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Incorrect Binding Mount

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
I bought a new pair of the 2012 Blizzard Cochise at skis.com over the summer. Now I finally got around to buying some new boots and bindings, and had the skis mounted by the shop where I purchased the boots and bindings.

When I got the skis back, I noticed that one ski binding was mounted about 4 cm back of recommended, and the other ski was correctly mounted. I told the shop, and they apologized and started discussing options for me (they offered a huge $50 store credit or possibly new skis), but then the shop tech noticed that the recommended mount mark on the ski that was incorrectly mounted was placed incorrectly on the ski.

The shop tech then called Blizzard about this, and Blizzard said that they would replace the skis, but didn't have any 185 Cochise in stock, so they said that they could probably credit me at the store where I purchased the skis. However, nothing definite was set up with Blizzard, and I need to call them in order to figure out the details.

Should the ski shop still be accepting some responsibility and compensating me in some way for not double checking the mount mark on the ski?
What can/should Blizzard do for me?
Any other advice on what you would do in my situation is also appreciated.
post #2 of 47

Blizzard should send you new skis.  If they are out of 2012, they should send 2013 ... customer service.

post #3 of 47

I would have the shop handle this, they prob have a better/faster relation with blizzard and should be able to get you a new ski in a reasonable time. I don't think they can be held accountable if the mount was in the correct location as indicated by the marker. This is a Blizzard mistake.
 

just my 2 cents.

post #4 of 47

Agree that best option would have the shop to try to get new skis from Blizzard for you, this is a warranty kinda issue. One could argue that the shop tech could have noticed that, but there is no question that the skis were bad any.

post #5 of 47

Agreed, you should not be coming out of this situation without a new pair of skis.

post #6 of 47
Thread Starter 
The shop doesn't actually carry Blizzard skis which is slightly inconvenient, but when I go to pick up the re-remounted skis I am planning on having the shop tech call Blizzard again in order to work out a deal.

I'd be pretty happy with an equivalent amount of store credit at the online store from Blizzard, maybe I can get a new pair of skis. However, I would not say no to a new pair of the 2013 Cochise either.
post #7 of 47
I wouldn't blame the shop for the mismount, but the tech should have caught this at inspection before they were sent out. Really though, skis.com should take care of warranty issues for the customer.
post #8 of 47

Is it possible that skis.com was running a special sale on the skis as factory seconds due to the botched mount mark graphics?  I'm still trying to fathom how one ski could be correct with the other one being incorrect.  Do the serial numbers on the skis match?  Could they be a mismatched pair to start with from different factory runs?  Just how great of a deal did you get on them?  If it seemed too good to be true it probably was..

post #9 of 47

If skis are factory blems, they should be disclosed as such, but I don't think that is the case here. I know I will measure EVERY ski when mounting and not take it for granted be it a graphic or sidewall indication. 

post #10 of 47

MEASURE TWICE, DRILL ONCE!  

 

Curious why Blizz' didn't offer a 2013. They really have great customer service. 

post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

If skis are factory blems, they should be disclosed as such, but I don't think that is the case here. I know I will measure EVERY ski when mounting and not take it for granted be it a graphic or sidewall indication. 


How is it possible for two skis from the same pair to have the center line marked 4 cm DIFFERENTLY and not be blems?th_dunno-1[1].gif  OP has one ski with the center mark in one spot and the other ski with the center mark 4 cm different. 

post #12 of 47

given what did happen, I have to surmise that the mounting lines are printed on while the ski is on a conveyer belt with a stop station. one ski moved past the printing station for whatever reason, and no one was monitoring that part of the assembly line. just a guess.  Phil, it's a shop guy's instinct to put the skis next to each other and look at them I imagine. I have the time of course, but I look at them quite a while before drilling them. BRAND new, an' all.  Looked at these all evening, posed them, dressed them up, slowly peeled off the plastic, looked at them some more, poured a beer and drank a toast to thembiggrin.gif. no way I would rush into boring them.

1000

post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


How is it possible for two skis from the same pair to have the center line marked 4 cm DIFFERENTLY and not be blems?th_dunno-1%5B1%5D.gif  OP has one ski with the center mark in one spot and the other ski with the center mark 4 cm different. 

 

I was replaying that they were knowingly not blems. IMHO, I don't think we have all the information here. Can the OP post pics of the sidewalls from an angle that shows both center marks? 

 

I have a question here from the OP... 

