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Cut losses or keep going? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post

A good boot fitter knows that repeat business (and new business through word of mouth) comes from happy feet.  Service for these folks is measured by fit and boot function matching the client's needs.

 

Internet sales don't work this way - service for this segment of the industry is measured by quickness of delivery.

 

I've noticed an increasing trend on EPIC for people who bought boots on the internet (and got a deal! mad.gif) to report that they have a crappy fit and/or the wrong boot.

I think you have to know what you are looking for and a lot of people don't do the research up from before buying the boots.

 

My boots near perfect fit, just had to move the cuff buckles to next hole (chicken legs), no custom insole.

 

But I agree, no homework, no fit and buying online for these type of products is a risk. For what I paid the risk was well worth it even if the boots didn't fit as I could have like gotten most of my money back in a resale.

 

My advice is:

 

Know your size for what you are buying.

Know why you are buying it.

Set a upper limit and stick to it (not a penny more).

Realize the risk.

Do your research (otherwise pay the guy at the store for their experience and buy from them)

Don't whine if it didn't work.

post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreFootDenver View Post

 

I have a very, very wide forefoot and arch, but an narrow heel. I also have the same sized boot. Tomorrow I'm going to drop a chunk of change and get the Fisher Soma 12 hybrid vaccuum boot that has a heat moldable shell and liner. Hopefully the shell will expand to better fit my "duck foot". The walking mode makes it much easier to enter the boot. The softer plastic on top also makes it easier. It is a chore to get on my current Tecnica boots with a custom foam liner. I don't even bother trying to tighten the buckle over the arch  Went to a couple of boot fitters to get recommendations and got different solutions from each. This boot seems to be a much better fit before molding than any of the others. It theoretically migtht work better on asymetrical feet. Best of luck.

I ordered the Fischer Soma Ranger 12 Vacuum (that's a freakin mouthful) I had a chance to put these on and for me they fit better out of the box than any other boot I put on. I left because of the cost, then I thought about it and I couldn't live with another boot knowing that there was one out there that would fit me better. So i manned up, went back, and now I'm waiting because they sold out of my size. I've got another month in my Salomons and I'm even delaying my season as much as I can stand, convincing myself that the resorts on the east coast that are open have sucky conditions and only have lame runs open, needless to say I'll be on my Salomons in a week which are a great boot (for my foot) but after 150+ 8hr days of skiing they are starting to break down.

 

Anyway, relating to this article about wether to drop them or not, it really comes down to if you can afford to. I've had to bite the bullet with my wife who had boots that were fine at the end of the season when she got them, then wouldn't fit right at the beginning of the following season, and my bootfitter (who I trust) could only make the problems partially go away, you win some, you lose some. When it comes to boots try on everything, 98mm boots don't ever fit my feet but i try them on anyway, i think it makes other boots feel less tight.

 

I ride what fits me best, It could say SquidSki on the side of it in big pink letters... actually I'd sport that even if it didn't fit my foot. LOL

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post

A good boot fitter knows that repeat business (and new business through word of mouth) comes from happy feet.  Service for these folks is measured by fit and boot function matching the client's needs.

 

Internet sales don't work this way - service for this segment of the industry is measured by quickness of delivery.

 

I've noticed an increasing trend on EPIC for people who bought boots on the internet (and got a deal! mad.gif) to report that they have a crappy fit and/or the wrong boot.

 

Not to hijack the thread, but:

 

I just read a paper talking about the impact of the Internet on sporting goods (work related).  The paper proves through economic law and surveys, that the Internet achieves 98% of it's sales by price, and 2% because of convenience or availability of product.  In golf, bowling, and skiing they found that over 90% of the purchases made on the internet were in a product that was beyond the skill set of the purchaser, and that if they had visited a specialty shop, they would have been encouraged into something that would perform better for their skill set.  In addition they spent roughly 40% more on the total purchase of gear online, with final fitting, mounting, drilling, or other costs, than they would have at a specialty shop getting gear that fit them in skill set, and actual fit better.  Only 4% of the customers that buy from an online retailer, make a repeat purchase from the same online retailer in the next 24 months.

