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Prophet 98 - Volkl Mantra - Blizzard Bonafide

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hi everybody,

 

I am 6'4 187 lbs advanced skier mostly ski in Austria, France and Turkey. I have time to ski 3 weeks every season trying to catch most of the powder that drops :) Unfortunately I get to ski on crud or shallow powder most of the time. I prefer to go off-pist whenever I can. Groomers are just not fun for me..

 

Last year I bought a pair of Volkl Kendo 184. First I thought kendos were perfect for me. I used to love charging the mountain, go fast and carve large turns when I was younger (I used to compete in my country) Now i prefer to have a quicker ski which is more playful, easier to control when skiing in the woods. The kendos performed really bad between the trees, did not have enough floatation in powder, they were hooking up as soon as you shift your weight a little towards the front. On the other side, very good on the groomers, quick edge to edge and very strong and stable in crud.

 

I also got insurance for the skis when I bought (best thing I have ever done!) End of last season, a stupid snowboarder hit me and the front of my skis got delaminated. Now I get to change my skis with any brand I like that has the same price tag on it! :)

 

Since I didn't like to powder performance of Kendo I was first going towards the Mantra's. The tip rocker and extra 1 cm waist probably brings the powder performance to another level. But I still have my concerns on playfullness. I will probably go for the 191cm.. Im sure they will be very good on powder at high speeds. But what if I get into the woods or I wanna make quick turns?

 

My other choices is Line Prophet 98. I guess they are a little easier to turn than Mantras? Right? More flex will be easier to turn yet the metal sheet will prevent chattering at high speed. But they are heavy! How will they perform in the trees? Do they float as good as the Mantras?

 

Last choice is Blizzard Bonafide, I have been reading very good reviews but since they have only 180cm model, I doubt it will be the right choice for me.

 

Can someone who tried all 3 skis I mentioned compare powder, crud performance, stability at high speed, playfullnes and carving abilities for me please?

 

Thank you very much for your comments.

 

Can

post #2 of 20

 Hi and welcome to you, I also ski mainly in Europe.I have not skied all the skis you mention. I have tried the bonafide but this guy says it better than me- http://theskimonster.com/blogs/posts/2013-blizzard-bonafide-ski-review/

 Volkl seem to be a marmite brand you either love them or hate them! Personally I find them hard work (might be my technique tho-lol) they do seem a good bit stiffer than most tho and the ones you are on now are far better on the groomed stuff, I'm totally not surprised given your build as well, that you find them a slog in powder. The mantras are much more of an off piste, crud eating entity, if you can demo them you be surprised they are supposed to be nimble and responsive. I've not had that much exposure to the line skis so I can't even point you to a decent review-sorry.

 I'm sure some of the other members will jump in with a more valid viewpoint soon.

 Where are you planning to ski this year? I'm hoping to go back to Sweden before Easter, the last 3 years we have caught massive dumps there, because its so quiet there it rarely gets tracked out. The backside of Areskutan is awesome! Might be somewhere to bookmark?

post #3 of 20

I currently own the Bonafide, have owned two Mantras and have skied the P-98 a lot. First, the Mantra is stiffer than the Kendo so despite the extra width, it is not much better in powder. Second, the Bonafide is a firm ski but not planky stiff like the Mantra, and it is dramatically better in soft or mixed conditions. BTW the Bonafide comes in a 187 so no worries there. Third, the P-98 is a super fun and playful ski and is the better of the three in soft and mixed conditions as far as manuverability goes. However, it is not quite as stable so that's a tradeoff that you'll have to think about.

 

Three good skis but dramatically different.

 

SJ

post #4 of 20
Hi, from Europe also! Had the Bonafide last season for 2 weeks in Ischgl and Serfaus. Conditions from soft snow to semi-hard groomers. The Bonies made me smile the whole day smile.gif
So back in my hometown I ordered the Bonies for next season. Now they are waiting for me at my local skishop. Can't wait to get back on them next January in Les 3 Vallees .
So in my opinion .... Go for the 187 sized Bonnies.
post #5 of 20

 Welcome Koos, nice to see relative newbies joining in the discussion.icon14.gif

post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 

Thank you very much for all the comments and sorry for my late reply.

