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Kastle BMX 108 question.

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
I just pulled the trigger on BMx 108 in 188 to replace my 191 Scott p4s which I loved. I searched and while dawgcatching wrote a stellar review, I haven't found any posts regarding its floatiness or lack thereof. Stability, quality, and big mountain qualities have been discussed, but how do they float in fresh snow relative to other 105-110 mm waisted skis? Any comparison to the 191 Scott p4 would be helpful as well.
post #2 of 9

Congrats on your purchase. I don't have much experience on the 108 (brief demo in non-powder soft), but I did own p4's next size down from yours years ago. The 108's will feel different, noticeably lighter and lot more snow feel, not as damp, not as turny at lower speeds, but more precise and more planted when ripping variable snow. Just a better ski IMO. Float is a function of speed, surface area, shovel shape, and your weight. I'm 165 lbs and in general, skis in this width don't really float for me in fresh pow as much as they run a few inches below the surface. The 108's cutouts and early rise helps keep them responsive even if you can't always see them. Not bottom dwellers, but not autopilot jump up and plane like a S7 either. It's a great width for a big mountain ski that'll see some of everything, but not for serious pow unless you really like to stay near the fall line and gun SG turns. 

post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Beyond, great points.

What I found with the p4 in the 191 at my body weight of 185 actually floated very well. Just a few inches below the surface, and I am just hoping for the same in the Kastle. I have a pair of 186 Lp's and those things bottom feed like crazy due to minimal tip and stiff metal construction. I am hoping the BMx isn't a slightly wider lp that bottom feeds.
post #4 of 9
Thread Starter 
I am really trying to thin down the quiver:
178 Sultan 85
186 LP
188 BMX 108
189 Hellbent

What I found with the 191 Scott P4, is that it didn't give up deep pow performance much at all to the hellbents, but was a lot quicker, versatile and stable. However the P4 was light years better in pow than the 97 mm LP. My hope is the BMX floats as well as P4 so I can nix the Hellbent altogether and go down to a 3 ski quiver.
post #5 of 9

OK, My WB quiver started out like this at the beginning of last year, which included the "Hugo Harrison Pro" model 108's. Almost from first turn I fell in love with them - quick, stable, floaty, and able to carve nasty arcs in anything better than least-coast "hardpack". OK, they weren't as good as the ObSETHed's in deep pow, but as a one ski quiver they were awesome.

 

1000

 

So I decided this pair would go top SLC for that quiver, and I'd get a new pair for WB. Both them and I were excited on that first gondola ride:

 

1000

 

We were excited because we got fresh tracks passes, and were heading to this:

 

1000

 

So how were they? Disappointing (man I WISH I'd had my ObSETHed's that day). Tip diving, hard to control, just awful. Compared to my old 108's there was NO comparison, and at that time my WB quiver had turned into this:

 

1000

 

So the shop tells me that, "yup, they're exactly the same, but thankfully, WB had their uber demo weekend, so I was able to ski another pair, and talk with the Kastle reps who confirmed that yes, there is a major difference, much like you'd find between an MX88 and BMX88, and that the old ones were very highly sought after, due to the same experience I had.

 

1000

 

I was very lucky to locate another pair of old ones, and have them now in my garage in FL, waiting for the next SLC adventure in January to run some hot laps. and play in the pow (I also have LP's there, and yes, they are not the uber-gnar for pow, looking to find the bottom regularly)

 

Bottom line - the newer 108's wasn't close to my old ObSETHed's in pow, whereas the old ones have pretty good performance. Not even on same planet. I would NOT get rid of the Hellbents until you get some time on the 108 in pow. Hope your experience will be better than mine.

post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Townicus View Post

I just pulled the trigger on BMx 108 in 188 to replace my 191 Scott p4s which I loved. I searched and while dawgcatching wrote a stellar review, I haven't found any posts regarding its floatiness or lack thereof. Stability, quality, and big mountain qualities have been discussed, but how do they float in fresh snow relative to other 105-110 mm waisted skis? Any comparison to the 191 Scott p4 would be helpful as well.

I haven't skied the P4, but I can say that at my weight, I thought the float was superior to the Elan Olympus I skied alot last year, also a bit better the Cochise I was skiing last year.  My experiences weren't the same as the poster below, probably for height/weight reasons. I find that the BMX108 is still a lot of ski in 188cm for someone my size: it is a go fast length, lots of work in tight trees and bumps.  The Cochise, as long as the snow is soft, it not quite as stable or floaty, but more playful, quicker, a bit more versatile.  The Olympus is even more playful and versatile, more turny then either the BMX108 and Cochise, not quite as comfortable in a straight line though. They are just really different skis.  If I have room to open it up, like skiing here locally, then the BMX108 is hard to beat.  Once it gets tracked out and bumped up, I am looking for a shorter ski though, usually a BMX98.  Both the 98 and 108's layups (current versions) work great for a skier of my weight and skill level. 

 

The old MX108 was definitely stiffer, but honestly, I didn't notice a huge difference in how demanding it was. It was plenty demanding though.....that layup was sweet. The old MX98 was similar, and if it had been made in 178cm, probably would have been my favorite ski of all time. 

post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
Snow fun 3,

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I will be keeping hellbents for a bit.
Interestingly, one of the reasons I bought the BMX is because it lacks metal nowadays and it has been my experience that softer layups tend to float better as they are easier to decamber. I feel this is precisely the reason the Lp's fail to float well ( combined with narrower tip).
Furthermore, just speculation, but on the order form the BMX 108 was listed and next to the sizes was a note "developed with Hugo Harrison". My thoughts are that although maybe his true pro model has a different layup, why would a ski company of an already extremely narrow market, soften and ruin "a legend of a ski" to appeal to more people? Again, it seems that softening a ski and taking metal out would only make it float better and contribute to a better "powder" ski?
post #8 of 9

I have the older 187 MX108, 194 LP's and 194 XXLs. I don't really think of any them as powder skis anymore? They float better than the LP's, about the same as the XXL's. 

You definitely want to be motoring to get them to perform.

 

You live in Vail?  They should absolutely crush the high speed crud busting in the back bowls, but maybe a handful in the bumps on PPL?   I'd probably keep the Hellbents and sell the LP's, if you can get anything for them?

 

For slower speeds in the trees, I picked up the Bent Chetlers.

post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

I have the older 187 MX108, 194 LP's and 194 XXLs. I don't really think of any them as powder skis anymore? They float better than the LP's, about the same as the XXL's. 

You definitely want to be motoring to get them to perform.

 

You live in Vail?  They should absolutely crush the high speed crud busting in the back bowls, but maybe a handful in the bumps on PPL?   I'd probably keep the Hellbents and sell the LP's, if you can get anything for them?

 

For slower speeds in the trees, I picked up the Bent Chetlers.

 

^^^ This is correct. Crushing crud would be a delight on the new 108's.

 

If you never want to get rid of your old 108's I have a number for the Kastle Rep you should call.

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