 

Season Pass, Club Membership, or Bowling League retention rates:  1st year retention if they bought their clubs, skis or boots, a bowling ball online, they ended up with about a 12% renewal rate the following year, on the pass, membership, or league.  If they bought in a shop the retention rate was just over 65%.  They also estimate that nearly 20% of the people that give up the sport, that have done it for 2 or more years prior, give it up after making an incorrect purchase online, or having warranty issues that they can't process through the local shop.  

 

So in reality, the Internet is having a very negative effect on people enjoying and staying in the sport.

 

Canadianskier, you are correct, as this is saying that over 90% of the people that purchase online, buy the wrong size, or wrong product for their skill set.  How could they be happy?

post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by msprace View Post

 

Not to hijack the thread, but:

 

I just read a paper talking about the impact of the Internet on sporting goods (work related).  The paper proves through economic law and surveys, that the Internet achieves 98% of it's sales by price, and 2% because of convenience or availability of product.  In golf, bowling, and skiing they found that over 90% of the purchases made on the internet were in a product that was beyond the skill set of the purchaser, and that if they had visited a specialty shop, they would have been encouraged into something that would perform better for their skill set.  In addition they spent roughly 40% more on the total purchase of gear online, with final fitting, mounting, drilling, or other costs, than they would have at a specialty shop getting gear that fit them in skill set, and actual fit better.  Only 4% of the customers that buy from an online retailer, make a repeat purchase from the same online retailer in the next 24 months.

 

Season Pass, Club Membership, or Bowling League retention rates:  1st year retention if they bought their clubs, skis or boots, a bowling ball online, they ended up with about a 12% renewal rate the following year, on the pass, membership, or league.  If they bought in a shop the retention rate was just over 65%.  They also estimate that nearly 20% of the people that give up the sport, that have done it for 2 or more years prior, give it up after making an incorrect purchase online, or having warranty issues that they can't process through the local shop.  

 

So in reality, the Internet is having a very negative effect on people enjoying and staying in the sport.

 

Canadianskier, you are correct, as this is saying that over 90% of the people that purchase online, buy the wrong size, or wrong product for their skill set.  How could they be happy?

 

Awesome.   Any chance of a direct link to paper?

post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMcD View Post

I ordered the Fischer Soma Ranger 12 Vacuum (that's a freakin mouthful) I had a chance to put these on and for me they fit better out of the box than any other boot I put on. I left because of the cost, then I thought about it and I couldn't live with another boot knowing that there was one out there that would fit me better. So i manned up, went back, and now I'm waiting because they sold out of my size. I've got another month in my Salomons and I'm even delaying my season as much as I can stand, convincing myself that the resorts on the east coast that are open have sucky conditions and only have lame runs open, needless to say I'll be on my Salomons in a week which are a great boot (for my foot) but after 150+ 8hr days of skiing they are starting to break down.

 

Anyway, relating to this article about wether to drop them or not, it really comes down to if you can afford to. I've had to bite the bullet with my wife who had boots that were fine at the end of the season when she got them, then wouldn't fit right at the beginning of the following season, and my bootfitter (who I trust) could only make the problems partially go away, you win some, you lose some. When it comes to boots try on everything, 98mm boots don't ever fit my feet but i try them on anyway, i think it makes other boots feel less tight.

 

I ride what fits me best, It could say SquidSki on the side of it in big pink letters... actually I'd sport that even if it didn't fit my foot. LOL

Update - 4 days on my new Fisher Vaccum boots.

 

First day - boots are VERY responsive, but my arches and toes were cold/painful (even with the alledgedly improved liner this year). Went back and got Zip Fit liners with a stretchable forefoot and the toe problem is gone. Also remoldeded the shell with the new liner and got much more arch room. Only two problems now, the boots barely close over the arch and ironically, too much room in the forefoot on the right, Have skiied 3 more days with no pain or cold feet!. I think further adjustments will fine tune things.Now just trying to balance performace vs comfort. Did a demo day today and ran into a couple who both had new Fisher vaccum boots from the same bootfitter. He said his are grrrrrrrrrrrreat and she said she needs some adjustments.

post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreFootDenver View Post

Update - 4 days on my new Fisher Vaccum boots.