 

SierraJim, thank you very much, very clear explanation. I think I will go for the Prophets or Bonafides, but I got one more question to ask :)

 

 

Here is my last criteria to take the final decision. I have been skiing with cambered (non-rockered) skis until now and I am an aggressive skier. Previous skis were Atomic Beta Ride 10.20 2003 and Volkl Kendo 2012. Both conventional camber and stiff. I used to compete when I was younger and I have learned to ski in Austria, where there is a lot of icy and steep off-pistes. That is the reason of my aggressive Austrian style. I liked the kendos in groomed surfaces and crud but they were awefull in powder and trees. Having this explained here is my last question  :) Do you think the medium flex Line Prophet 98 will be too soft for me? I am 191cm and 85 kg. I like to go fast but also love to make various turn types, sudden tight turns to long super G carvings. I also like to ski muggles and trees making small jumps and drops. I hope I was able to explain my skiing style. Can someone experienced comment wheater the bonafides or prophets are more suitable for me? I have been reading and watching reviews and so confused now :)

 

Thank you very much for your kind support and comments.

 

All the best

 

Can

post #7 of 20

Just a comment: If you see yourself as having an "aggressive Austrian style," I'd demo any ski with tail rocker before you buy it. You might like it, might now. Second, the Mantra IME, is fine in trees or soft bumps; they just need to be skied with attention, with a weight forward pivot with the weight forward. The taper allows you to break the tail loose pretty easily, and they're light enough to be pretty nimble. In firm bumps, different story. Too stiff. Also not really a ski to take air off pillows. Again, too stiff and the tail wil punish you if you land wrong. As far as powder, no in the sense its flex, which will make it harder to bend into a turn at a given speed, but it'll float just as well as any other 98 mm ski at the same speed with the same weight on it. Physics, y'know. 

 

I am not championing Mantras. They're not the ski for many people. But I'm saying that you may or may not be "many people," and frankly, IMO, SJ and the other Start Haus folks spends a weird amount of time warning people off a ski they sell, so I play Devil's Advocate and spend a weird amount of time saying Mantra's are not the Anti-Christ of skis. (In reality I suspect they assume - correctly - that most people who are asking for a 98 mm ski are looking for a particular set of do-all attributes even if they don't know it, and have a certain range of skills, and that the Mantra is not for them. And notice that you said you didn't like the Kendo in the trees. (Might make more sense if they added that do-all disclaimer, rather than just trash Mantras. Or perhaps I'm just flat wrong, and the Mantra's a piece of Germanic antiquated sh*t, no good for anything except luring tourists. biggrin.gif

 

But the actual reviews elsewhere tend to be significantly higher than on Epic. You should check. Of course, the reviews of the Bonafide are mostly A - A+ everywhere, so I guess by that criterion we should all, every man, woman, and child above the age of 5, buy Bonafides and just forget about any other ski in its range.  th_dunno-1[1].gif  No, seriously, I've skied some near relatives, and I'd bet they're the best all around 98 out there, no contest. But not everyone wants an all-around. Some focus on a particular trait or mission. 

 

So a lot of this is about which you are. If you want an all around ski, that does everything pretty well, that's one ski. If you want a ski that really really loves trees, you'll have to give up something on hard groomers. That something may not be grip per se (whatever that is), but feel or precision or pop or the ability to vary turn radius. So another ski. Conversely, if you want a ski that carves up groomers like your Beta Rides, you'll have to give up something in the trees or air. So another ski. At the end of the day you don't defeat physics....


Edited by beyond - 12/18/12 at 10:18pm
post #8 of 20

Cnzip, is your alter ego Voldermort? I notice you "like to ski muggles"

post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnzlp View Post

Thank you very much for all the comments and sorry for my late reply.

 

SierraJim, thank you very much, very clear explanation. I think I will go for the Prophets or Bonafides, but I got one more question to ask :)

 

 

 Do you think the medium flex Line Prophet 98 will be too soft for me? I am 191cm and 85 kg. I like to go fast but also love to make various turn types, sudden tight turns to long super G carvings. I also like to ski muggles and trees making small jumps and drops. I hope I was able to explain my skiing style. Can someone experienced comment wheater the bonafides or prophets are more suitable for me?

 

Can

 

Good question and the answer is probably not. When all the blather about flip this and rocker that is done, the most important criteria is flex. The flex determines more for you than any other single factor. In all things related to this question, there are tradeoffs both pro and con on stiffness. The decision that you have to make is one of priorities. If you are prioritizing speed and power, then you will sacrifice playful and nimble. There are degrees in everything and while the Line is a little softer than the Bonafide, it is not a huge difference. While I own the Bonafide, I like the Prophet a lot as well. Most of the ski makers realize the importance of this class of ski and many of their best efforts lie in this width range. There are lot of really good skis in this range and despite the nuanced differences, I find that I am equally happy skiing on most of them. I think either the Line or the Blizzi would be a good choice.

