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Pre-season ski training workout in Outside Magazine

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

This workout was posted to Outside Magazine's facebook page this week, and it irritated me so much, I felt a need to review it. Figured I'd share both with you guys and gals.

 

Here's the Outside Mag workout: http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/strength-and-power-training/Slump-Killer.html (note, this was actually published last year, but I only saw it this year when the posted it on FB).

 

Here's my review with a discussion of each exercise: http://elsbethvaino.com/2012/11/new-magazine-workout-should-you-try-it/

 

Dare I initiate the discussion, knowing there are a lot of crossfitters on here? :)

 

Elsbeth

post #2 of 26

I agree with you on this one.  Over the past several years some of my friends who do not regularly work out at a gym  have joined me for a session or two.  Despite my suggestion to do things at a lower weight, they start at or near to the level that I'm doing, not understanding that I have worked up to that level over time.  On top of this, their technique often sucks.  This has resulted in hurt backs and strained muscles, as well as no desire to get back into the gym.

 

It's hard to learn to do advanced gym techniques without instruction and/or a building process, but many people who have not had instruction do not realize this.  It also takes time (at least for me) to build up sufficient kinesthetic awareness to know what you are actually doing during an exercise.  For example, the kettle ball video showed specific positioning of the back - but many people are not aware of this nor are they aware of the position of their back.  Some "correct" positions actually make the exercise seem harder because the correct position isolates specific muscle groups.  As a result, I see people do some exercises with poor form presumably because the exercise is easier to do that way.

post #3 of 26

Your review is good.  For some of the exercises, I'd also add that they have roughly zero relationship to skiing.  Handstand pushups?  Good for Jackie Chan, but there are lots of people on the WC who I am sure can't do them, and don't need to do them.  I would probably up the demerit rating for that one, because aside from injury risk, time spent learning stupid pet tricks is time taken away from either 1) developing a bigger motor of the kind needed for you sport (say, spinning on a bike, or doing deadlifts and squatting though those are less needed for skiing than most think, or 2) doing exercises with some direct carryover benefit to your sport (say, MTB or trail running or inline skating for skiing). 

 

The trendiness rating of the article is a solid 5 stars, though, and so in magazine terms it probably was good for that reason.

post #4 of 26

I like cross-fit as a concept, but I totally agree with you. Too many ppl doing complex exercises with heavy weight and piss poor form, and the worst part is that instructors often don't correct them. (Unless you go to a serious place with real S&C professionals)
 

The way the article is written could work for a developed athlete, but at that level there are better ways to train, more specific ones.

For a beginner this is just dangerous.

post #5 of 26

Fine I'll bite.

The work out as it relates to skiing,whatever ,any work out in my Op in good/better than not working out.

As far as a mag.article covering a "CrossFit" I wish they wouldn't.  Now untrained peolpe will try to do things that there not able to do,hurt themselves ,then blaim CrossFit.

This is no different than your typical gym where guys are doing stupid things that are way to heavy with awful form.But there is no outrage there.No one says "the gym is dangerous". 

Anyhow,the work outs in CrossFit are written for the top and everyone else is supposed to scale as needed.

Can't do HSPU?no problem,put your knees on a box and try it from there.Still can't ,do push ups.

Everything is scalable or we will find an alternitive.

No matter the sport/exercise/activity/workout,trying to do to much with out taking the time to learn proper technique is gonna get you hurt.

 

Also that Workout did not look all that hard,For a trained CrossFitter looks to be about 5-6 min

Another problem is you will have people seeing this article and think they have to do this 3x a week.


Edited by loboskis - 11/8/12 at 4:20am
post #6 of 26

Also,It's more about the irresponsibility of the author/Magazine.

It's not a question of the movements ,it's how it's presented.

We teach people how to move.They lean proper technique..When they are consistent in that technique, then, and only then we start upping the intensity.

When your child is learning to ride a bike you don't take him MTB on the side of a Mountain.

post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post

Also,It's more about the irresponsibility of the author/Magazine.

It's not a question of the movements ,it's how it's presented.

We teach people how to move.They lean proper technique..When they are consistent in that technique, then, and only then we start upping the intensity.

When your child is learning to ride a bike you don't take him MTB on the side of a Mountain.

 

I mostly agree. The biggest problem is definitely that this is wildly inappropriate for a beginner. And in fact I think the magazine is negligent in presenting it how it did. 

 

But some of the movements are just inappropriate period. Like Crossfit's version of KB swings. They are dangerous. There's no good reason to go overhead with a KB swing. 

 

Elsbeth

post #8 of 26

There are 2 versions of KBS.The Russian swing & the American swing.

I know the hard style RKC folk think the russian is the only way to go,but the american swing (done properly ) is fine.

Start doing stupid things with your head/neck/ spine ,yes that will screw you up. But isn't that true of all movement?

Also I start most people off with the russian swing and let them progress into the american as they can.

There are times when we go heavy (with experienced athletes) where the russian would be the safest way to go

post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post

There are 2 versions of KBS.The Russian swing & the American swing.

I know the hard style RKC folk think the russian is the only way to go,but the american swing (done properly ) is fine.

