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Avy Beacons and a GoPro

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

Quite disturbing if you ride with people with a GoPro or carry one yourself.

 

 

post #2 of 25

I am not seeing your video, but it sounds like any electronic device, including I Phones have the potential to interfere

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/236494-Paging-Jonathan-Go-Pro-camera-interfering-with-beacon-search

post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
I would expect an iPhone because the radios on the device, but a video camera?? I skied with people in the back country with my gopro chesty, so did others. Now I find out that it could have interfered my with beacon....that's pretty bad for me and my friends cause now no one is going out with one.
post #4 of 25

Go Pro's and I pods aren't really a problem in my group, no one has them.  We always turn cell phones off during the beacon check. 

Some of us use radios and I don't see us giving them up?

post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

Go Pro's and I pods aren't really a problem in my group, no one has them.  We always turn cell phones off during the beacon check. 

Some of us use radios and I don't see us giving them up?

I did not know that an iPod causes interference.  Usually when I'm skiing at a resort i have my ipod then when i go out of bounds I'm not listening to it, but i still have it on me.  I feel like this is something i should have known a while ago lol

post #6 of 25

Interesting. Read through the thread and with my limited knowledge of electromagnetism it does make some sense. It never occurred to me that a beacon would have such a weak/susceptible signal. Cell phone interference makes total sense as it's a relatively powerful transmission but I would have assumed the signal would not be so precarious that the running of a video camera would interfere

post #7 of 25

I have no idea on the interference thing.  I do run a different Helmet cam, a Drift.  Think I'll have to play with it and see if there is interference.

 

From what I have heard, you do not want to store you electronic devices near where your beacon is.  10" apart at least.  Maybe it's just not a good idea at all.  I am going to have to ask around what the latest and greatest advice is. 

post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

Go Pro's and I pods aren't really a problem in my group, no one has them.  We always turn cell phones off during the beacon check. 

Some of us use radios and I don't see us giving them up?

Do you keep them off while you are skiing?

 

On an unrelated note, I have noticed that a lot of your posts lately have had sentences ending with ? even when you are making a statement or giving advice.  Is that just a typo or are you trying to convey some uncertainty in what you are saying?

post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post

Do you keep them off while you are skiing?

 

On an unrelated note, I have noticed that a lot of your posts lately have had sentences ending with ? even when you are making a statement or giving advice.  Is that just a typo or are you trying to convey some uncertainty in what you are saying?

 

Yes, we leave them on.   Sometimes we lose sight of each other or the first skier will have important information to impart." I heard it wumping or it felt a little unstable, don't ski the gut!"

I remember the first time I went heli skiing in AK.  The guides asked it anyone wanted to carry one and everybody but me declined.  That changed quickly after they all saw me getting the best lines, because the guide could communicate with me from the bottom and tell me where to go!

 

I'm not trying to convey uncertainty, as much as I think others could have different opinions. This is what I do, you may do it differently, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

In this case, I think the slight risk of interference is vastly outweighed by the benefit of clear, concise communication,  that hopefully keeps me from needing the beacon in the first place.

post #10 of 25

Do you think a walkie talky would have the same effect? Wouldn't communication devices then handicap rescue efforts?

post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

Do you think a walkie talky would have the same effect? Wouldn't communication devices then handicap rescue efforts?


I'm sure distance plays a role how an electronic device would effect a beacon. You would probably need to have it right on top of the beacon to effect it, same with a gopro, ipod, cellphone...etc.

post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

Do you think a walkie talky would have the same effect? Wouldn't communication devices then handicap rescue efforts?


I'm sure distance plays a role how an electronic device would effect a beacon. You would probably need to have it right on top of the beacon to effect it, same with a gopro, ipod, cellphone...etc.

Actually I got my answer. This subject intrigued me so I did some research this afternoon and wrote an article about it. It still needs some formatting to look pretty, but it's view-able here.

post #13 of 25
I'd be more interested in some testing of a beacon in transmit mode within a foot of a recording gopro.

You might have some confusion in the fog of a search about remembering to stop your cam.... but if you're a meter under and the cam wasn't ripped off you're sol re turning it off.

And that seems like the most likely scenario.... cam running to capture a sick line and getting caught. Less likely your buddies who are watching from a secure place are gonna have gopros running while they sit and watch.

In other words... what happens when the rescuee has a cam running?
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thought i changed the video.

 

post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by justruss View Post

[...]
In other words... what happens when the rescuee has a cam running?

