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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Racing and Big Mountain Competitions › Völkl Racetiger World Cup GS 188 R>30.0m - Is this the womens official 2013 GS ski?
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Völkl Racetiger World Cup GS 188 R>30.0m - Is this the womens official 2013 GS ski?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Hi

 

Got my new Racetigers the other day but not sure if they are exaclty the same as the ones I tested last year. These look awful narrow and straight. On the skin is printed Radius bigger or equal to 30.0m. There were two lengths to choose from, 188 and 187. Anybody know whats the difference between the two?

 

Tip: 95mm

Waist: 65mm

Tail: 83mm

 

The FIS radius calculator gives a radius of 26,7m. Physicsman's calculator 30,7m which sounds about right because this ski is very very straight. Is this the official womens 2013 FIS GS ski?

post #2 of 23

It sure sounds like it based on the >30m marking TDK. 188/30m is the womens WC/FIS spec.  Not sure I know what the 187 is for though.  However I have heard of Fischer producing a 190/35m ski as a progression ski for juniors before they move to the 195/35m 

post #3 of 23

could the 187cm be the "masters" ski? th_dunno-1[1].gif
 

best bet is probably to contact volk and ask them...

post #4 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys. Yes, I will call the reps tomorrow. Just thaught I ask here tonight. Anyway, good to hear that the specs for women 2013 is 188/30. That makes it obvious I have the wrong ski. The 187 must be with last years specifications. They just made it 1cm shorter this year to make a distinciton between the 2013 official womens ski and one made to last years mens specs. I wonder if I should take it back and or not?

post #5 of 23

If the 187 is labeled >30m it is not last years mens ski (>27) and at taht radius unlikely to be a Masters ski.  I have seen a Fischer "Masters" ski in 188 and it was marked >25m.  IIRC the Rossi Masters ski is also something like 23/24m

post #6 of 23

Volkl made the 2013 racetiger in a 187/27 (non-WC/EC men's; i have this ski) as well as a 188/30 (WC/EC Women's)

 

Not sure they made a 187/30 (or, would stamp it as >= 30), since it's only 1 cm shorter than the WC/EC regs. I'm sure you will see a larger than normal production of 190/35 and ~183/30 next year to help juniors with the progression, since there is a 5cm tolerance for lower-level FIS races, but i doubt they would make a 187/30
 

post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins14sammy View Post

Volkl made the 2013 racetiger in a 187/27 (non-WC/EC men's; i have this ski) as well as a 188/30 (WC/EC Women's)

 

Not sure they made a 187/30 (or, would stamp it as >= 30), since it's only 1 cm shorter than the WC/EC regs. I'm sure you will see a larger than normal production of 190/35 and ~183/30 next year to help juniors with the progression, since there is a 5cm tolerance for lower-level FIS races, but i doubt they would make a 187/30
 

That's what I was thinking since Blizzard did the same thing for 2013, with both FIS WC specs and 27m radius.

post #8 of 23

True of pretty much all manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

That's what I was thinking since Blizzard did the same thing for 2013, with both FIS WC specs and 27m radius.

post #9 of 23

Let´s expect a fairly wide offer because of the 5cm tolerance for the FIS level next year, eg. 190 and 183 cm. You may, I suppose, even find some atypical measurements of the last season developed for the athletes to get used to future skis. As an example, Rossignol had some women on 189/29 last season. Thus your 187/30 may be some experiment using old length but new dimensions. Or some future womens FIS ski?

 

Fischer has both 190 and 195/35 (A02012) stiff and A02112 medium skis as well as 183 and 188/30 (A03012) stiff and A03112 medium skis in the regular race catalog. Nice of them.

Also “old” 186 + 190/27 and 183/23 for the FIS level and A03412 stiff 183 + 188/23 “Masters” as well as A03512 medium.

Atomic has neither 190/35 nor 183/30 in the cat.

