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Not leaning back - Page 2

post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

Although it is certainly possible to ski from the backseat with ones hands forward, it is pretty rare to see a centered skier with his hands behind him.

I'm not saying that hand position cannot be used as aids to balance. I'm just saying hands are not the primary source of balance. He should be working on balancing from the feet not by moving his hands about and certainly not by putting his hands behind him. Hand position can be used for maintaining balance and as aids for recovery when momentarily off balance. Movements of the hands also tend to lead the body at times as in pole touch for example. Mostly I find this to be intuitive but sometimes you can help someone whose balance and movements are essentially correct to improve by dealing with hand position.

post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

I'm not saying that hand position cannot be used as aids to balance. I'm just saying hands are not the primary source of balance. He should be working on balancing from the feet not by moving his hands about and certainly not by putting his hands behind him. Hand position can be used for maintaining balance and as aids for recovery when momentarily off balance. Movements of the hands also tend to lead the body at times as in pole touch for example. Mostly I find this to be intuitive but sometimes you can help someone whose balance and movements are essentially correct to improve by dealing with hand position.

I'll buy that, just don't through the baby out with the bath water. Hands, & more importantly arm & shoulder position are all part of a good stance.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post


I'll buy that, just don't through the baby out with the bath water. Hands, & more importantly arm & shoulder position are all part of a good stance.

I'll agree with that. I wasn't trying to offer a comprehensive description of good skiing, just helping the poster with getting out of the backseat.

post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post


While I appreciate the graphic nature of your post, I disagree. Pushing the genitalia forward will cause the hips to move forward. Typically, backseat skiing is the result of the upper body being too far aft, not the lower body/hips. Backseat skiing originates as a defensive posture. The closer you are to the ground, the safer you are in the event of a fall...at least, that's what your amygdala tells you. Once the backseat skiing becomes part of the muscle memory, it's a difficult habit to break.
There are two types of advanced/expert skiers you'll see in the backseat most of the time; former bump skiers and park rats. Former bump skiers because the last thing you want in the bumps is too much weight or mass over the tips of the skis. Park rats because most aerial tricks are more easily initiated from a backseat/weight towards tails position.

 

Chaos, I am very disappointed by the meter reading on this post.  You have a reputation to uphold.

irony.gif

post #35 of 42

TLDR, did anyone cover the balance poles on top of wrists out front drill?  It's the next progression after skiing holding the poles perpendicular to the fall line..

 

First get it down holding the poles across then do with just balancing the poles on top of the wrists..


post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

TLDR, did anyone cover the balance poles on top of wrists out front drill?  It's the next progression after skiing holding the poles perpendicular to the fall line..

 

First get it down holding the poles across then do with just balancing the poles on top of the wrists..


Or better yet just put every one on those skis for a run each day, that'll center you faster than anything!

(similar to the boots unbuckled drill mentioned earlier)

 

JF

post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

TLDR, did anyone cover the balance poles on top of wrists out front drill?  It's the next progression after skiing holding the poles perpendicular to the fall line..

 

First get it down holding the poles across then do with just balancing the poles on top of the wrists..


 

Do those skis have tails?

post #38 of 42

drainbamage,

 

First, I love the name!

 

While you have received much advise on "technique" here there are four areas where this issue may originate and you must evaluate each area to find the true cause of your backseat issues.

 

T.E.P.P.

 

Technique: 4ster and others have addressed this already, it is how you move on your skis.

 

Equipment: This is the cause for many fore/aft balance issues that gets overlooked but getting your boots and bindings assessed could reveal it not your technique that is the problem but your alignment along the sagittal plane.  A good instructor or boot fitter should be able to help you here.  Of all the possible causes this one, if it is remedied properly will affect immediate change in your balancing performance.

 

Physiology: This possible cause stems from poor conditioning.  Strengthening the core muscles and the muscles of the legs helps, particularly the tibialus anterior muscle which connects from your big toe to knee and dorsiflexes your ankle.  Strengthen this muscle and your ability to remain centered will improve.

 

Psychology: If the cause is in this area you must change your intent to turn from skiing the fast line slow to skiing the slow line fast.

 

 

Find the real cause to improve your balance.  You can work on technique all you want but if the cause of your backseat issues is caused by poor equipment alignment your efforts will be futile until you fix the alignment issues.  Fix the cause rather than treat the symptom!

post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

drainbamage,

 

First, I love the name!

 

While you have received much advise on "technique" here there are four areas where this issue may originate and you must evaluate each area to find the true cause of your backseat issues.

 

T.E.P.P.

 

Technique: 4ster and others have addressed this already, it is how you move on your skis.

 

Equipment: This is the cause for many fore/aft balance issues that gets overlooked but getting your boots and bindings assessed could reveal it not your technique that is the problem but your alignment along the sagittal plane.  A good instructor or boot fitter should be able to help you here.  Of all the possible causes this one, if it is remedied properly will affect immediate change in your balancing performance.

 

Physiology: This possible cause stems from poor conditioning.  Strengthening the core muscles and the muscles of the legs helps, particularly the tibialus anterior muscle which connects from your big toe to knee and dorsiflexes your ankle.  Strengthen this muscle and your ability to remain centered will improve.

 

Psychology: If the cause is in this area you must change your intent to turn from skiing the fast line slow to skiing the slow line fast.

 

 

Find the real cause to improve your balance.  You can work on technique all you want but if the cause of your backseat issues is caused by poor equipment alignment your efforts will be futile until you fix the alignment issues.  Fix the cause rather than treat the symptom!

  Spoken eloquentlyicon14.gif

post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

drainbamage,

 

First, I love the name!

 

While you have received much advise on "technique" here there are four areas where this issue may originate and you must evaluate each area to find the true cause of your backseat issues.

 

T.E.P.P.

 

Technique: 4ster and others have addressed this already, it is how you move on your skis.

 

Equipment: This is the cause for many fore/aft balance issues that gets overlooked but getting your boots and bindings assessed could reveal it not your technique that is the problem but your alignment along the sagittal plane.  A good instructor or boot fitter should be able to help you here.  Of all the possible causes this one, if it is remedied properly will affect immediate change in your balancing performance.

 

Physiology: This possible cause stems from poor conditioning.  Strengthening the core muscles and the muscles of the legs helps, particularly the tibialus anterior muscle which connects from your big toe to knee and dorsiflexes your ankle.  Strengthen this muscle and your ability to remain centered will improve.

 

Psychology: If the cause is in this area you must change your intent to turn from skiing the fast line slow to skiing the slow line fast.

 

 

Find the real cause to improve your balance.  You can work on technique all you want but if the cause of your backseat issues is caused by poor equipment alignment your efforts will be futile until you fix the alignment issues.  Fix the cause rather than treat the symptom!

This is absolutely spot-on. I had a terrific problem for a long time because I had large calf muscles which extend down below the boot spoiler. The result was to force my leg into a greater forward angle and hence knee bend. Many boots seem to have aggravated the problem because they were built with what was, for me, an excessive forward angle. I was either way forward or in a bent knee stance with my weight back. We pulled out the spoiler, heated the boots etc. I remember putting on boots that had been heated, reefing way back on them as they cooled in order to try to get them to give me a more upright stance. There was also the problem of the upper shell being too small for my calf muscles. having to reposition the buckles so I could c lose the shell and so on. The ideal solution I imagine might have been to buy another pair of boots with the next shell size up and robbing the upper shells for my boots. I never could bring myself to purchase two pairs of boots in order to make one pair fit so I don't know if that would have even worked. I had probably the opposite problem of many skiers who are balancing back against their equipment. My calf muscles were getting larger and larger because I was supporting myself with my musculature as a result of being forced into a bent knee stance. There's a lot more going on there as a bootfitter might guess, like purposefully bending the knees at times to dissipate edgehold because of improper lateral alignment so I am oversimplifying but you can get the picture. Its a complicated science.

 

A good bootfitter who can address these kinds of things is a godsend. Unless you are one of the fortunate few with perfect alignment for whom the boots seem to have been made it seems to me your skiing will benefit from his skills.

post #41 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

Although it is certainly possible to ski from the backseat with ones hands forward, it is pretty rare to see a centered skier with his hands behind him.

Unless that centered skier is doing a drill to test how balanced they are. If it's not comfortable to ski with your hands held together behind your back, you got some work to do. That drill is an Evil Rusty favorite.

post #42 of 42
Assuming your equipment is fine, you have to re-center. this is not something that comes naturally to people, so you're probably missing it.

Make sure you keep your hands in front of you, chest height, at all times.

Practice re-centering: at each transition between turns, bring your body forward by moving the hips forward or pulling your skis back. It is normal to finish turns in the "back seat" which is why you have to re-center.

Practice this a few times before going down the slope: get your body back on the skis and then bring hips forward / pull feet back. Repeat 10 times smile.gif then go down the hill, consciously doing this at every transition.

To make sure you know where you should be at the start of the next turn: on top of your boots, weight in the middle of the boot.

Cheers
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