 

The rocker question is a preference thing as well but also has a little to do with skiing style. If your normal skiing style is with your feet pretty close together and your skis relatively flat on the snow, then a ski with more rocker may well feel a bit odd at first. However, if you ski with your skis on a high enough angle to have the edges engaged most of the time, you will not likely have much of an issue. Most of the skis in the (approx) 98mm range have some tip rocker but only the Bonafide has tail rocker. I think the key for that ski is that the amount of tail rocker is very small. In any case, both skis have a nice cambered section in the main body of the ski and both ski very well. In the past few years we have sold many, many hundreds of pairs of the various 98mm rockered skis and a lot of those customers ski with a pretty flat ski style. None have come back and asked for a fully cambered ski. When done properly and in moderation, rocker can do very good things for a ski in this width range. When one gets into the narrower categories of ski where the premium is on hard snow performance rather than mixed snow versatility, then the question becomes more debatable.

 

SJ

post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 

First of all I would like to thank all of you for your kind interest and comments.

 

@ beyond

 

you are right, in my previous posts, I described a ski that can do everything perfect :) Which is impossible for what concerns physics.. I think I will have to compromise in groomer performance if I want to enjoy skiing in the woods.. On the other hand, as I mentioned previously, I am used to stiff skis.. That kind of skis gave shape to my skiing style over the years. I like to work on the skis and get the energy back when I push them on the edge. Kendos were perfect in terms of pop and stability at speed. Just like a race ski. I wonder if the tip rocker in the 2013 model changed the powder performance dramatically? I was able to control the kendos when I concentrated on balancing my weight. The only problem was the inevitable hooking when I made a little mistake.. I loved the strong feeling under my feet with the volkls. I guess Mantras will be almost the same..

 

Unfortunately until now, I did not have the chance to try different types of skis with new technology. I wont be able to demo the skis either, since we do not have such a variety in Turkey. And I am afraid of getting dissapointed of rockered skis. I want edge hold when I need. I decided to give the link to a video I recorded with my kendos. Maybe that can help you guys understand the way I ski.

 

video taken last year, skiing with kendo 184

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx5_-XbzJyo

 

video taken in 2006, skiing with atomic beta ride 10.20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRxRe5Lwj_Q

 

 

I know I am being too picky :) But since you guys are so keen on giving comments, I decided to ask as much as I could :) I do not know people with so much knowledge. Thanks, I appreciate a lot.

 

@lilywhite

 

sorry, english is not my primary language :) I thought bumps were also called muggles, maybe I did a grammar mistake :P

 

@SJ

 

I definately want a ski with a slight tip rocker. Not sure about the tail rocker. Last year before buying the kendos, I had the chance to demo K2 Hard Side. I did not love them, although I managed to get used to in one day. The turn radius was too large and the skis did not give want I wanted when laid on edge. I would be very dissapointed if one of those three skis are similar. Camber is a must for me! About tail rocker, that I don't know. But if the tail rocker will reduce the energy I get back when I a push my skis than I better go with a flat tailed ski.

 

Yesterday I went to a local ski shop in Istanbul, and checked 2012 Bonafides. I liked the rigidity and stiffness, very similar to Kendos. I guess that's because of the metal sheet. I wish I could demo them! I want to see how good they are when skiing fast and aggressive.

 

I think there is not more to say about what I need or want :) Now I have to make a decision. I will either get the mantras and enjoy the groomers like I used to or I will go for the bonies and praise when we have fresh snow off-trail.

post #11 of 20

cnzip, it was quite clear you meant moguls, it just tickled me, you spelt them muggles which of course is a Harry Potter term describing non magical people. It certainly was not intended to poke fun at either your English (which is certainly far superior to my German/French) or your spelling which although wrong/funny did not cause any confusion. My own spelling is at times questionable and my grammar is often appalling (and English IS my native tongue!) 

 Hope you saw it as childish banter not an attack on you personally xxx

post #12 of 20

Pick one and love it! Both the Prophet 98 and the Bonafide are great skis. I'm not as tall as you but a little heavier and both skis have performed exceptionally for me. Sierra Jim is exactly right about the respective trade offs. The differences are ultimately pretty subtle.

post #13 of 20

Jim gives a great description of all skis but I agree with several of beyond's points as well. I think a good deal of the warnings associated with the Mantras are that they received so much hype and attention a few years back (and frankly still get a lot) that many people bought the ski without considering it's respective strengths and weaknesses. I would definitely agreed the Prophets are probably the most forgiving of the bunch. You will find they are pretty nimble and easily smear turns but don't expect them to carve as well as the other two. I've never skied the Bonafides so I defer to Jim's extensive knowledge in that department. I have owned and loved a few pairs of Mantras though. I think the Mantra is a great ski if you lean towards an aggressive, edge style. I have raced in the past and I found the Mantra to essentially be a fat GS ski that holds a laser edge. You will get tossed in any hard bumps and it will take effort (and lots of speed) to ski any powder deeper than 8 or so inches.