Start doing stupid things with your head/neck/ spine ,yes that will screw you up. But isn't that true of all movement?

Also I start most people off with the russian swing and let them progress into the american as they can.

There are times when we go heavy (with experienced athletes) where the russian would be the safest way to go

 

The American swing requires that the arms pass the ears. There is no situation under which this is fine. 

 

What do you think is the benefit of moving from the Russian swing to the American? I can't think of a single one. Meanwhile it is a dangerous movement for the shoulders, the neck, and the back.

 

Elsbeth

post #10 of 26

pull ups,pressing ,over head squat, snatch,lots of things on rings all require the arms to be in that postion,no?

KB snatch?

post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post

pull ups,pressing ,over head squat, snatch,lots of things on rings all require the arms to be in that postion,no?

KB snatch?

Actually no. At no time in a pull up are your arms behind your head. Unless you're doing a kipping pull up, which is another exercise that nobody should ever do. 

Snatch is a completely different position. With the shoulders abducted and the catch done with the hips flexed, the biomechanics are very different from a kb swing.

Overhead squat is not a ballistic movement, and is positioned like the snatch. 

Rings are a closed chain exercise - also very different from a loaded and ballistic open chain exercise. And for the most part, ring work will not involve arms going behind the head. 

 

But you didn't answer my question: what is the benefit of kb swings overhead vs stopping at shoulder height? I think you'll find there isn't one. But there is a big downside as noted above. Very poor exercise variation. 

 

Elsbeth

post #12 of 26
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 

 

Well I'm happy that you do have a reason for doing the crossfit swing. Although I am more in agreement with the commenters on that article than the article itself. Ballistic movement as a means to develop extra flexibility remains a dangerous tactic in my opinion, and using a dangerous tool for the sake of "getting more work" is folly.  In my opinion of course. 

post #14 of 26

beercheer.gif

post #15 of 26
Evaino, please post a link to your ebook on ski training.

I would like to buy it.
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post

beercheer.gif

 

cool. :)

 

And just want to clarify - my " I'm happy that you do have a reason for doing the crossfit swing." was sincere - not sarcasm (In case it sounded like sarcasm). There's much I don't agree with about the way other people exercise, but as long as you understand why you're doing something, then I respect the choice.  

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugBootBlues View Post

Evaino, please post a link to your ebook on ski training.
I would like to buy it.

 

Happy to! Here you go: http://www.customstrength.com/skiprogram.html. Feel free to shoot me an email or PM if you have any questions.

 

I'm following it for my own pre-season training this year. Doing it has definitely reminded me that I had fallen into the trap of avoiding stuff that I suck at. I'm now love-hating the stuff that kicks my butt. 

post #18 of 26
Sooooo. . . Sitting in your boots, drinking a beer isn't off season training????
post #19 of 26

Thanks for the link. In spite of the fact that I like CrossFit-style workouts, I also raised my eyebrows when I saw the Outside article, and I've been really interested to read through both your initial explanation and the dialogue that followed. Picking up a copy of the eBook now!

post #20 of 26
Elsbeth: I love your posts & this is one of the finest.

What the article will ultimately do is drive clients toward ligitamite references.

Even CF Boxes have coaches for a reason.
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaosSteeps View Post

Sooooo. . . Sitting in your boots, drinking a beer isn't off season training????

 

It has it's place - call it off-season training for apres-ski. :) 

post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

Elsbeth: I love your posts & this is one of the finest.
What the article will ultimately do is drive clients toward ligitamite references.
Even CF Boxes have coaches for a reason.

 

Thanks! I hope you're right. But I do fear it's going to send too many people to their local physical therapy office. Crap like that article is probably good for your business, although I'm sure you don't want to get business that way!

post #23 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcxd View Post

Thanks for the link. In spite of the fact that I like CrossFit-style workouts, I also raised my eyebrows when I saw the Outside article, and I've been really interested to read through both your initial explanation and the dialogue that followed. Picking up a copy of the eBook now!

 

I hope you enjoy it. If you're used to crossift, it'll definitely feel different! It won't be as intense, although depending on how well you move, or if you have issues, there will be aspects that are tough. It should also highlight (and hopefully correct) any movement issues and asymmetries that you have. Each phase builds on the previous one, so as you get more fit and move better, the workouts get harder. As noted above - feel free to email or PM me if you have questions. 

 

Elsbeth

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post

 

Thanks! I hope you're right. But I do fear it's going to send too many people to their local physical therapy office. Crap like that article is probably good for your business, although I'm sure you don't want to get business that way!

 

 

You are quite correct.  However, I find that a client with a poor exercise experience history is really a hard one the correct.  Far too many abnormal illness beliefs set in & then it is all uphill.

 

Folks quit on exercising when they fail to see results they want ; results don't come when you're doing the wrong exercises or poor quality.

post #25 of 26
OK OK OK. . . . . I'll put the beer down and get back to my plyos:mad.
post #26 of 26

Thanks for the link and thoughts.  While I don't do crossfit, I've been thinking about it as I think my muscle balance is all out of wack.  I play basketball and soccer regularly, and hit the weights for basic stuff, but it would be good to have some higher intensity, complete body workouts that help to make sure all the muscles are strong, balanced and working together. 

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