New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Tread Wear on Snow Tires - Page 4

post #91 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

Not sure how some of you guys get that sort of mileage out of snow tires. I typically put them on mid November and take them off late April. After 7-8000miles over the winter I find blizzaks are typically half worn on the q7. I have seen the same results with dmv1, dmz3 and LM 25s. YMMV

 

Blizzaks have a notoriously short effective life and turn into all-seasons after one winter of good use, that's why I've never used them.  I get 3-4 seasons from my Michelins (deeper siping and winter compound depth) and the tread life is warranted for 60,000 km.  Of course a lot of it comes down to the climate where you're driving.  If you live somewhere where the temp is at the freezing point or below for the entire season, then the tread will last approximately as long as a summer tire because the soft compound will harden to it's optimum firmness in cold temps.  If you live somewhere where it's above freezing during the winter and you only get into cold temps during occasional forays into the mountains or brief cold snaps, then your tread life will be drastically shorter because the soft compound won't firm up.

post #92 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISfromRI View Post


If you we're able to read comprehensively then you would know that I have no trouble on my driveways, it's friends and guests that do, and I have a pretty good feel that you'll never be one.

 

Don't worry, I wasn't looking to make friends with you.  I was trying to educate you, but I see that's not going to happen.  I think I'll just sit back and enjoy your posts from here on out.

post #93 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer View Post

Blizzaks have a notoriously short effective life and turn into all-seasons after one winter of good use, that's why I've never used them.  I get 3-4 seasons from my Michelins (deeper siping and winter compound depth) and the tread life is warranted for 60,000 km.  Of course a lot of it comes down to the climate where you're driving.  If you live somewhere where the temp is at the freezing point or below for the entire season, then the tread will last approximately as long as a summer tire because the soft compound will harden to it's optimum firmness in cold temps.  If you live somewhere where it's above freezing during the winter and you only get into cold temps during occasional forays into the mountains or brief cold snaps, then your tread life will be drastically shorter because the soft compound won't firm up.

Yeah, in Tahoe here it (rarely!) gets really cold even though I am at 6500'. That won't help. I definitely need to take a look at these Michelin X ice though. If they will warranty them for 40k miles I could make out like a bandit! Price wise the 18 inch version for my truck looks pretty competitive. (OTOH the last couple of sets of blizzaks have come from CL with less than 1000 miles on them so hard to beat...smile.gif ). Will definitely give them a look. How are they on dry pavement?

I do have really good memories of Michelin from my rallying days. The Michelin Nora was not only a great loose surface tire back in the 80s, , it also worked really well in snow unlike most of the other gravel tires which were like studded boots on marble in snow and ice.
post #94 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer View Post

Blizzaks have a notoriously short effective life and turn into all-seasons after one winter of good use, that's why I've never used them.  I get 3-4 seasons from my Michelins (deeper siping and winter compound depth) and the tread life is warranted for 60,000 km.  Of course a lot of it comes down to the climate where you're driving.  If you live somewhere where the temp is at the freezing point or below for the entire season, then the tread will last approximately as long as a summer tire because the soft compound will harden to it's optimum firmness in cold temps.  If you live somewhere where it's above freezing during the winter and you only get into cold temps during occasional forays into the mountains or brief cold snaps, then your tread life will be drastically shorter because the soft compound won't firm up.

I had heard that the reason that Blizzaks have good grip is the microscopic air bubbles they inject into the rubber compound, so that as the rubber wears the edges and concave surfaces of the bubbles are exposed and provide good grip. This would also be the reason that they only work well over a shorter than normal life - since they would wear down quickly. I found they worked pretty well when I had them, and they were also quite inexpensive. I noticed they lasted around 1/4 the life of Nokian Hakkas, at around 1/2 the price - and concluded the Nokians were the better value for similar performance.
post #95 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISfromRI View Post


I had heard that the reason that Blizzaks have good grip is the microscopic air bubbles they inject into the rubber compound, so that as the rubber wears the edges and concave surfaces of the bubbles are exposed and provide good grip. This would also be the reason that they only work well over a shorter than normal life - since they would wear down quickly. I found they worked pretty well when I had them, and they were also quite inexpensive. I noticed they lasted around 1/4 the life of Nokian Hakkas, at around 1/2 the price - and concluded the Nokians were the better value for similar performance.

 

The sticky compound isn't full depth, as I understand it, so you wear through the 'sticky' rubber pretty quickly.  Also, the sipes aren't very deep, so after a good season or two there isn't much siping left.  Once that's gone, they're no better than all-seasons.

post #96 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISfromRI View Post


I had heard that the reason that Blizzaks have good grip is the microscopic air bubbles they inject into the rubber compound, so that as the rubber wears the edges and concave surfaces of the bubbles are exposed and provide good grip. This would also be the reason that they only work well over a shorter than normal life - since they would wear down quickly. I found they worked pretty well when I had them, and they were also quite inexpensive. I noticed they lasted around 1/4 the life of Nokian Hakkas, at around 1/2 the price - and concluded the Nokians were the better value for similar performance.

