving" and leaving pretty tracks.  Get that skier into bumps, trees, or steep narrow chutes and they are screwed.  Being able to shape a round turn of any size while drifting is the key to skiing the whole mountain and, ironically, will make you a better carver when that is what you choose to do.  The movements of efficient skiing are the same whether used for a shmear or a carve, only the D.I.R.T. changes to blend these movements to produce the intended outcome.  A truly good skier owns the whole continuum of blended skills and thus can produce many different outcomes at will and on the fly.

 

Very well stated.

post #17 of 50

Overthinking this a bit much????  Well, good luck narrowing this list down... SJ's post was about right.  

 

But, seriously, you need to tell us what you like in a ski.  Do you like a turny, surfy easy ski, or do you like a pedal to the metal charger?   Do you live for the few powder days or are you willing to face reality and admit that you are skiing refrozen crud most of the time?   Those preferences make a real difference.

 

Without knowing that, if I was facing the horrible reality of having a one-ski quiver in Tahoe, I would be looking at a ski that would look a lot like a Cochise, 100-110 underfoot, stout, decent amount of rocker.  Cham 107 will be high on my list as well, but that ski seems to be a lot more polarizing, I like it.  The new Enforcer is supposed to be terrific, but I have not been on it.  new Atomics seems to have good reviews but I have not been on them.  Blizzi or Dynastar seems a safe choice.  For all I know the Bonafide is a better Mantra- same target group, much better shape, stiffness profile, and execution.  

 

Saw the current Mantra in a store and was not impressed at all.   

post #18 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post
.  

 

But, seriously, you need to tell us what you like in a ski.  Do you like a turny, surfy easy ski, or do you like a pedal to the metal charger?   Do you live for the few powder days or are you willing to face reality and admit that you are skiing refrozen crud most of the time?   

I like the GS style turns the Mantra gives on open terrain.  I don't like turny slalom style bouncing around.  I'd like to consider myself a charger but nowhere near the same league as all the reviewers hucking and jiving all over.  I live in reality; a reality that affords a dozen or more good pow days per season.  I need more float in the deep days than I've been able to muster at my size on the non-rockered Mantras.

 

I can ski switch, I can do easy features in the terrain park, I can ski trees, I can ski moguls.  I'm not great at any of these by any stretch.  My ideal terrain is probably an empty steep bowl or a sparse tree run.  I like gullies and natural half pipes (think Hot Wheels Gully).  I love Eagle Bowl and Sentinel Bowl at Kirkwood.  I probably go the fastest when I'm on a groomed trail and dial it back in the variable stuff.  

 

I'm trying to be as open as possible to the new tech, hence the long list.  Again, I have some biases but not a ton of good information on what I really "like" because I've been on just three different skis in seven seasons: (Mantra, Head Mojo, Helldorado).  The Mantra's either got it done for me or made me to suffer to improve.

 

I've said I'm open to more than one ski too.  Maybe one of the above plus an MX88 and call it good.  Backing up one of the above with an 88 makes the hard pack performance issue kind of moot.  Game day decision for deep/not deep and go from there.  But I have an idea what to expect out of the MX88.  I have little or no idea what to expect out of the rest of my list above.  It really makes be want to go out and ski them all!

post #19 of 50

Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

 

If you're serious about your skiing (and with that many lessons planned it seems you are) checking out the fit'n'finish of your boots is absolutely the right place to start.  

 

After sorting out your boots (if any sorting is needed) all decisions hang on whether you want "one ski to rule them all" or a two ski quiver.  From your responses to date (in both threads) I'm not sure if you've settled on the answer to that one.  That's your next key decision point.

 

I'm assuming you're retiring the Mantras.

 

If a single ski is your aim the 188 Experience 98 is a good place to start.  It will fill the spot your Mantra currently fills.  You may ultimately decide you'd prefer something more suited to off piste, but it's a good starting point given your preference for "... traditional GS style turns with a stiff and reliable tail".

 

If you're looking for a two ski quiver you could get the E98 and something wider, but I've also seen a few examples of the 188cm Kastle MX88 floating around second hand at reasonable prices.  That's a lot of ski, and would make a fantastic narrow half of a two ski quiver for a guy of your size.  If you opted for the MX88 you'd go wider/softer than the E98 for the second ski.  Someone else will have to help there as I'm not up to speed in that area.  Not a lot of rockered 115mm skis down here.