 

 

Quote:
When I got the skis back, I noticed that one ski binding was mounted about 4 cm back of recommended, and the other ski was correctly mounted. I told the shop, and they apologized and started discussing options for me (they offered a huge $50 store credit or possibly new skis), but then the shop tech noticed that the recommended mount mark on the ski that was incorrectly mounted was placed incorrectly on the ski

Did the Tech knowingly mount the skis incorrect? If there WERE two different mount points, did it occur to call Blizzard and ask how many CM's from the tail the ski should be mounted BEFORE he pulled out the drill? AGAIN <IF> there were different points, it sounds like the Tech was not doing his job fully. 

post #14 of 47

That sucks.  Be VERY CAREFUL about what the shop tells you!  Contact Blizzard directly.  I had a ski shop in brewster ny order me a pair of blizzard skis through the rep while I was there, and one month later wound up with a fuckin USED pair of demo ski's, and they stilled wanted full price.  In this economy everyone is a vampire.

post #15 of 47
Thread Starter 

The skis were not being sold as blems by skis.com, I purchased them for around $425 during a sale they had over the summer.

 

I think what must have happened in the factory is that the machine that prints the recommended mark on the sidewall somehow printed the mark in the wrong place and it slipped past quality control, and then the tech didn't check the mounting point (just trusted the sidewall mark) and didn't have the skis next to each other when mounting the bindings because it should have been pretty obvious if they were.  Even when just looking at the topsheets, there are star designs right on the mounting point that I would assume you would notice if one binding was on them and the other was placed farther back.

 

I was the first one to notice that the mount was incorrect, I took the skis home before setting them next to each other and immediately noticed something was 

 

I will check the serial numbers of the skis and take a picture of the sidewalls when I pick them up from the ski shop as I haven't gotten around to going and picking them up yet, I will probably do that tomorrow.

post #16 of 47

^^^I actually had a shop tech mess up a pair of new skis like that many years ago.  My folks picked them up and put them under the Christmas tree.  I was so very happy until I stood them against the wall side by side to see one ski mounted midsole and the other one mounted ball of foot.  They were immediately replaced by the shop.  It was a high school classmate if mine (shop owner's son) that screwed it up.  He blamed it on too much chewing tobacco saying he got sick in the middle of doing them..  Anyway, somebody owes you new skis for sure!

post #17 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

^^^I actually had a shop tech mess up a pair of new skis like that many years ago.  My folks picked them up and put them under the Christmas tree.  I was so very happy until I stood them against the wall side by side to see one ski mounted midsole and the other one mounted ball of foot.  They were immediately replaced by the shop.  It was a high school classmate if mine (shop owner's son) that screwed it up.  He blamed it on too much chewing tobacco saying he got sick in the middle of doing them..  Anyway, somebody owes you new skis for sure!

I-502 did just get passed here in Washington, maybe that had something to do with the bad mount.
post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

If skis are factory blems, they should be disclosed as such, but I don't think that is the case here. I know I will measure EVERY ski when mounting and not take it for granted be it a graphic or sidewall indication. 


This.  I'll play Monday morning quarterback here.  The tech should have measured each ski for consistent factory marks.  A true mounting bench has the skis side by side and it is usually easy to spot.  Still, measure, measure, measure.  Mis-mount equals new skis in my book or a large discount on equipment if agreeable to the customer.

post #19 of 47

It sounds like all parties involved are acting in a stand-up manner, so that's good.  I'm curious - check the serial numbers on each ski - do they match?

post #20 of 47

so, it took 2 days and 18 posts to get to the best assessment of the situation. philpug and TimF combined got it right.

 

the best part is that the rest of you took right away to making whoever was responsible pay. how american is that? this is not a warranty issue mainly because there is no such thing as a warranty for stupidity!!!!!!!! the manufacturer has a warranty that covers breakage due to defects in workmanship. and we can assume other types of damage that were not caused from just skiing along, like run over by the UPS forklift, etc.

 

so there is no way that the builder of the ski is responsible for stupidity and inability to follow clearly laid out protocol from the binding manufactures on how to mount a ski. the tech, certified or not, and the certified tech that is required to sign off on the work ticket, and therefore the ski shop, and it's manager and or owner is responsible for making that mount good for the customer. because they were the ones that made it bad for the customer.

 

you guys can whine all you want about how skis are made and how they should have quality control that prevents that type of incident from happening, however protocol for binding mounting from all the suppliers has a clear path of what to do when you measure the skis before mounting and find a discrepancy. but if you do not follow that protocol, it is your (mr ski shop, et all) responsibility.

 

bad ski shop out there....STFU, leave blizzard out of this( they did not hire or train your retarded vegetable), apologize for your stupid, stoned, poorly trained and educated, lame a$$ performance, and buy this customer a pair of skis at similar value that will make correct your poor showing. dont make them wait, do not call the ski manufacture, do not pass go and collect anything resembling money, walk over to your rack and pull a comparable model at a comparable price and at no charge properly mount and now free tune the ski for the customer while they wait.

