- 3,186 Posts. Joined 10/2012
- Location: Hamilton MT
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I thank everyone who has given some input to a subject that phases a lot of us, below is a similar grid that we use in RM see what you think it is by no means correct, mearly my own thoughts.
|Prsessure ski||Bends equally from ski centre (front to back)||Continue to bend from centre, pivot point at centre with same intensity (front/back)||Continue to bend from centre (foot/foot)|
|Downhill ski slightly more bent at beginning of initiation moving to equal at end of initiation (foot to foot)||downhill ski bends progressively more through turn||uphill/downhill ski begins to equalise through phase|
|Pressure body||Ankle, knees & hips ( AKH) appropriately flexed and centred||AKH uphill ski flex increases d/hill leg straightens (extends)||Com begins to transition to neutral over toes and centre of both skis|
|Centre of mass (COM) maintained over centre of boots||Centre of mass (COM) maintained over centre of boots|
|Maintain||Appropriate COM management = DIRT leading to effective timing. Stable pelvis & upper body.||COM balanced towards d/hill over downhill boot, hands remain forward of hips, seperation of upper/lower body||Subtle extension and flexation movement keep COM over base of support (throughout all phases) COM moves to neutral|
|Rotary ski||Both twist at the same rate, reducing to no twist before fall line||Both skis turn at same rate (sequentially) and for same duration. Skis turn from centre.||Both skis twist at same rate (sequentially)|
|body||both legs turn (rotate) at same rate = timing||Both femurs turn at same rate and intensity reaching highest twist (rotation) at end of shaping, upper counter rotates facing towards downhill||Both femurs turn at same rate and intensity becoming miminal|
|Edge Ski||At beginning move from slightly tipped through to flat||Both skis continue to tip to the same angle reaching highest angle at end of shaping. Tip at same rate, time and duration.||Both skis reduce edge angle sequentially at same rate|
|body||Legs extend & flex to equal length at fall line||
legs tip uphill apropriate to turn shape (incline) body tips downhill in proportion (angulation) Tipping originates in legs
|Body untips to appropriate angles for turn shape|
O.k. Bob, I'm home now (after a SLOW day at work). I like the medicine ball video. Won't be able to read everything you've linked tonight though (skis to tune). Also, I've watched the Hirscher training vid MANY times before today...LOVE it!! But, as you said, let's not get this thread too far off track.
Regarding MY perfect parallel turn...I was thinking of my favorite conditions (firm and/or icy), my favorite slope (medium to steep, with lots of terrain features), my favorite skis (volkl racetiger 165 sl fis), my favorite turn shape (short to medium turn radius), and my favorite SA turns (cross overs, with some unders, and a mix of the two, all in the same run...think choreography). I guess where I'm going with this is...I don't think one can say, NEVER move the hips forward. I also don't think one can say, ALWAYS move the hips forward. There's simply TOO many variables present: 1) skier ability level 2) snow conditions 3) slope angle(s) 4) which skis? 5) radius etc....
Hirscher's edge engagement well into the fall line, to me, is the indicative result of retraction (invisible mogul absorbtion) and is but ONE facet of good skiing. There are times when it's necessary...and times when it's not. Skiing is, and should be FLUID, as we are "flowing" (matching the slope) down the fall line, like water down a sometimes tumultuous stream. The same turn is not, and should not, always be indicated (unless skiing on a slope perfectly the same, from top as it is to bottom--and even then, spice it up, I would posit).
Thanks, Bob! Jasp encouraged me to say something...so I did. I DO realize that the MA for a "perfect parallel" turn is a specific thing...and also knew my answer would not quite "fit the bill". Good talking to you (my friend/coach Tom Melhuse was in some clinics with you back in the day, BTW) Looking forward to future discussions!
I know Tom would probably like to remain out of the spotlight though...
Sorry Jasp...I also suppose I shouldn't have been so dramatic with my description. I was trying to describe what I would like to see another do...but of course, I'm not an examiner. A less dynamic short radius turn should indeed resemble a medium radius turn....
Not sure what the grid expressed, Derik. That's the problem with forms and just putting something in each cell without asking if that cell is adding clarity to the verbal picture you are painting. Especially when the information contradicts what you wrote in the previous / following cell. For Example: in the Rotary cells you wrote about ski pivot as a variable in that steered turn. Are you trying to say the shaping phase would be carved and the initiation and finishing phase are skidded? Does that match the expressed intent of a round constant radius skidded turn? Wouldn't that include equal amounts of skidding in all phases of that turn? See the problem? Another issue is seen in the pressure (ski) cell where you wrote about a pivot point. Wouldn't that belong in the rotary cell?
I'm not trying to be critical as much as express the idea that a more global perspective will help you learn how to recognize and then express what you are seeing. What you put in each cell must support that global perspective. When it contradicts it, you must question the accuracy of what you are putting in that cell. Beyond that, let me share a thought, MA skills are mostly internal comparative analysis activities that need to happen on the fly and in a very brief time frame. So if the matrix help you do that without slowing down your lesson planning process by all means use it. If it slows down that process, or results in superfluous / erroneous information being added it suggests an abbreviated version might serve you better. In the end MA is a two or three second thing and even doing it multiple times during a lesson doesn't mean it should take very long. Granted you need to toe the line and use that matrix to identify information but it's really just a learning aid that forces you to look a little closer at how a skier moves and what that makes the skis do. When you understand that connection, the matrix might not be something you choose to use.