or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Boots at Soelden - Page 5

post #121 of 158

   Could be a looooong season for ya, plugrolleyes.gif

post #122 of 158
Noooooo!,, tell me it isn't so!! mad.gif

I just went out and bought redsters because it seemed that was all I needed to do to win more races. So who will trade me now for a pair of heads?.

On second thoughts, maybe I just need to borrow them for a month since by January it may be that I need fischers to win.......smile.gif
post #123 of 158
Thread Starter 
It was cool to see the DH yesterday in HD on NBC. I was impressed with the redsters on piste performance.

The announcer said Ted Ligety pulls more G forces than an astronaut taking off during his 75 degree turn. Yikes. Good thing those hundies are vasopressive!
post #124 of 158

Yep... without those Red boots, those guys would be digging ditches. Nothing to do with the talent in the boots whatsoever... so PBB, will we see you there next season after you crush Nor Am's and Europa Cup this season? Looking forward to seeing you on the podium. smile.gif And what gives? No love for Fischer anymore? 

 

(Honestly, just buy a pair, crush it, and shut everyone up, eh? smile.gif )

post #125 of 158
markojp...you should check out pbb's wild assertations on the thread I started in tuning and maintanence "blending hydrocarbons"....he MUST be a troll...or something;))
post #126 of 158

I think it's more of the 'or something', but it's entertaining at least.

post #127 of 158
Thread Starter 

Hey mark, how old are you?

post #128 of 158
I don't see that it's germane to the discussion, plug. But no worries. Love your enthusiasm for the newest latest gear. Let's just say I'm old enough to know that there are no surprise players on the podium.
post #129 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

I don't see that it's germane to the discussion, plug. But no worries. Love your enthusiasm for the newest latest gear. Let's just say I'm old enough to know that there are no surprise players on the podium.

I believe it's spelled "Jermaine"

post #130 of 158
post #131 of 158
plug, i forgot to mention how much i enjoy your new avatar;)) is that actually a pic of the ones you got?
post #132 of 158
Thread Starter 
Nope; that's off google but same model, I think.

I'm stoked to try them, that's all I know
post #133 of 158

Of course they'd all be in Scarpa, Crispi, Garmont or Black Diamiond if FIS allowed the use of freeheel bindings. biggrin.gif

post #134 of 158

"Her way is a good decision..."

post #135 of 158

Years ago when I was sailing in a lot of races at our local yacht club, the same sailors always won the races.  Conventional wisdom said that their boats were faster.  Every now and then we'd have a race where everyone switched boats.  The fast guys were still fast (even in a "slow" boat) and the slow guys were still slow even when using the "faster" boat.

post #136 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by choucas View Post

Years ago when I was sailing in a lot of races at our local yacht club, the same sailors always won the races.  Conventional wisdom said that their boats were faster.  Every now and then we'd have a race where everyone switched boats.  The fast guys were still fast (even in a "slow" boat) and the slow guys were still slow even when using the "faster" boat.

No one will ever convince me that any ski or boot manufacturer supporting WC racers has a significantly better technology. I am sure some wax techs are better than others, and that some skis are just faster for whatever reason for some people. But these skis do basically one thing at a certain speed. They are basically made from the same materials. These skis and boots do not have to be "versatile." Bode won on Fischer, Rossi, Atomic and HEAD. I imagine he could also won as much with Dynastar, Stockli or Volkl. If Atomic and HEAD have bigger racing budgets than the rest, then they should have more podiums. It is now unusual to see someone with a different ski, boot, and binding manufacturer, like Tina Maze. Money dictates a lot. How many golfers use a Titleist driver, Mizuno irons, Cleveland wedges, a Nike ball and a Ping putter?
post #137 of 158

I think there's only 1 person posting here who everyone else is trying to convince, quant. Most of us aren't any more. There's much to much good skiing to do! smile.gif

post #138 of 158
Thread Starter 

Ahh, Mister Hirscher has outdone the competition at Val D'Isere with his Atomic Redster boots.

 

 

However, I am quite impressed with HEAD boots now.  They have turned Julia Mancuso into a regular on the speed podiums.  But not sure if it's her KERS skis, or her HEAD Raptor boots.  Hmmm... we all know boots are more important, so I'm gonna guess it's something to do with her boots.  She used to ride Lange, but now is more consistent and superior in her HEAD boots.

post #139 of 158
Nice troll! smile.gif
post #140 of 158
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Nice troll! smile.gif

 

Bro, you ski in HEAD boots.  Are you saying they are not superior?  Are you going to lie and say their prevalence on the World Cup had nothing to do with your purchase?  Oh wait, don't even answer that, because we all know the answer.

post #141 of 158
glad to have ya back plug;)) honestly!!
post #142 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugBootBlues View Post

 

Bro, you ski in HEAD boots.  Are you saying they are not superior?  Are you going to lie and say their prevalence on the World Cup had nothing to do with your purchase?  Oh wait, don't even answer that, because we all know the answer.