 

Best of luck for a great season.

post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmourati View Post

 

Maybe one of the above plus an MX88 and call it good. 

 

 

Hmm ... nice cross post.

post #21 of 50

I don't have near the experience on multiple makes and models as most here, nor am I as an accomplished skier, but sounds like you and I are similar in ability and size (I'm a tad bit more svelte at a trim 260#)  with similar terrain interests (I'm probably more partial to trees and less likely to stay on groomers) so I'll chime in.  For the past 5 years, I've had a 1-ski quiver comprised of Dynastar Mythic Riders.  Last season, I decided to compliment those with something a bit more fun oriented for trees, powder, etc.  I ended up with the DPS 112RP Hybrids in 190 cm, and have been so happy with those skis I never took my Mythic Riders out once last season in 25+ days on Idaho snow.  Those things are a ball to ski in just about anything -- only time I felt compelled to swap was a day that turned to rain and runs got icy, and sitting in the bar by the fire seemed like a better idea than strapping on the MR's and slogging down slush and ice covered slopes.  Enjoyed the DPS so much, I talked my brother into a pair (he's comparatively malnourished at 240#) and he pretty much echoes my sentiment.   My Mythic Riders are now for sale, so I'm still going into this season with a 1-ski quiver...  

post #22 of 50

Last year my basic two ski quiver was the E98 and a 188 S7.  I think you would find the S7 to be too soft, you might like the Super 7 in 195 or the new squad 7 if you were inclined to get two skis.  The Bent Chetler also looks pretty cool as a big fat ski, but I haven't skied it,

 

In general I  think the E98, Mantra, and Nordica Enforcer are all fairly similar in overall shape and construction using metal.  At your size and liking a GS style turn, I would recommend a metal laminate construction.

post #23 of 50

I think the OP is the person for whom they designed the original 184cm Kastle MX98 - the one with metal.  Now that would be a good choice.

post #24 of 50

 Cochise...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmourati View Post

I like the GS style turns the Mantra gives on open terrain.  I don't like turny slalom style bouncing around.  I'd like to consider myself a charger but nowhere near the same league as all the reviewers hucking and jiving all over.  I live in reality; a reality that affords a dozen or more good pow days per season.  I need more float in the deep days than I've been able to muster at my size on the non-rockered Mantras.

 

I can ski switch, I can do easy features in the terrain park, I can ski trees, I can ski moguls.  I'm not great at any of these by any stretch.  My ideal terrain is probably an empty steep bowl or a sparse tree run.  I like gullies and natural half pipes (think Hot Wheels Gully).  I love Eagle Bowl and Sentinel Bowl at Kirkwood.  I probably go the fastest when I'm on a groomed trail and dial it back in the variable stuff.  

 

I'm trying to be as open as possible to the new tech, hence the long list.  Again, I have some biases but not a ton of good information on what I really "like" because I've been on just three different skis in seven seasons: (Mantra, Head Mojo, Helldorado).  The Mantra's either got it done for me or made me to suffer to improve.

 

I've said I'm open to more than one ski too.  Maybe one of the above plus an MX88 and call it good.  Backing up one of the above with an 88 makes the hard pack performance issue kind of moot.  Game day decision for deep/not deep and go from there.  But I have an idea what to expect out of the MX88.  I have little or no idea what to expect out of the rest of my list above.  It really makes be want to go out and ski them all!

post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

 Cochise...

 

 

My thought as well. 

post #26 of 50
Thread Starter 

Booya.  Thanks.  I have a list of things to try now, fairly well sorted.  

 

I'm hitting Northstar Saturday with my wife.  Should be pretty good groomed snow and some decent snow still off trail I should think.  

 

Can I demo Blizzard at Northstar?  I've seen that "yurt' building off to the side of the top of the gondola.