 

The problem I had was whether to order the new skis (Atomic – liked them in May) as early as now or to wait till the development will be more settled. There´s some pro and contra and I couldn´t make my mind because us low in the pecking order never know what they send us unless we get the exact pair we tested. Which is not so easy right now. Therefore my strategy is to wait and see. Wish you a good choice.

post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins14sammy View Post

Volkl made the 2013 racetiger in a 187/27 (non-WC/EC men's; i have this ski) as well as a 188/30 (WC/EC Women's)

 

Not sure they made a 187/30 (or, would stamp it as >= 30), since it's only 1 cm shorter than the WC/EC regs. I'm sure you will see a larger than normal production of 190/35 and ~183/30 next year to help juniors with the progression, since there is a 5cm tolerance for lower-level FIS races, but i doubt they would make a 187/30
 

 

Thanks for the info bruins14sammy. Would you be so kind and post the tip/waist/tail measurements of your 187/27 ski! Here are the measurements for my 188's:

 

Length: 188cm

Tip: 95mm

Waist: 65mm

Tail: 83mm

Radius: >= 30.0m

 

I wonder if there would be any advantage of keeping these skis insted of going back to r=27?

post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins14sammy View Post

.....but i doubt they would make a 187/30
 

 

sorry, I was maybe unclear, my new skis are 188/30 but this summer when I ordered nobody could tell me what the radius of the 187 was. All of a sudden there were two lengths. The skis I tested last spring were stamped 188/27 but I guess they changed that over the summer not to mix it with the womens FIS ski. I suspect the r=27m ski is 188 long even if its stamped 187. Check that also.

post #12 of 23

Per volkl.com, dimensions are 104-67-85 for the 187.

 

Actual dimensions are not stamped on my ski, and I never asked.

 

I don't have a measuring tool handy, but I (sort of) doubt the 187s are actually 188s. Volkl has been producing 187/27s for a while (I have both the 2012 and 2011 ski right here, both are stamped 187). From everything I've been told from various reps, the 2013 and 2012 ski are identical except for the topsheets, which makes sense - why innovate on an outdated ski?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

 

Thanks for the info bruins14sammy. Would you be so kind and post the tip/waist/tail measurements of your 187/27 ski! Here are the measurements for my 188's:

 

Length: 188cm

Tip: 95mm

Waist: 65mm

Tail: 83mm

Radius: >= 30.0m

 

I wonder if there would be any advantage of keeping these skis insted of going back to r=27?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
The skis I tested last spring were stamped 188/27 but I guess they changed that over the summer not to mix it with the womens FIS ski. I suspect the r=27m ski is 188 long even if its stamped 187. Check that also.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins14sammy View Post

Per volkl.com, dimensions are 104-67-85 for the 187.

 

Actual dimensions are not stamped on my ski, and I never asked.

 

I don't have a measuring tool handy, but I (sort of) doubt the 187s are actually 188s. Volkl has been producing 187/27s for a while (I have both the 2012 and 2011 ski right here, both are stamped 187). From everything I've been told from various reps, the 2013 and 2012 ski are identical except for the topsheets, which makes sense - why innovate on an outdated ski?

 

 

 

Thanks. On my skis there are no dimensions printed on the skin.Wow, the 187cm ski is almost 10mm wider at the tip. My skis look like childrens skis I tell you. Phoned the rep but they dont have any 187 on stock. Only the 188. Thats what the FIS racers are buying right now.

 

I wonder if any master here tried a new FIS ski on a racing track..... it would be nice to hear some comments.

post #14 of 23

I skied a few manufacturers 195/35 skis a couple weekends back. It's a huge struggle. I'm sure that there will be a lot of development this year and next year's product will be better, but no question, it's a lot more work and a lot less forgiving. If you're not absolutely over the shovel, they just don't come around.

 

I, for one, will not be using them, because they are not fun. I guess that means this is my last year racing FIS. I'll survive, and continue USSA and increase my involvement in Masters racing.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

 

Thanks. On my skis there are no dimensions printed on the skin.Wow, the 187cm ski is almost 10mm wider at the tip. My skis look like childrens skis I tell you. Phoned the rep but they dont have any 187 on stock. Only the 188. Thats what the FIS racers are buying right now.