 

In all honesty I don't think the Mantras are right for you. I have skied the 191's in the woods and done fine, but it's evident that is not the ski's strength. I found the Prophet's to be more nimble but not as much fun to ski in wider areas. It sounds like you're looking for a 'daily driver' type of ski, and if you are really leaning on powder performance I would honestly say go higher than 100mm waist. There are a ton of skis now that can hold great edge on the groomers that are 110mm+ and that is where you will really begin to notice the difference in deeper snow. Still, if those are your only three options then (despite never skiing them) I would recommend the Bonafide, because based off what I've heard they are a solid middle ground between the Prophet's and the Mantras.

post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hello Everyone,

 

I just received an e-mail from the shop I bought the kendos. I had asked my contact if he could provide the prophet 98's in exchange to my broken kendos couple of weeks ago. Now he says that he already arrange the insurance for the Prophets. So... thats it :) I cannot choose anymore.. I will get the prophets.. It's sad that prophets were the least I wanted between those 3 skis. Anyways I hope I will like it's advantages over the other two. It was great to receive all your comments and suggestions. Thank you all, wish you a good season.

 

All the best

 

Can

post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnzlp View Post

Hello Everyone,

 

I just received an e-mail from the shop I bought the kendos. I had asked my contact if he could provide the prophet 98's in exchange to my broken kendos couple of weeks ago. Now he says that he already arrange the insurance for the Prophets. So... thats it :) I cannot choose anymore.. I will get the prophets.. It's sad that prophets were the least I wanted between those 3 skis. Anyways I hope I will like it's advantages over the other two. It was great to receive all your comments and suggestions. Thank you all, wish you a good season.

 

All the best

 

Can

Hi Cnzlp.  Definitely don't be sad.  The Prophets are great skis, well-reviewed here and elsewhere and are a great solution for what you can to the board looking for (better performance and float in powder, trees and crud over your Kendos, decent hold on groomers, nimble in the bumps).  I have skied the precursor, the Prophet 100, for the last 4 years and it rips - and fits that description perfectly.  And the P98 is an even better ski in every dimension.  I think that you'll be really happy - and don't get it wrong - just because the P98 is less stiff than the Mantra, and more forgiving of a flex pattern, it isn't a wet noodle.  It is an advanced/expert's ski, for someone who likes a solid feeling ride.  In the ~100 class, all considered, it falls somewhere in the middle on stiffness (the 3 that you are considering here all land in the stiffer/damper side of the ledger) and the metal matrix under the topsheet, combined with sidewall under foot give it a nice damp feeling.  For what you came to the board asking for, you ended up with a great choice, maybe the the best ski of the 3 for what you want.   The Mantra has its fans, and there is a ton of hysteria over the Bonafides (and for the record I like the Bones a lot - the hype is well-deserved, imo), but the Prophet is another tremendous ski and the best of the lot in some dimensions (bumps, nimble in tight spaces).  Read SJ's post again - he knows what he is talking about, has no skin in the game and he offers you data that should only make you smile.  Forget about the other skis on the market - they are great, demo them sometime if you are still curious - and enjoy your Prophets.  They are a special ski and tons of people who know how to ski and know what they are talking about are thrilled with them.  Different Chateaus, but both first growth.  Enjoy.