 

There?

post #27 of 50

Just about any of the newer skis mentioned will rock your world compared to the old Mantras............ I still ski the old Mantras as my rock ski ............. and they still hold up ........... but can't even begin to compare w/ my Bonafides or my Cochise's............... the newer designs just make you smile............. just avoid going skinnier than your old Mantra's ( go 96 or wider to increase the FUN factor :)

post #28 of 50

I opened this box on xmas day 2010 ,it was real skiers ski of the year ullrs chariots 178 just beautiful wood with spider inlay.WOW what a ski,mounted marker jesters on them ,blew out the back door passing the mantras my daily drivers for three years with what was going to be my new daily driver the chariots . When i clicked in the ullrs felt heavy and dumped me on my face within 100 yards of the lift ,whats going on, its december in revy,there is lots of  snow , so i jump on the stoke chair to the top and take of and dumped again within 100 yards, My fist thoughs ,the tune is messed up, of i go, the ski is hard to turn and is all over the place in the soft snow . That  night i tune the ski up and back to the hill , no change there hard to turn and are really hooky there is to much side cut  the ski is all over the place , wanted to hide them in the closet ,but the wife gave them to me for xmas  ,the next day i am determined to work this ski out back to the hill for the next two days  there is no improvement ,they sure look good but i just had trouble ,so my freinds took them for a drive if there boot fit, everyone had the same opinion to hooky can not trust them or the best comment put me on my face when i least expected it ,but they sure look good ,i sold them within a week ,i saw the guy i sold them to about two weeks latter in the lift line no ullrs on his feet ,I asked him how he liked them he said sold them. I Then looked down i was on bent chetlers that day,not hooky , i was kind of laughing under my breath the whole day but felt bad for selling that ski to him he was a good guy , Im sure someone out there skis the hell out of them for sure,  

post #29 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmourati View Post

Booya.  Thanks.  I have a list of things to try now, fairly well sorted.  

 

I'm hitting Northstar Saturday with my wife.  Should be pretty good groomed snow and some decent snow still off trail I should think.  

 

Can I demo Blizzard at Northstar?  I've seen that "yurt' building off to the side of the top of the gondola.

 

There?

They do carry Blizzard, here are some phone numbers - http://www.sheridanbrokers.com/SBGeneralInfo/pdf/SB-Phone-List.pdf

post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugger View Post

I opened this box on xmas day 2010 ,it was real skiers ski of the year ullrs chariots 178 just beautiful wood with spider inlay.WOW what a ski,mounted marker jesters on them ,blew out the back door passing the mantras my daily drivers for three years with what was going to be my new daily driver the chariots . When i clicked in the ullrs felt heavy and dumped me on my face within 100 yards of the lift ,whats going on, its december in revy,there is lots of  snow , so i jump on the stoke chair to the top and take of and dumped again within 100 yards, My fist thoughs ,the tune is messed up, of i go, the ski is hard to turn and is all over the place in the soft snow . That  night i tune the ski up and back to the hill , no change there hard to turn and are really hooky there is to much side cut  the ski is all over the place , wanted to hide them in the closet ,but the wife gave them to me for xmas  ,the next day i am determined to work this ski out back to the hill for the next two days  there is no improvement ,they sure look good but i just had trouble ,so my freinds took them for a drive if there boot fit, everyone had the same opinion to hooky can not trust them or the best comment put me on my face when i least expected it ,but they sure look good ,i sold them within a week ,i saw the guy i sold them to about two weeks latter in the lift line no ullrs on his feet ,I asked him how he liked them he said sold them. I Then looked down i was on bent chetlers that day,not hooky , i was kind of laughing under my breath the whole day but felt bad for selling that ski to him he was a good guy , Im sure someone out there skis the hell out of them for sure,  


Interesting...not to hijack but...IMHO :).......... I have the non rockered Ullr's in a 178, Tiger pattern............ they are a few yrs old and I LOVE the way they hook up.............. in fact it's my favorite ski even beating out my Bonafide's ONLY in super tight woods skiing.......... they turn on a dime LITERALLY......... you have to be ready to ski them as they take even the most subtle input and amplify it.......... I find that the technique that works w/ them is to have your heels in front of your hips like in a mogul skiing stance............ forget fwd lean on these as the shovels will over power any other movements and send you flying........ to ski these it takes a very centered position even for carving........... perfect for woods......... the ski carves beautifully on a dime ............. unless you have too much fwd lean............ keep your movements subtle on these and you will love them for arcing beautiful textbook S turns.............. this ski is MOS DEF NOT for everyone so I understand why you sold them....... If I leaned as far on my Ullr's as I do on my White Mantra's I'd probably not be here to tell this story! OMG............they respond to your input in the extreme! :)

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