 

No effect upon transmit from any consumer electronic devices.
post #16 of 25

Interesting.  Did you bring in a single from a transmitting beacon to see how much it interfered when doing the search?  Looks like more to come on this.
 

post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by killclimbz View Post

Interesting.  Did you bring in a single from a transmitting beacon to see how much it interfered when doing the search?  Looks like more to come on this.
 

Check out this article I wrote with information on it. 

post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by killclimbz View Post

Interesting.  Did you bring in a single from a transmitting beacon to see how much it interfered when doing the search?  Looks like more to come on this.
 

 

I've conducted . . . many tests.

You can read about some of them here:

http://www.wildsnow.com/1609/jonathans-wildsnow-beacon-test-notes/

... although I'm now collaborating with BeaconReviews.com, so whatever is posted under my name at WildSnow.com might be outdated by now.

I don't see what you mean by "Looks like more to come on this."  I've run all sorts of combinations of beacon models and consumer electronic items.  The results vary enormously, even by beacon firmware.  It all comes down to the proximity though.  However, some items can have serious effects even at what would be considered normal proximity, so those are the scary items.

The good news is that testing your own beacon with your own electronic items is really easy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

Check out this article I wrote with information on it. 

 

I think you'd be doing everyone a much better service just by pointing to the original BeaconReviews.com url and adding a few introductory sentences.

For example, you mention magnets, but leave out the important part that magnets can temporarily switch the modes of two particular beacon models (which appear to have mechanical switches but are actually magnetic).

Also, you write, "The beacon is even more sensitive to interference when searching." but in fact the interference is *only* for searching.

post #19 of 25

Jonathan, no offense intended to your research.  There is more to come on this though, thanks for opening up the door.  I've got a few electronic gadgets I use that I need test how they affect my beacon.  I'm sure this has popped some of the manufacturer's eyes, curious as to what their response is going to be.
 

post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Shefftz View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

Check out this article I wrote with information on it. 

 

I think you'd be doing everyone a much better service just by pointing to the original BeaconReviews.com url and adding a few introductory sentences.

For example, you mention magnets, but leave out the important part that magnets can temporarily switch the modes of two particular beacon models (which appear to have mechanical switches but are actually magnetic).

Also, you write, "The beacon is even more sensitive to interference when searching." but in fact the interference is *only* for searching.

 

I do appreciate the feedback. I am by no means an expert on the subject of avalanche beacons, so I appreciate someone with more knowledge of the subject looking over the article.

 

I did link to the Beacon Review article in the article. However not mentioning the magnets with specific models was an editorial point rather than a factual one. The article was meant to be about the general effect, I figured I would leave the specific model type thing to a beacon specific site like you have. However I do see value in making mention of that potential danger and have updated the article with mention of it:

 

Quote:
In fact some beacons can have their modes inadvertently switched by the magnets in a jacket (for more information about this and specific models affected please see the link to BeaconReviews.com).  

 

 

 

As for the last statement about it being more sensitive in search mode, that is drawn from what the Beacon Reviews article says in bullet point one:

 

Quote:
The electronic devices affect the searching beacon more than the transmitting beacon.

 

It also uses the term "more" not only. If this is indeed incorrect on Beacon Reviews please let me know so I can fix it in the article here. Thanks again for the feedback!

post #21 of 25

Hmm, somehow that didn't get noticed during this season's round of updates.

The revised version should be more clear now:

http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Interference.asp

post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

 

It also uses the term "more" not only. If this is indeed incorrect on Beacon Reviews please let me know so I can fix it in the article here. Thanks again for the feedback!

I would assume more would be correct . This is because your electronic device is essentially acting as a jammer. During transmit the signal produced by the beacon next to it is going to be a stronger signal which can "overpower" the interference. While searching the faint signal being received by your beacon is being "overpowered" by the interference from the electronic device. So it's not so much that the electronic device does more to teh beacon its self but rather the difference in the signals. 

post #23 of 25

Just saw this article published today. Apparently electronics do not interfere with transmitting but have an effect on receiving within 17 inches.

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/blogs/How-Electronics-Interfere-With-Avalanche-Transceivers-6497429.htm

post #24 of 25

This may be the video you were originally trying to post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWIuX014DSk

 

There has also been research that battery operated insulin pumps will also effect beacons in search mode.  Food for thought...
 

post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmaven View Post

This may be the video you were originally trying to post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWIuX014DSk

 

There has also been research that battery operated insulin pumps will also effect beacons in search mode.  Food for thought...
 

No I wasn't trying to post the video. That is an article that recaps research presented at the International Snow Science Workshop in Alaska. The video is what prompted the research and is way it's included in the article but the research went beyond just go pros and tested everything form cell phones to rfid tickets (like they use at Vail resorts.)

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