 


The X-Ice is amazing on dry pavement.  They are extremely quiet for a winter tire (quieter than my summer Bridgestones) with just enough compliance to be comfortable when driving over rough icy patches but not so soft that they feel overly squishy when cornering or squirrely at speed.  I'm on my second set now and have been extremely pleased with the performance and tread life (I have them in 45 series profile).  I started with the X-Ice and moved on to the X-Ice Xi2 after the first set wore out.  They have just introduced the X-Ice Xi3 this year (TireRack.com has blow-out pricing on their remaining Xi2 stock at the moment and I got a set for my wife's car for $575 versus $1,200 from my local dealer).

 

I've tried a lot of tires over the years, but I keep coming back to Michelin.  You just can't go wrong with them.  My summer Bridgestones are the OEM tires that came on my 5-Series BMW, and I can't wait to wear them out so I can put a set of Michelins on.

post #97 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer View Post

The sticky compound isn't full depth, as I understand it, so you wear through the 'sticky' rubber pretty quickly.  Also, the sipes aren't very deep, so after a good season or two there isn't much siping left.  Once that's gone, they're no better than all-seasons.

That double compound concept is exactly how Bridgestone gets a good tread life spec on some of their Potenza high performance tires. A bunch of us used Potenza S02 and S03 in some sports car race series for Intermediate and Rain tires and found that their cornering rain performance went away pretty fast, though the dry performance stayed OK - but nowhere near soft treadless slick tires like Hoosiers (1G versus 2G). It wouldn't surprise me to see that double compound done with the Blizzaks, but I did hear about that microscopic air bubble concept from my tire dealer. I didn't notice the siping depth but that's a good point too. Possibly deeper siping would result in unacceptable siping fractures due to the air bubbles?
post #98 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer View Post



The X-Ice is amazing on dry pavement.  They are extremely quiet for a winter tire (quieter than my summer Bridgestones) with just enough compliance to be comfortable when driving over rough icy patches but not so soft that they feel overly squishy when cornering or squirrely at speed.  I'm on my second set now and have been extremely pleased with the performance and tread life (I have them in 45 series profile).  I started with the X-Ice and moved on to the X-Ice Xi2 after the first set wore out.  They have just introduced the X-Ice Xi3 this year (TireRack.com has blow-out pricing on their remaining Xi2 stock at the moment and I got a set for my wife's car for $575 versus $1,200 from my local dealer).

I've tried a lot of tires over the years, but I keep coming back to Michelin.  You just can't go wrong with them.  My summer Bridgestones are the OEM tires that came on my 5-Series BMW, and I can't wait to wear them out so I can put a set of Michelins on.

I haven't had Michelins for a number of years since my impression was that they used a pretty hard rubber compound to get long life and good mileage, but it sounds like they have some grippy street tires now. I drove a couple track cars with Michelin slicks and they were quick, so they certainly know that soft gets you grip.I will have to reconsider them for street tires.
post #99 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISfromRI View Post


I haven't had Michelins for a number of years since my impression was that they used a pretty hard rubber compound to get long life and good mileage, but it sounds like they have some grippy street tires now. I drove a couple track cars with Michelin slicks and they were quick, so they certainly know that soft gets you grip.I will have to reconsider them for street tires.

 

The 'max-performance summer' Bridgestones that came on my BMW are the run-flat version of the tire that's used on the Enzo Ferrari (from what I've read), a Potenza RE050A in a 245/40R18 size in my case.  I find them a bit harsh and noisy (my X-Ice winters are quieter), and I will be swapping them for Michelins when the time comes (either a Pilot Super Sport or a Pilot Sport PS2).  My experience with Michelins in the past is that they tend to be quieter and less harsh, but don't sacrifice any performance compared to Bridgestones.  They also last considerably longer than any Bridgestones I've used in the past (switching from Potenzas to Michelins on my Volvo made a world of difference to its handling and comfort, but that's just my experience for what it's worth).

 

For what it's worth, it's interesting to look at the Tire Rack ratings for max-performance summer tires and see what they say about the Potenzas you and I have both used in the past (#20 & 21 in the ratings).  In comparison the Michelin Pilot Super Sport and Pilot Sport PS2 are #1 & 3 in the performance ratings.

 

Apologies for taking the thread off course into the realm of summer tires.


Edited by exracer - 11/16/12 at 11:47pm
post #100 of 102
A question, if I use almost worn Winter tires after their third season as summer tires:

Summer tires come off this weekend, Winters go on, stay on through the next summer, new winters purchased in fall of 2013. These summers finally going back on spring of 2014.

Those summers will have 1 1/2 years of sitting in my barn with about 30K miles on them.

---> Is that bad for tires to sit so long?
post #101 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

A question, if I use almost worn Winter tires after their third season as summer tires:
Summer tires come off this weekend, Winters go on, stay on through the next summer, new winters purchased in fall of 2013. These summers finally going back on spring of 2014.
Those summers will have 1 1/2 years of sitting in my barn with about 30K miles on them.
---> Is that bad for tires to sit so long?

 

Not if in a cool, dry location with limited sunlight.

 

BUT suffering through an off season on spent winter tires is no way to go though life...unless you don't actually enjoy drivng anyway.

post #102 of 102
They're Michelin x-ice 2 should have about 29K on them I would think they'd be fine for summer use. I'll see.

I drive a lot, 110 mile round trip to work. I drive 7 miles over the speed limit and although I don't mind the drive at all, I don't do it for fun. Good gas mileage and safe commute is my goal. Just an Outback after all!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Automotive/Car Talk