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How much difference do 100% Fluoro overlays make?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

How much difference do expensive 100% fluoro overlays (e.g. Swix Cera F) make?  Is the effect noticeable by the skier while skiing vs. fluorocarbon wax alone?  Or is it only noticeable on timed runs where it may make a fraction of a second improvement?

post #2 of 11
An overlay is normally only used for a race run. It gives you extra "juice" out of the gate and the first part of the course. Typically the benefit has gone by the end of the course (depending on which product you are using) and you are running on your underlying wax mix. It is noticeable in the early sections - but of course you can lose the benefits with a couple of screwed up turns! I normally save the high end stuff for speed events but in gs I will typically use some race rocket or similar before the second run.
post #3 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by renenkel View Post

How much difference do expensive 100% fluoro overlays (e.g. Swix Cera F) make?  Is the effect noticeable by the skier while skiing vs. fluorocarbon wax alone?  Or is it only noticeable on timed runs where it may make a fraction of a second improvement?


Difference is big, but unless you have huge number of race kilometers in your legs, and on top of that really great feeling for your skis, you won't see difference yourself. I knew (and waxed for) way too many WC skiers, who had absolutely no ski feel, yet they were doing good. On the other hand, I had few athletes, who were nothing special (me included while still racing), who had great ski feel and I know for myself, I could tell if ski is good or not, after 5 meters (or not even that much) on it. So being in top on WC doesn't mean you have this feeling. That's reason, why everyone test these things with speed traps (and numerous repeating runs), as that's only sure thing to tell. Especially when things get complicated, and there is very little difference between one combo and the other.

For recreational skiing (even racing), this is waste of money, as 1. most of low level GS and even SG (and all SL), are not set so, that you benefit much of good wax, and 2. 99.9% of recreational racers can improve their performance much more with something else then 50eur wax job (for single run).

post #4 of 11

Big difference. I used it lat year for a Super-G race. To get to the start of our Super-G, you have to go up this knoll. For my first inspection run, I went flying up and over the knoll and had to hockey stop to keep from going through the start (first run on fresh overlay). 2nd inspection run I just made it to the top, coming in for my race run, I had to skate the final few feet to reach the top of the knoll. You can definitely feel it. In the liftline if you have it right, it is like you are standing in a puddle of oil, one pole in front and one behind to keep from moving.

post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Big difference. I used it lat year for a Super-G race. To get to the start of our Super-G, you have to go up this knoll. For my first inspection run, I went flying up and over the knoll and had to hockey stop to keep from going through the start (first run on fresh overlay). 2nd inspection run I just made it to the top, coming in for my race run, I had to skate the final few feet to reach the top of the knoll. You can definitely feel it. In the liftline if you have it right, it is like you are standing in a puddle of oil, one pole in front and one behind to keep from moving.

biggrin.gif. Which is why you apply at the start !
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post


biggrin.gif. Which is why you apply at the start !

 

For sure, but hard to iron there. The people that are actually fast bring their skis up all wrapped and coddled and train on trainers, but of course, you know that.

post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

For sure, but hard to iron there. The people that are actually fast bring their skis up all wrapped and coddled and train on trainers, but of course, you know that.

Whaaaat? You mean you don't have the generator, wax table and iron at the start?!! frown.gif

Actually when talking about overlays I mean the stuff that you do apply at the start, whether rub on or spray on eg nano speed, speed block, sprays. Etc. Which give you an extra boost for the first part of the course. Any thing ironed on is done on the prepped skis as you say.
We typically run a couple of SGs on the same day so being able to do a reprep on the hill with one of these products is almost essential even if you do have a separate race and training pair. Even in gs it does make a difference to add a little something for the second run (may of course be more psychological there!)

While I have used some of the pure fluoro powders and granules, never had that much success with them so tend to stick to the other stuff
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
 In the liftline if you have it right, it is like you are standing in a puddle of oil, one pole in front and one behind to keep from moving.

 

That signifies low breakaway speed - as in what rec. XC skiers want -  doesn't really tell you much about top end speed. 

post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by renenkel View Post

How much difference do expensive 100% fluoro overlays (e.g. Swix Cera F) make?  Is the effect noticeable by the skier while skiing vs. fluorocarbon wax alone?  Or is it only noticeable on timed runs where it may make a fraction of a second improvement?

 

At the start it's great - over the entire run it is -less- noticeable than aerodynamic effects (loose flappy clothing &c)

post #10 of 11

I still have a tiny piece of Swix Cera F Pilot Line F20 that I use as a rub on/cork for recreational spring skiing when it is above freezing. It is fantastic in very wet snow but must be reapplied for every run.

 

I bought a 40g bar for $79 over 15 years ago. I found Swix CeraF Wetturbo FC10XWS on line today at $109 for a 20g bar.

post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

At the start it's great - over the entire run it is -less- noticeable than aerodynamic effects (loose flappy clothing &c)

Exactly!,  that is the value of it.  

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