post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewyM View Post

Hi Cnzlp.  Definitely don't be sad.  The Prophets are great skis, well-reviewed here and elsewhere and are a great solution for what you can to the board looking for (better performance and float in powder, trees and crud over your Kendos, decent hold on groomers, nimble in the bumps).  I have skied the precursor, the Prophet 100, for the last 4 years and it rips - and fits that description perfectly.  And the P98 is an even better ski in every dimension.  I think that you'll be really happy - and don't get it wrong - just because the P98 is less stiff than the Mantra, and more forgiving of a flex pattern, it isn't a wet noodle.  It is an advanced/expert's ski, for someone who likes a solid feeling ride.  In the ~100 class, all considered, it falls somewhere in the middle on stiffness (the 3 that you are considering here all land in the stiffer/damper side of the ledger) and the metal matrix under the topsheet, combined with sidewall under foot give it a nice damp feeling.  For what you came to the board asking for, you ended up with a great choice, maybe the the best ski of the 3 for what you want.   The Mantra has its fans, and there is a ton of hysteria over the Bonafides (and for the record I like the Bones a lot - the hype is well-deserved, imo), but the Prophet is another tremendous ski and the best of the lot in some dimensions (bumps, nimble in tight spaces).  Read SJ's post again - he knows what he is talking about, has no skin in the game and he offers you data that should only make you smile.  Forget about the other skis on the market - they are great, demo them sometime if you are still curious - and enjoy your Prophets.  They are a special ski and tons of people who know how to ski and know what they are talking about are thrilled with them.  Different Chateaus, but both first growth.  Enjoy.

LewyM is exactly right! I've skied each of the skis you have discussed and selected the Prophet 98 for the very reasons Sierry Jim offers. Love your new Prophets--for good reason! They are terrific skis.

post #17 of 20

I just picked up some Influence 105's this year and they are a great ski, you won't be disappointed in the Prophets.  Keep us posted how they turn out for you
 

post #18 of 20

hi cnzlp,

 

after all that, 

I am looking forward to seeing your review about P-98 and also your videosmile.gif  if possible..

and also if it is possible for you to mention name of your shop in Istanbul selling Line, I'm glad...smile.gif

 

enjoy your P-98s

post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 

@ LewyM

 

Thank you very much for your comments. You totally resolved all my doubts :) Reading dozens of reviews (some of which were negative) made me think that I had made a wrong choice. But you made me feel much better. Thanks again for the correct vocabulary that made me smile :) Now I am confident that Prophets will be perfect for me!!

 

@FlashGordon

 

Thanks for the backup :) I have been watching and reading Sierra Jim's reviews and he is the best. So much experience and knowledge I would love to work in his shop :)

 

@randomwalker

 

 

There is not a skishop selling Line skis in Turkey. I bought my skis from Innsbrug/Austria. And the insurance is made by a German company, the same skishop will replace my broken skis. The prohpets will be delivered within this week. And I will be glad to post my review on the 1st of march when I come back from 1 week ski holiday in Chamonix :)) I will definately shoot some videos maybe I can make a video review :)

 

thank you all for your comments. I am glad to join this community that shares valuable information and genuine reviews in contrary to web-sites that copy and paste manufacturer comments for their own skis :) Hope to discuss another subject soon.

 

All the best

 

Can Ozalp

post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnzlp View Post

Hi everybody,

 

I am 6'4 187 lbs advanced skier mostly ski in Austria, France and Turkey. I have time to ski 3 weeks every season trying to catch most of the powder that drops :) Unfortunately I get to ski on crud or shallow powder most of the time. I prefer to go off-pist whenever I can. Groomers are just not fun for me..

 

Last year I bought a pair of Volkl Kendo 184. First I thought kendos were perfect for me. I used to love charging the mountain, go fast and carve large turns when I was younger (I used to compete in my country) Now i prefer to have a quicker ski which is more playful, easier to control when skiing in the woods. The kendos performed really bad between the trees, did not have enough floatation in powder, they were hooking up as soon as you shift your weight a little towards the front. On the other side, very good on the groomers, quick edge to edge and very strong and stable in crud.

 

I also got insurance for the skis when I bought (best thing I have ever done!) End of last season, a stupid snowboarder hit me and the front of my skis got delaminated. Now I get to change my skis with any brand I like that has the same price tag on it! :)

 

Since I didn't like to powder performance of Kendo I was first going towards the Mantra's. The tip rocker and extra 1 cm waist probably brings the powder performance to another level. But I still have my concerns on playfullness. I will probably go for the 191cm.. Im sure they will be very good on powder at high speeds. But what if I get into the woods or I wanna make quick turns?

 

My other choices is Line Prophet 98. I guess they are a little easier to turn than Mantras? Right? More flex will be easier to turn yet the metal sheet will prevent chattering at high speed. But they are heavy! How will they perform in the trees? Do they float as good as the Mantras?

 

Last choice is Blizzard Bonafide, I have been reading very good reviews but since they have only 180cm model, I doubt it will be the right choice for me.

 

Can someone who tried all 3 skis I mentioned compare powder, crud performance, stability at high speed, playfullnes and carving abilities for me please?

 

Thank you very much for your comments.

 

Can

Line Prophet 98 will be perfect IMO

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