New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Reasons for finishing aft - Page 3

post #61 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

 Hmm...I wonder what a good reason to NOT finish aft would be.....?

 

You want to slow down.

post #62 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

You want to slow down.

I know...sorry (but i seriously want/need to learn the new terms; ils?)

post #63 of 76

ILS = Independent Leg Steering

 

 

Tons of threads here on it.

post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

ILS = Independent Leg Steering

 

 

Tons of threads here on it.

  Gotcha...still gonna check out that linkicon14.gif

post #65 of 76

I am repeating myself here but the feet preceeding the body to the crossing in no way mean the body moved aft. Or even slowed down. All it means is the feet moved forward and that is a direct consequence of them moving faster than the body. IMO that's where the disconnect is occuring in grasping this concept. Again I am repeating myself here, a runner lifting his knees high doesn't move their body aft. It actually helps propel his body forward.

 

As far as a reason to not finish aft, well outside of the race course traffic, snow, terrain, obstacles, and even how we are setting up for the next turn might dictate not finishing with the feet preceeding the body to the crossing. Perhaps looking for exceptions instead of trying to come up with a saying about always, or nevers would be appropriate here. Good skiing is about versatility, and being versatile means avoiding the always / never way of thinking.

post #66 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

  Took me a whilewink.gif...... (must...remember....self-steering...e-ffecctt..gasp) Jamt, a good reason to finish aft! 

 

 

Hmm...I wonder what a good reason to NOT finish aft would be.....?

Yes, see post 13# :-)

post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I am repeating myself here but the feet preceeding the body to the crossing in no way mean the body moved aft. Or even slowed down. All it means is the feet moved forward and that is a direct consequence of them moving faster than the body. IMO that's where the disconnect is occuring in grasping this concept. Again I am repeating myself here, a runner lifting his knees high doesn't move their body aft. It actually helps propel his body forward.

 

As far as a reason to not finish aft, well outside of the race course traffic, snow, terrain, obstacles, and even how we are setting up for the next turn might dictate not finishing with the feet preceeding the body to the crossing. Perhaps looking for exceptions instead of trying to come up with a saying about always, or nevers would be appropriate here. Good skiing is about versatility, and being versatile means avoiding the always / never way of thinking.

  Good point jasp...extremes on either end of the spectrum are not necessarily appropriate, especially for the general skiing public. I wasn't trying to hijack this thread or anything, just wanted to get things straight in my head (i.e., the effects of moving aft). Let me once again say as well skidude, the idea of a de-cambered "jet" not being  responsible for acceleration makes much more sense now. 

  As i asked somewhere above though, isn't this just part of a larger idea of "moving the skis under you"/"moving your self over the skis"? (not in a cross over/under way, though)

post #68 of 76

(ie, the effects of letting the feet move forward) Zen

post #69 of 76
wink.gif) exactly right, jasp!
post #70 of 76

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Not really...the feet do move faster because they are on a bigger arc then the body which is on the "inside lane"...but that doesnt mean nessarily that the feet are getting ahead.  Moving fore/aft throught the turn is actually the result of deliberate movement...not a consequence of the turn itself...we can just as easily get fore and stay there 100% of the time (although this is not ideal).

the way i see it is that during the arc, teh skis are obviously moving faster than the body - however, as you straighten that arc into the transition, the skiis, having no reason to slow down, continue to move with the same higher speed and that's when they get ahead of the body, which you then correct by pulling them back - if you did nothing, they would continue going ahead faster than the body...

 

post #71 of 76

BTW Zen, we can accelerate the feet with a squirt move and in the overall scheme of things a slight acceleration of the CM and the entire system does occur since each leg each represent roughly 9% of our body mass. It's brief but there in lies the key. A brief acceleration is not only possible, it's predicted since the CM is moving forward as the body changes shape and the legs move forward. Bob's backwards bicycle pedalling graphic shows this effect BTW. So even though the legs eventually lengthen, that time spent with the legs accelerating forward indeed effects the speed of the rest of the system. Do we lose it as the legs extend and swing out to the side? It depends, No, if the feet turning across the hill and swooping back under the body do so without losing any speed. It  would mean that slight acceleration would require the body to catch up with the now faster moving feet. Thus the short cut would need to be shorter, or we need to accelerate the body to make that happen. Yes, if we slow down the feet by pulling them backwards to allow the body to catch up and pass the feet.

 

In any case a stance that appears to be aft needs to be seen as a consequence of the feet preceeding the body to the intersection of their respecive paths. It is certainly a viable option but doesn't represent our only option. Which leads back to Bob's well worn statement about intent dictating technique.


Edited by justanotherskipro - 11/30/12 at 12:51pm
post #72 of 76

Maybe being aft "feels fast" just like having water on my rotors makes it feel like I'm speeding up when I hit the brakes and nothing happens.

post #73 of 76
interesting, jasp. could it be that sometimes, the bos moving forward and the com aft occur simultaneously and are therefore co-dependant? (crude example here; chicken or the egg?)
post #74 of 76

Again the CoM moves forward as the hips flex and the feet move forward. The fact that the body lags behind doesn't mean it moved backwards, or even slowed down. It just didn't accelerate as much as the feet, or the CoM.

post #75 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

 

the way i see it is that during the arc, teh skis are obviously moving faster than the body - however, as you straighten that arc into the transition, the skiis, having no reason to slow down, continue to move with the same higher speed and that's when they get ahead of the body, which you then correct by pulling them back - if you did nothing, they would continue going ahead faster than the body...

 

Except the fact they are attached to your body.....further, the differences in speed here are not great. 

post #76 of 76
jasp, makes sense...it would be more akin to a chain of sequential events, affecting the body last.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching