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Need help with putting toe lifts in boot??

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

Hello. I've been having major backseat problems. I realized that this was actually the 1/2 inch of heel lift i have, plus my boot size being 8 1/2 and stiff. I've heard toe lifts are the way to go since having no heel lifts in still doesnt solve it. I was wondering how should I do this. Tognar.com has boot fitting foam. Can I just put some of this in the toe end of my boots? Won't this put more pressure on the top of my foot, since my toes will be pushed upwards??? i don't want any binding work done. I was looking for an in-boot solution. Thanks! Oh and I'm using volcano footbeds.

post #2 of 7

toe lifts are normally an external solution, a plate put on the sole of the toe end of the boot and then the lug cut back on a router, so not really a DIY option and not possible on all boots


i am guessing that some of the problem is due to lack of ankle joint dorsiflexion if not why do you have a 1/2" heel lift but it could also be related to calf muscle size and or the model of boot


we need a few more stats to give you any kind of helpful answer

height, weight, ability, boot: make, model, size ski and binding, measurement round your calf at the top of the boot, your street shoe size

post #3 of 7



First I would like to welcome you to Epicski and this forum!  Hope we can help dispel some misinformation it sounds like you may have received.


As CEM suggests, we need more info to make accurate suggestions for your personal needs.


We are talking about the sagittal plane affecting your fore/aft balance which has four parameters to evaluate and adjust as needed.


1)ramp angle inside the boot under the foot

2)forward lean inside the boot, works with ramp angle to affect angle between lower leg and foot.

3)delta angle, outside the boot affecting lower leg angle

4)binding mount position, affects stance over ski's sweet spot


When assessing these parameters we need to work in this order by first assessing your ankle dorsiflexion.  This will be difficult without seeing your foot but you can give us a rough idea by sitting in a chair with your feet flat on the floor, lower legs perpendicular to the floor, and your femurs horizontal to the floor.  Then lift the front of your feet off the floor as far as possible and assess how much space exist between your fifth metatarsal head and the floor.  The average angle is about 13 -15 degrees or about the width of two fingers between the fifth and floor for an average length foot.  If you have less you are on the limited side and if you have more than two fingers you are on the hyper mobile side.  This tells your fitter how to adjust your ramp angle and forward lean to match your dorsiflexion needs.  A 1/2 inch heel lift is quite a bit and would reflect a very limited range of dorsiflexion.  If this was placed in error and you do not exhibit very limited dorsiflexion, it could certainly magnify your backseat problem.


Once these two internal angles have been assessed and adjusted we move outside the boot to the delta angle created by the stand height differential of the toe and heel piece of the binding.  It is not uncommon to see a need to add some ramp angle inside the boot to address ankle range of motion, and to externally go the other direction by adding a gas pedal or lift under the toe of boot to change the lower leg angle without affecting the internal angles of the boot.  A static reference used in the shop for delta angle is to look at the skier from the side, clicked into the bindings and standing cuff neutral in their boots.  A basic ball park is to see the knee plumb over the end of the boot toe.  If we see the knee hanging in front of this reference a gas pedal may be needed and if the knee plumbs behind the end of boot toe, a lifter under the heel may be warranted.  Once the ball park stance is achieved in the shop, on hill testing will zero in on the exact needs with delta angle.


Lastly, fore/aft balance is also affected by binding placement.  A binding placement behind the sweet spot of the ski will require a more forward biased stance and conversely a placement ahead of the sweet spot will require a more aft biased stance to remain over the sweet spot.  This is easily visible watching the parknpipers with center mounted skis pass by with their hands by their hips and "keep on truckin" like stance.


So first thing is to assess your ankle range of motion then work up and out of the boot to find your optimum fore/aft balanced home stance.

post #4 of 7
Thread Starter 

Thanks CEM and Bud for helping me out! Well I put in heel lifts because I was having some trouble flexing fully in my boots. I'de have to lean more forward to compensate and my butt would be sticking out behind me. Also I'de get thrown into the backseat in moguls. This was last year though, so I might be stronger now. I'll bust out the boots and the skis if necessary. Right now I'll give  you all my stats. For the flexion test i was able to fit about 2 1/2 fingers under the fifth metatarsal head. (oops with the heel lifts...)    Height: 5 feet 6 1/2 inches   Weight: about 120 pounds   ability: solid advanced( not quite expert yet)  Boot: Lange comps  size  8 1/2 USA flex 110. However the flex was adjustable. I took both pins out in the back so i'm guessing the flex is a 90 now?      Skis: Rossignol Womens B2 Bandits 174 Cm. I'm a 15 year old male, however. i know the bindings are mounted more forward on those skis than with the mens version  Bindings: Rossi Axium 110.




Measure  around my calf at the top of the boot: 1 foot exactly


street shoe size: 10 US


and I have a low arch if that needed

Edited by perplexed - 11/18/12 at 2:35pm
post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 

hey again. Nevermind with eveyrthing, but thanks for help! i went to a master boot tech and they grinded parts of the shell to make the boot softer. Thanks again

post #6 of 7

Don't know where you have been getting all your advice but it is very unlikely to me that grinding to make the boot softer will have any affect on the problem.  5'6" with a size 10 foot, hhhhhmmmmmmmmmm.  I'm guessing only that your boots are too large and the heel lift was to keep your foot anchored.



post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 

Hi Lou. I only wear a size 10 for casual wear as this is the most comfortable. My ski boots are 8 1/2. I was just having problems getting thrown into the backseat. Maybe the stiffness was just too much. If i'm still having problems I'll try a lift under the binding

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › Need help with putting toe lifts in boot??