 

I wonder if any master here tried a new FIS ski on a racing track..... it would be nice to hear some comments.

post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks bruins. The 195/35 skis are probably really difficult to ski on, on a masters GS track but I wonder how the 188/30 shape up. Anybody compared the womens new R30 FIS skis to mens old R27 FIS skis? Theoretically its only 3m bigger radius but maybe the ski is softer or has other design features. When I compared R27 186 to 191 a few years back there was a huge difference in how they turned. The rep called me today and said there are no more 187s in stock.

post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 

bruins - my 188's doesent have any boot center mark on them. Or any other information regarding the plate/binding placement. Does your skis have a boot centermark? How far from the tail is it? Or how far from the tail is the plate placed?

 

Looking at my skis I see the following text: G1 F 4.1mm

 

Could it be that the centermark is embedded into the text somehow? That the centermark is between F and 4?

Also, how does the piston plate align to the centermark?

post #17 of 23

Unsure. My ski came with a plate premounted, and I mounted bindings to line up with my 2012 setup. I know the 2012 ski has a boot centermark - when I get home I'll look for a tapemeasure and try to get you a measurement, but no guarantees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

bruins - my 188's doesent have any boot center mark on them. Or any other information regarding the plate/binding placement. Does your skis have a boot centermark? How far from the tail is it? Or how far from the tail is the plate placed?

 

Looking at my skis I see the following text: G1 F 4.1mm

 

Could it be that the centermark is embedded into the text somehow? That the centermark is between F and 4?

Also, how does the piston plate align to the centermark?

post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks, that would be very kind of you. I have made the approximation that the centermark on my 188's are 815mm from the tail. That would put the piston plates aft end 530mm measured from the tail.

post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

bruins - my 188's doesent have any boot center mark on them. Or any other information regarding the plate/binding placement. Does your skis have a boot centermark? How far from the tail is it? Or how far from the tail is the plate placed?

 

Looking at my skis I see the following text: G1 F 4.1mm

 

Could it be that the centermark is embedded into the text somehow? That the centermark is between F and 4?

Also, how does the piston plate align to the centermark?

The 4.1 is the drill size

 

I thought that the plate positioning on Volkls was done by a measurement from the tail.  It appears in the US that finally for 2012 Volkl are premounting the plate

post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

The 4.1 is the drill size

 

I thought that the plate positioning on Volkls was done by a measurement from the tail.  It appears in the US that finally for 2012 Volkl are premounting the plate

 

I know but I was thinking that maybe the numbers are aligned to the centermark. Are all the plates on the race skis premounted in the US since 2012? We get them here without plates.

post #21 of 23

The 2012 skis you could get flat or with a plate (I got mine flat).

 

The 2013 skis (I think) all come premounted. The racer forms I've seen from three different reps all have premounted plates, and discussing with a couple others, said that all their skis would have mounted plates as well. However ... I'm sure some are still flat. Might be easier to get the flat version out east, near Volkl US HQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

 

I know but I was thinking that maybe the numbers are aligned to the centermark. Are all the plates on the race skis premounted in the US since 2012? We get them here without plates.

post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins14sammy View Post

The 2012 skis you could get flat or with a plate (I got mine flat).

 

The 2013 skis (I think) all come premounted. The racer forms I've seen from three different reps all have premounted plates, and discussing with a couple others, said that all their skis would have mounted plates as well. However ... I'm sure some are still flat. Might be easier to get the flat version out east, near Volkl US HQ.

 

 

 

 

Duhhh!!!  Yes, you are of course correct, I meant the 2013 ones!

post #23 of 23

FIS changed rules for 2013 and increased radius from 27 to 35m. reason is the large number of injuries due to high forces exerted on the skier when fast turning on skiis with small radius. It will eventaly settle between 'old; skis and extreeme curved skis. Another thing is that they reduced the hight of the boot from the snow surface to reduce the leverage again to reduce the injuries. Thsi is quite normal development

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