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Boot size and Binding question.

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

  This summer I bought some new ski boots (Nordica Double Six) and they are the same size as my old ones. I have Marker Squire bindings on Atomic Blogs. My old boots were 26.5 and these are 26.5, the shell length on the two is 3mm difference. The new boots are 305mm and the old were 302mm. Both boots snap in just fine but I don't know if there is more to it I need to worry about than just that. Also, if need be could I make a small adjustment in the heel peice binding to account for the 3mm?

 

Thanks

post #2 of 14

 It's always worth going to the ski shop and asking them to check the binding release when changing boots, won't take them 5 mins and gives you piece of mind that you won't screw your knees first time out.

post #3 of 14

If changing boots, II would double check the DIN chart (DIN setting is a function of boot sole length), and I would check that the forward pressure is properly set for the new length.

post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

If changing boots, II would double check the DIN chart (DIN setting is a function of boot sole length), and I would check that the forward pressure is properly set for the new length.

 

Thanks for pointing this out.  I just got new boots and they are 11mm shorter.  I knew I had to adjust the position but forgot about the release setting.  I went up .5.  Now a 7 even in the over 50 range.

post #5 of 14

3mm can mess up your forward pressure...

post #6 of 14

http://www.dinsetting.com/

 

Check it out.  Would recommend it for any skier to learn about you settings even just for a reference point.  You can quickly see what the BSL does to DIN settings.

post #7 of 14

Interesting. Even at 3+ that chart puts me at 7 with my comfy boots (8 with my  "two sizes too small " race boots) 

 

The DIN calculator only goes up to 3+, There is absolutely no way 7 would come anywhere close to keeping me (or anyone else my weight) in the binding when skiing on rough terrain at high speed.  8.5 works for me most of the time.  (binding comes off when it should, stays on when it should).  I guess that makes me a 3++ skier.   

 

I don't think you will find a 174 lb  DH or SG racer using a DIN of 7.  What are they, Type 3+++++ skiers?

 

 

On a side note, I'm sure they have the regression equations that were used to come up with the steps.  It  would nice to be able to calculate a value instead of jumping up/down to the next step when your boots go from 310 to 315 mm, or your weight goes from 147 to 148 lbs.  

post #8 of 14

According to the chart I'm a 8.5.  Last season i lowered it to 7.5 because of a knee injury in Feb and the first day out I double ejected going off a little bump on a traverse. Raised it to 8 and never happened again.  Funny how that .5 DIN can make a huge difference...

post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

According to the chart I'm a 8.5.  Last season i lowered it to 7.5 because of a knee injury in Feb and the first day out I double ejected going off a little bump on a traverse. Raised it to 8 and never happened again.  Funny how that .5 DIN can make a huge difference...

Yep.  I've had the ski let go at 8.5 when I accidentally got the tip stuck in the snow starting up the lift ride while sitting in the chair .  I was fine except for a little embarrassment redface.gif .  I'm pretty sure my knee wouldn't have enjoyed having the ski torqued off at 9 though.

post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Interesting. Even at 3+ that chart puts me at 7 with my comfy boots (8 with my  "two sizes too small " race boots) 

 

The DIN calculator only goes up to 3+, There is absolutely no way 7 would come anywhere close to keeping me (or anyone else my weight) in the binding when skiing on rough terrain at high speed.  8.5 works for me most of the time.  (binding comes off when it should, stays on when it should).  I guess that makes me a 3++ skier.   

 

I don't think you will find a 174 lb  DH or SG racer using a DIN of 7.  What are they, Type 3+++++ skiers?

 

 

On a side note, I'm sure they have the regression equations that were used to come up with the steps.  It  would nice to be able to calculate a value instead of jumping up/down to the next step when your boots go from 310 to 315 mm, or your weight goes from 147 to 148 lbs.  

Ghost,

 

RH posted a chart comparing the release values of the DIN values for diffierent manufactures (he didn't include the names legal reasons) but what is interesting depending on the binding manufacutred the actual release value is different for the same DIN settings.  An 8 on one is different from 8 on another which explains why some bindings require higher settings.

 

Have to go and see the test in real life once....it's got my interest.

post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Interesting. Even at 3+ that chart puts me at 7 with my comfy boots (8 with my  "two sizes too small " race boots) 

 

The DIN calculator only goes up to 3+, There is absolutely no way 7 would come anywhere close to keeping me (or anyone else my weight) in the binding when skiing on rough terrain at high speed.  8.5 works for me most of the time.  (binding comes off when it should, stays on when it should).  I guess that makes me a 3++ skier.   