 

First day - boots are VERY responsive, but my arches and toes were cold/painful (even with the alledgedly improved liner this year). Went back and got Zip Fit liners with a stretchable forefoot and the toe problem is gone. Also remoldeded the shell with the new liner and got much more arch room. Only two problems now, the boots barely close over the arch and ironically, too much room in the forefoot on the right, Have skiied 3 more days with no pain or cold feet!. I think further adjustments will fine tune things.Now just trying to balance performace vs comfort. Did a demo day today and ran into a couple who both had new Fisher vaccum boots from the same bootfitter. He said his are grrrrrrrrrrrreat and she said she needs some adjustments.

 

That's a heck of a lot of sketchiness for a $900 "game changer" boot.  Just sayin... your account of the initial few days sounds almost like you bought a conventional boot.

post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugBootBlues View Post

 

That's a heck of a lot of sketchiness for a $900 "game changer" boot.  Just sayin... your account of the initial few days sounds almost like you bought a conventional boot.

True, but remember I have a really, really, really hard foot to fit. I supsect that people with fewer gentic defects will have better results out of the box. Despite my tribulations, this boot fit the best out of the box of any boot I've ever tried on. Although work has needed, it's the best fit I've ever had. A work in progress.

post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreFootDenver View Post

True, but remember I have a really, really, really hard foot to fit. I supsect that people with fewer gentic defects will have better results out of the box. Despite my tribulations, this boot fit the best out of the box of any boot I've ever tried on. Although work has needed, it's the best fit I've ever had. A work in progress.

 

Fair enough.

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreFootDenver View Post

Update - 4 days on my new Fisher Vaccum boots.

First day - boots are VERY responsive, but my arches and toes were cold/painful (even with the alledgedly improved liner this year). Went back and got Zip Fit liners with a stretchable forefoot and the toe problem is gone. Also remoldeded the shell with the new liner and got much more arch room. Only two problems now, the boots barely close over the arch and ironically, too much room in the forefoot on the right, Have skiied 3 more days with no pain or cold feet!. I think further adjustments will fine tune things.Now just trying to balance performace vs comfort. Did a demo day today and ran into a couple who both had new Fisher vaccum boots from the same bootfitter. He said his are grrrrrrrrrrrreat and she said she needs some adjustments.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm expecting the best for them. I'm not sure the vacuum thing is real or not but I do know some bootfitters are really hating what this boot means, and others look at it like just another tool to help them reach their customers goals.I tend to look at it like a tool. my bootfitter said what they're doing is for known problem areas making up some pads to mold in a pocket, and that this system is a great way to get really close to perfect, but some fine tuning is almost a given.

Did your vacuums come with the lace liners? I've heard that the 11-12 boots had sub par liners, and that is was something they worked on in the offseason
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

Awesome.   Any chance of a direct link to paper?

If I had a link, but I only have a hard copy.  It was given to me by a sporting goods manufacturer we distribute for.  If I had approval from the author I'd scan it and post it for you.

post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMcD View Post


Thanks for the feedback, I'm expecting the best for them. I'm not sure the vacuum thing is real or not but I do know some bootfitters are really hating what this boot means, and others look at it like just another tool to help them reach their customers goals.I tend to look at it like a tool. my bootfitter said what they're doing is for known problem areas making up some pads to mold in a pocket, and that this system is a great way to get really close to perfect, but some fine tuning is almost a given.
Did your vacuums come with the lace liners? I've heard that the 11-12 boots had sub par liners, and that is was something they worked on in the offseason

I'm fairy sure that none of the vaccum boots COME with lace liners, although the aftermarket Zip Fits that I have do have laces. Pads can be used depending on whether you want a recreational fit or race fit. My boot fitter routinely uses a toe cap, pads around the side of the foot just above the little toe, the side of the large toe, the anke bones and over the arch (common pressure points). I don't know if you have seen the Fisher Vaccum thread from the boot fitter in Jackson Hole, but I've found his experience to be quite interesting.

post #42 of 47
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpuff View Post


I guess I should add why I asked that question is that because I got the feeling that he did not really want to spend that much time fitting me. Got a bit of that 'meh' vibe from him. Maybe that's just the way he is, but I noticed he would wander away to use the computer and then come back.
Sorry to sound negative.