 

No, it didn't. I've skied Lange most of my life. Why? They fit and functioned well for what I needed. I fully expected to be buying yet another pair when I went out to try other things out for a gut check after being away from fixed heel skiing for a long while. I ski in Head boots (98 last... I can't do the 95 at all) because they simply fit the best out of the box avoiding hours of boot work. I know better than to buy boots simply because 'racer X' skis them and know well that it isn't the same boot that's available to me. So 'Bro'... I've been at this whole sliding around on snow thing for about about 46 and a half of 50 years and know better. If someone makes a boot that fits my foot and falls within the performance perimeters of my needs better than my current boots, it'll be at the top of my list next time around. Your red boots? Doesn't matter who skis them and to what level of success. They don't fit my foot. If they work for you, great! More power to you. 

post #143 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugBootBlues View Post

Ahh, Mister Hirscher has outdone the competition at Val D'Isere with his Atomic Redster boots.

 

 

However, I am quite impressed with HEAD boots now.  They have turned Julia Mancuso into a regular on the speed podiums.  But not sure if it's her KERS skis, or her HEAD Raptor boots.  Hmmm... we all know boots are more important, so I'm gonna guess it's something to do with her boots.  She used to ride Lange, but now is more consistent and superior in her HEAD boots.

have you ever heard of something called money? the dude that owns Head has said something along the lines of "i could own a baseball,football or soccer team but i like skiing and chose to spend my money there" all of the Head athletes were successfull on their previous brands but with a limited time to make as much money as possible in sport they have followed the yellow brick road...

post #144 of 158
Thread Starter 
Lol marko you wrote a long reply and I didn't even read this time because I don't care what you think!
post #145 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugBootBlues View Post

Lol marko you wrote a long reply and I didn't even read this time because I don't care what you think!


Oh man.You are the embodiment of good behaviornonono2.gif I don't wanna take your illusions,but Atomic/Head/Tecnica/Dalbello,etc. plug boots are based on one of the legendary plug boot's shape of this century.Voilà! Nordica Dobermann.

post #146 of 158

Let me do this in two posts, because it's pretty long:

 

- At the WC level, and even below that, I would agree that it's pretty much the driver, not the car. However...

 

- Skis and boots (and even bindings) by the WC suppliers all have a different feel...a Fischer is different from a Head is different from an Atomic, and so forth. Might not be huge differences, but they exist. I think when WC racers switch brands, it's usually either for money, or because their results are lagging and they hope that maybe switching brands will reenergize their careers...or both. But the switch requires some work, usually over the summer. The trick is to do one of two things: (1) Adjust to the new feel. (2) Get the manufacturer and/or the techies to get the new brand to feel like the old one. There are, if you will, manufacturer patents, or exclusives, and sometimes that can be a factor. I've heard that the Fischer vacuum boot currently has a lot of fans on the WC, including those racers not on Fischer. Having said that, I seriously doubt that any racer on the WC is thinking things like "Ya know, that double-deck is obviously light years ahead of the pack, so I'm switching immediately from Brand x to Atomic..."

There really is one more factor in switching, I believe, which is that the racer believes he or she is going to get better service on the new brand. Service being two things: (1) Access to lots of skis, lots of different skis, and the R&D of the brand willing to go the extra mile to change ski design to try to help the racer and (2) The quality of the on-the-tour service. On the tour service being comprised of two things: (1) Service person to racer ratio, where the optimum is each racer having his or her own service rep, and (2) knowledge and skill of the service person. At the WC level, they're all good, obviously, but especially for the speed events, some reps are alleged to have really magic hands.

 

- So per the above discussion, one approach to the brand switch is to play with the gear to make it feel like the racer's old stuff. There's a level beyond that, however. Johan Eliasch, at Head, obviously has deep pockets, probably the primary reason that Bode, Lindsey Vonn, Julia Mancuso, Ted Ligety, Svindal, and a bunch of the other top racers are on Head. I believe, however, that when Bode made the switch, he and Didier Cuche and some of the other Head skiers sat down with Head R&D, at Eliasch's direction, to talk about how to make an already good ski better. At that juncture, Head was doing okay in speed events, not much in tech events, especially slalom. I believe that Bode especially was instrumental in helping Head redesign and improve the Head SL, and you see a ton of them today, at all levels, and it has become an excellent tool in SL. Head has added some new tech...as in the KERS, and you can believe that does something or not, as you choose. But Head is still a wood-core, laminate ski (which is a construction many of the top manufacturers favor), and so they evidently took those simple elements and reworked them into a better ski. So that, I believe is one real "let's get ahead of the competition" aspect to the manufacturer's arms race, and it usually has positive trickle down effects below the WC level.