 

and you retailers out there that have the balls to whine about how the internet is ruining our business? i contend that it is sh%^ty retailers with sh^%ty training that are ruining our business. or maybe it is best if you stick around and don't change to make the well trained retailers look great!!

 

jim

post #21 of 47

And since they're out of Cochise 185's, see if they have any Kastle BMX 108's in a similar length.  They're more expensive but that's not your problem.  Rocker2 108 is another option.

post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

so, it took 2 days and 18 posts to get to the best assessment of the situation. philpug and TimF combined got it right.

the best part is that the rest of you took right away to making whoever was responsible pay. how american is that? this is not a warranty issue mainly because there is no such thing as a warranty for stupidity!!!!!!!! the manufacturer has a warranty that covers breakage due to defects in workmanship. and we can assume other types of damage that were not caused from just skiing along, like run over by the UPS forklift, etc.

so there is no way that the builder of the ski is responsible for stupidity and inability to follow clearly laid out protocol from the binding manufactures on how to mount a ski. the tech, certified or not, and the certified tech that is required to sign off on the work ticket, and therefore the ski shop, and it's manager and or owner is responsible for making that mount good for the customer. because they were the ones that made it bad for the customer.

you guys can whine all you want about how skis are made and how they should have quality control that prevents that type of incident from happening, however protocol for binding mounting from all the suppliers has a clear path of what to do when you measure the skis before mounting and find a discrepancy. but if you do not follow that protocol, it is your (mr ski shop, et all) responsibility.

bad ski shop out there....STFU, leave blizzard out of this( they did not hire or train your retarded vegetable), apologize for your stupid, stoned, poorly trained and educated, lame a$$ performance, and buy this customer a pair of skis at similar value that will make correct your poor showing. dont make them wait, do not call the ski manufacture, do not pass go and collect anything resembling money, walk over to your rack and pull a comparable model at a comparable price and at no charge properly mount and now free tune the ski for the customer while they wait.

and you retailers out there that have the balls to whine about how the internet is ruining our business? i contend that it is sh%^ty retailers with sh^%ty training that are ruining our business. or maybe it is best if you stick around and don't change to make the well trained retailers look great!!

jim

Jim, excellent points! If a retailer can not provide what is effectively a core business service in mounting the bindings correctly then they have no competitive advantage over an Internet supplier.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

so, it took 2 days and 18 posts to get to the best assessment of the situation. philpug and TimF combined got it right.

 

the best part is that the rest of you took right away to making whoever was responsible pay. how american is that? this is not a warranty issue mainly because there is no such thing as a warranty for stupidity!!!!!!!! the manufacturer has a warranty that covers breakage due to defects in workmanship. and we can assume other types of damage that were not caused from just skiing along, like run over by the UPS forklift, etc.

 

so there is no way that the builder of the ski is responsible for stupidity and inability to follow clearly laid out protocol from the binding manufactures on how to mount a ski. the tech, certified or not, and the certified tech that is required to sign off on the work ticket, and therefore the ski shop, and it's manager and or owner is responsible for making that mount good for the customer. because they were the ones that made it bad for the customer.

 

you guys can whine all you want about how skis are made and how they should have quality control that prevents that type of incident from happening, however protocol for binding mounting from all the suppliers has a clear path of what to do when you measure the skis before mounting and find a discrepancy. but if you do not follow that protocol, it is your (mr ski shop, et all) responsibility.

 

bad ski shop out there....STFU, leave blizzard out of this( they did not hire or train your retarded vegetable), apologize for your stupid, stoned, poorly trained and educated, lame a$$ performance, and buy this customer a pair of skis at similar value that will make correct your poor showing. dont make them wait, do not call the ski manufacture, do not pass go and collect anything resembling money, walk over to your rack and pull a comparable model at a comparable price and at no charge properly mount and now free tune the ski for the customer while they wait.

 

and you retailers out there that have the balls to whine about how the internet is ruining our business? i contend that it is sh%^ty retailers with sh^%ty training that are ruining our business. or maybe it is best if you stick around and don't change to make the well trained retailers look great!!

 

jim


I don't think the phrase: "the rest of you..." or "you guys can whine" has any place as a response here. more specific comments would fit better, IMO.

and wow, who's alter ego is this???

Actually all the horrendous things that have happened to my bicycles and skis over the years have been at the hands of someone in a real shop, thus I don't feel obligated to support anything anymore.

I'm  certain that hiring options come up, and the applicant with great experience and skills, and asking a fair, decent wage, is put aside to hire cheap help. When that leads to unexpected cost, good on 'ya, you deserved it and asked for it.

post #24 of 47

davluri,

 

yes i am fired up about this subject because i love this business and absolutely hate what some ski shops look like to the end user. as you well stated in your last post "Actually all the horrendous things that have happened to my bicycles and skis over the years have been at the hands of someone in a real shop, thus I don't feel obligated to support anything anymore." and fwiw, it is all service businesses that make consumers so skeptical about any work that is being done behind the wall that they cannot control like auto shops, etc.