Just a thought.

 

First, your boot is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR GEAR.  Anyone who has more than 2 weeks of bootfitting experience knows this. It is the connection between your body and your skis. Not only does it transmit power and movement, but it also dictates your entire vacation or at least ski days comfort. A good fit will provide tons of enjoyment, while a poor fit can ruin your day in 15 minutes. When bootfitting I always try to explain every step of the process to a customer. From why a particular shell matches specific lower leg and foot shapes to why supporting the arch and alignment is so important. It is often shocking to me why people are often willing to spend thousands on a ski trip but want the absolute cheapest deal on a boot and can not see beyond the price (i.e., I paid so much more for the boot than I could have gotten it for online). When you say your bootfitter wandered away, he may have just wanted you to spend some time in the boots to see if any pressure spots developed and may not have explained that well to you. Also, do you know what he was looking at on the computer? Sorry that I'm little defensive about this, but it happens often in our shop. While I am helping a customer, who is looking for the best deal possible, and am letting their foot settle into a boot, I will often go to the computer to look for what else we may have in stock at another store in their size, and often cross check our price with other shop's online prices to make sure my customer is getting the fairest deal possible. If we do walk away, we do try to explain to the customer why and what we are doing. Unfortunately, in today's world, fairly often we will get through all of this (often easily at least an hour's worth time just to get the best shell/liner combo for a customer) only to see the customer leave to order an online deal that we just could not match. It is amazing to me how many people will come in to get a service (that they must for some reason see as free) just to write the model and size down and go order it online.

 

I hope that your bootfitter just did not do a good job explaining what he was doing as I hope I would have done. We do try to develop the best relationship possible with our customer. We are on a first name basis with many of our customers, and honestly, I would appreciate it if this had happened in our shop that they related this experience back to us. I do not think I would be offended, and in the end may have had a good laugh about it with the customer. 

 

I am sorry if this sounds like a rant! I really did not mean it to come out that way. I was just trying to give you a little perspective from the other side. Hope your new boots work out for you! 

post #44 of 47
As long as the paper is already published it should be fine to share it with others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msprace View Post

If I had a link, but I only have a hard copy.  It was given to me by a sporting goods manufacturer we distribute for.  If I had approval from the author I'd scan it and post it for you.
post #45 of 47
I've got a new pair of Lange RS 120s, and I love them. I do almost feel like I'm going to sprain my ankle getting into the right one (my right foot's bigger than my left), and it's a bear to get it back off, but once they're on they feel great. Fitting took a long, long, long time, but it appears to have been well worth the $$$.

I'm not sure where spurs grow, but the liner's comfy around my heel, and my toes can finally wiggle a little, while my forefoot is held firmly. A little too firmly, actually, which'll be an adjustment if they still feel that way after I've got more time in them. I've only skied three half days in them, but after two seasons of pain and suffering they feel like heaven. Oh, and I almost feel like I can ski, too.biggrin.gif The only downside is that my feet have been cold, probably because of the tight forefoot.

It's reassuring to hear that having trouble getting them on and off is normal, though. My bootfitter showed me a trick, but it's clear that ease of donning and shedding your boots isn't foremost on Lange's list of priorities.

Anyhow, sorry to have wandered OT, but good on you for finding what sounds like the right boot and the right fitter. Having been poorly served by my previous boots, I completely sympathize with your struggles and slight lack of confidence in your new guy. I bought these in April and spent the summer being anxious that they'd be just another instrument of torture, but hopefully you'll have the experience I'm having of finding out you did the right thing in doing what was necessary to get yourself fitted properly in the right boot.
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

It's reassuring to hear that having trouble getting them on and off is normal, 

 

It's normal only if you have a 2-piece boot.duck.gif

post #47 of 47
I meant normal for Langes. cool.gif:
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