So let's back off from the WC for a minute and talk about the trickle down effect and the innovation effect for a minute, on the level of, say, your average Masters racer, which is what I am. I've been on Atomic exclusively for years, and plan to stay there, but the race shop where I get my stuff (mostly at racer prices) also has Head, Nordica, and Rossignol, and the quality of the stock for all brands is really trustworthy. This shop supplies mostly juniors, some Masters, and the prices across brands are all about the same. And on the hill, you see a pretty even admixture of all of these brands because (1) all are decent race construction skis and boots and (2) all of them come through with very good manufacturing quality. So would I choose Atomic over the others? And I'm not a shill for Atomic, I'm just talking about the process of choosing a manufacturer for those of us who buy and tune our own skis...and maybe that group of racers has the most discerning eye re the most bang for the buck in terms of the dollars you're shelling out. So here goes:

post #147 of 158

- The Atomics I get are honest-to-God race stock...at a different, not necessarily lower, level than WC. For WC, Atomic may not have to put together an exotic construction for one of the top athletes...but they'll do it, if they think it's worth it. I heard a story that some years back, I heard a story that some years back, Benni Raich and his father found a tree on their property that they thought had exceptional wood, so they cut it down, brought it to the Atomic factory, and wouldn't you know it? Atomic made some tech skis out of it for Benni? I dunno if any of that kind of thing happens today, but as Primoz mentioned, you can choose a better grade of wood from the pile for the WC stars, and you can choose a better strip of Ptex from the roll (beginning or end is what I hear) for the speed skis. So that's the race stock level that the WC skiers pick from.

The next level I hear is that everything is flex matched, paired, and then the serial numbers for the pairs are stamped on...and then the racers themselves, or their tech reps, go through a stack of skis and pick out a bunch with which to start the season. If those work out, fine, if not, get Atomic to crank out some more and pick from them. I think that's kind of the Nor-Am/Euro cup level.

Everything else...which is still matched and flex-marked, mind you, either gets sent to the next lower level (like C team, in the U. S.) or sent to shops like the one I deal with for sale. One of my teammates just bought a pair of Atomic SLs from a guy on the C team, and the flex numbers are identical to the ones I bought, the construction looks identical, and we've both skied on both pairs and can find very little difference, if any. So I have a lot of confidence that the skis I buy are race stock.

The manufacturing quality of the skis I buy is excellent...no gaps between edge and base, no funky looking lamination issues, especially at the tip and tail, and a factory tune that's close to being skiable right out of the box. I always have a few things to touch up, but very few, before putting a new Atomic on the snow.

Let's next talk Atomic innovation. For me, at my level, Atomic innovation works and makes sense: 

- I just got a pair of Redster Pro 130s, which are significantly better than the RaceTec CS 130s I've been using. They moved the hinge back to give the boot a much better mechanical flex. The back of the cuff, whether it's pure carbon or not, is stiffer, so there's almost no give in that direction, which is important to me. You can rotate the cuff 10mm in either direction. The guy who set me up doesn't think I need it, but some day, I'm going to experiment with it, just to see if I can feel any advantage. There's a two-piece booster strap, technology I believe licensed from Booster, and it's the best strap I've ever used. Atomic supplies you with three sets of sole inserts with the boot...soft, medium, and hard. I'm currently skiing in the medium, but I have skied in the soft, and yes, there is a noticeable difference, so I'll try the soft for speed events some day soon, and the hard for SL. Most important, it's the easiest boot to get into and the best fitting boot I've ever skied in...the last was redone...and that's worth the price of admission to me.

Atomic ski innovation works for me. D2 for GS and above works for me...I can start turns more cleanly and with more finesse at speed with D2 than without. And as the WC stars found out, D2 is contraindicated for SL, and the flat deck SLs I have have a solider, cleaner initiation, better turn shape, and more zip out of the turn than the non-D2s. The new, full length plates on the Sls just add to that advantage.

- Finally, I like Atomic bindings. I can get the new X series in an 8-16 DIN range, which puts me right in the middle of the scale. The X series is easier to get into, much more durable, and has better protection against prerelease than its predecessors. Finally, you can now move the bindings around into one of seven, not five, positions, and you can do it more easily. And that's an Atomic advantage I don't plan to give up any time soon...


 

 

post #148 of 158

No more PBB. 

post #149 of 158

After working on the pro bike racing circuit for a while, I came to know that just because a bike has a certain logo on it does not mean it is always made by that brand. And if by chance it was, it is no where near the same as the one sitting in your local bike shop. I would assume it is close to the same for skiing.

 

 The pros have everything super dialed in for them, so the brand really doesn't matter. For us regualr consumers, we need to carefully research and continue to try "off the rack" gear till we find something that we like. I am sure Tiger Woods would still beat me in golf with a tin can tied to a broomstick, and Bode would beat me down the hill on a pair of girls junior skis.

 

Lets not take anything away from these amazing athletes by attributing their wins to equipment.

 

Equipment makes a big difference to us, but not them.

post #150 of 158

It sure seems like the (NASCAR origins) marketers' dream of "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" is alive and well here. They must go to sleep with lovely visions of dollar signs floating gently all around them

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home