 

for you, after enough times of getting poor service, you have decided to figure out how to get out of the bad service spin zone. for many ski consumers that is not an option.

 

the "you guys" is more of my personal political rant against our industry like our country that is never able to figure out how things really work and tend to blame anyone and everyone other than those truly responsible for the problem in the first place. a little harsh, with a lot of grey area.

 

and if i put one of these things wink.gifon the post does that make my harsh comments ok? and no i am not having a bad day, but thanks for asking.........

 

jim

post #25 of 47

I'm down with "harsh", rightwink.gif? naw, I get it, and fired up is good too. 

 

I build furniture for clients and sometimes they are so jaded and bitter from getting ripped off from everyone that has ALREADY worked on their house that they start off by just about ripping MY head off. There is a karmic chain of events.

post #26 of 47

I would agree that the blame ultimately lies on the idiot that drilled the skis differently.  However, if the lines in the (matched or mismatched) pair of skis are really 4 cm different then there is a problem somewhere in the Blizzard line of quality control.  If a vehicle transmission indicator has D and R mislabled, it is still on the driver to avoid running over a pedestrian.. however improperly labeling items is really asking for trouble anyway.

 

Still curious if the skis are even a matched pair..

 

worthless.gif

post #27 of 47

Here's what I don't get - after the skis were mounted and the tech put them together so the brakes overlapped, wouldn't that have been pretty noticeable?  Especially considering these skis have no camber.  4cms difference is a lot.

post #28 of 47
Thread Starter 
So the general consensus is that I should go into the shop, take pictures of the sidewalls to show the improperly placed mount line, check if the serial numbers of the skis match, and then get new skis from the shop opposed to dealing with Blizzard or skis.com?

I'd really like to end up with a new pair of the 2013 Cochise, but it seems like Atomic and Armada are the main ski brands that the shop carries, should I try and get a 185 JJ? Or a 185 Blog? Both those skis seem like they are pretty different from the Cochise. Should I just request a new 2013 Cochise and make them go over to a different ski shop and buy a pair for me?

So if I decided to go with store credit instead and just keep the skis, would something like $500 be fair? I would probably just try and get my money back that I spent on buying boots+bindings at the shop. They offered $50 store credit, which I see as pretty lame in comparison to new skis.

Just trying to figure everything out as I was planning on going back to the ski shop today to pick up the skis and resolve this finally.

JayT- it was pretty noticeable with the brakes overlapping, however this was only true when you put the skis together one way, the other way the skis actually slid together quite nicely with the tips at the same height(but the brakes weren't fully overlapping), and of course that was the way that the skis were in the shop, leading to me not noticing until later.
post #29 of 47

jayT,

 

exactly my point. this shops business is so messed up, that they actually mounted these skis and handed them to the customer????????

 

it is the ski shops responsibility from the moment the skis are dropped off for service until the completed work is delivered to get all the steps correct.

including the communication to the customer when A. you discover that the mid-sole marks do not match, or B. after you chum the deal and discover that you or your tech mis-mounted them.

 

acting quickly and responsibly as a retailer wins you loyal customers instead of making this service business look as corrupt as the 15 minute oil change business.

 

all shops make mistakes, but it is how you handle the mistakes that make a difference.

 

jim

post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke2320 View Post

So the general consensus is that I should go into the shop, take pictures of the sidewalls to show the improperly placed mount line, check if the serial numbers of the skis match, and then get new skis from the shop opposed to dealing with Blizzard or skis.com?
I'd really like to end up with a new pair of the 2013 Cochise, but it seems like Atomic and Armada are the main ski brands that the shop carries, should I try and get a 185 JJ? Or a 185 Blog? Both those skis seem like they are pretty different from the Cochise. Should I just request a new 2013 Cochise and make them go over to a different ski shop and buy a pair for me?
So if I decided to go with store credit instead and just keep the skis, would something like $500 be fair? I would probably just try and get my money back that I spent on buying boots+bindings at the shop. They offered $50 store credit, which I see as pretty lame in comparison to new skis.
Just trying to figure everything out as I was planning on going back to the ski shop today to pick up the skis and resolve this finally.
JayT- it was pretty noticeable with the brakes overlapping, however this was only true when you put the skis together one way, the other way the skis actually slid together quite nicely with the tips at the same height(but the brakes weren't fully overlapping), and of course that was the way that the skis were in the shop, leading to me not noticing until later.

So, you paid $425 for the skis and you want $500.00 in store credit AND keep the skis? Seriously?  A miss drilled ski is not the end of the world, warranty is not voided. They should comp you for the mount and $50-100 is MORE than fair.

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