 

I don't think you will find a 174 lb  DH or SG racer using a DIN of 7.  What are they, Type 3+++++ skiers?

 

 

On a side note, I'm sure they have the regression equations that were used to come up with the steps.  It  would nice to be able to calculate a value instead of jumping up/down to the next step when your boots go from 310 to 315 mm, or your weight goes from 147 to 148 lbs.  

Ghost,

 

RH posted a chart comparing the release values of the DIN values for diffierent manufactures (he didn't include the names legal reasons) but what is interesting depending on the binding manufacutred the actual release value is different for the same DIN settings.  An 8 on one is different from 8 on another which explains why some bindings require higher settings.

 

Have to go and see the test in real life once....it's got my interest.

If I'm thinking about the same post, the really interesting thing is that one manufacture (who shall remain nameless) could have a competition race binding that actually has better retention than other manufacturer's similar bindings when set at a DIN release below 9 (say 8.5biggrin.gif), but  has less favourable retention characteristics  than the others when set at a much higher DIN (for example at 14 or 16)).  I think the torque is the same (as per DIN) but the work/energy differs due to movement and ability to absorb impact).  Which could explain why some folks (who may set their bindings higher don't like that particular brand, but other's who set their DINs nearer to the middle of the scale like them fine. 

 

BTW I'm very very grateful that old metal Tyrolia bindings keep your boots in the toe piece when you are recovering at 60 mph in moguls  in the rumble seat ( For you young folk, the rumble seat is behind the back seat and outside the car here's a '38 Chev with a Rumble Seat  http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/f190/16886d1340331946t-my-1938-chevrolet-coupe-rumble-seat-20499.jpg ).  Thanks for that Tyrolia!

post #12 of 14

I agree, loved my old 360's for those moments.

 

Love my new PX15's but am told that they are sensitive to correct heel preload on the toe.  Still haven't found anything yet, but give the source it must be considered.  Currently love the performance to date (mine are set for 9 should be 9.5 but so far so good).

 

So much for the old days when you wacked the boot with your hand to judge on how well the binding was set biggrin.gif or for that matter when racing you cranked down the screw for the toe to lock the binding to prevent prerelease (not that it worked all the time) eek.gif leg broke or binding released when it shouldn't.  Life was so much easier and the ACL was the least of your worries.

post #13 of 14

For checking forward pressure on Marker's the end of the screw at the back of the heel piece that adjusts the fore-aft position of the heel  should be flush with the back of the binding case. Adjust the heel piece with the boot out of the binding, check it with the boot in the binding.  What happens is that the heel piece moves back against a spring when the boot is placed in the binding, while the screw itself stays put.  You don't need a shop to adjust DIN or forward pressure but you do need a shop to release test the bindings, which is a very good idea (which I don't do, like a lot of things I'm supposed to do--I don't have a week's worth of food and batteries for example.)

 

My weight goes back and forth on either side of 175. Do I change my DIN back and forth? No, I keep it at a number which  is between the DIN for those two weights which I know from experience works for me. And I lie to myself about my age. The reason that DIN is not calculated using a skier's exact weight, height, and BSL is that release value is not an exact science, and no DIN setting will prevent all injuries and all pre-releases. People ski differently, in different snow conditions.People's bones and ligaments are different.  DIN gives a reasonable approximation of a reasonably safe release value.  More importantly it gives legal cover to ski shops and binding manufacturers.  By having an independent industry standard, as long as the binding is set in accordance with the standard everyone's butt is covered.

post #14 of 14

Great discussion!  So, OLDGOAT -  just want to confirm what you said.  I just received my brand-spank'n-new pair of Kastle MX88's with Marker Griffon bindings.  I told the shop to mount them to my 304mm boots, but it appears that the heel binding piece is just a bit too far forward.  The heel of my boot just barely fits inside the rim of the back binding's heel cup and seems to push the heel binding piece too far back when the boot is forced down into place.  SO ---- I should back off the heel binding screw a couple of notches and then check it with the boot in the binding.....adjusting the back binding position until the adjustment screw sits exactly flush with the binding body.  Is that right?

 

My ski has a little mark which I can see between the toe and heel binding pieces which I think marks the place where the center of your boot should line up. (i.e. center of balance point on the ski).  I think this is supposed to line up with a similar mark on my boot...correct?   I assume the boot mark should always be right on the ski mark or withing a couple of millimeters of it, correct?  

 

Thanks!

(p.s. - I'm SUPER psyched to get on my new skis!!!!!  They look great and will likely ski even better than they look!  Now...we just need snow!)

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