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Technical feedback on big mountain skiing

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Hi, Could I get some purely technical feedback on my ski technique in this video.

Thanks, Jamie.

post #2 of 29

Hi Jamie,

 

Pretty good.  You got a very solid base to work from.  My main focus for you, would simply be to "round things out" a little more, when and where you can. 

 

My observation is this:

 

In the rock gardens and tight spots, you pivot the skis quickly, then use a side slip to control speed, usually before a hit.  Nothing wrong with that in those spaces, its what the pros do also.  However, when the terrain opens up, you should too.  Slow the rate of your pivot, and slow and increase the amount of your extension/flexion.  It will enable you to ski alot more dynamically (ie turn instead of just side slip) between the various terrain features.  Again, you wont be able to do this all the time...but when you can, you should.  Will look way better, and give you a much better line.  At the moment you look like you are in tight, really steep spots pretty much all the time....even when you arent.  Try to open it up more when you can by playing with adjusting the rate of your pivot, and rate and amount of flexion/extension.

 

Perfect example around 18 seconds...instead of having a progressive turn to the viewers right, you just chuck em sideways to dump speed, you have tons of space here, and should ski it accordingly.

 

Extend ankles/knees/hips together, will get your mass up and centered...slow the pivot down to be more progressive.  As you flex, again, its progressive and ankles knees hips together..."down and in", to get the skis on edge and working for you.

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thank you, very constructive. You're right about slowing down the pivot, I just need to be a bit more patient in the turn when I have space. Not be afraid to ski a little more in the fall line.
 


Edited by jombob - 10/6/12 at 3:24pm
post #4 of 29

I think you could pick your lines better. In the first minute, You want from a drop with a flat landing, that threw you back and you weren't able to hit your next take off right and almost landed on a rock. Later on, numerous hairy double stage drops where if you trip up on the top, you will be cartwheeling over rocks. 

post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

I agreed with the technical feedback from skidude 72 but tromano, not sure if you've ever competed in a freeride comp, outside of the USA you only get a visual inspection from below and don't actually get to ski the venue. It's hard to tell if a landing is steep or flat and judging take off angles can be difficult. Double stage drops score huge if you stick them.
 

post #6 of 29

Nice skiing, jombob.  Welcome to Epic.  You are competing?

post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 

Hi, yeah have been competing for the last 2 southern hemisphere winters in New Zealand on the freeride world qualifiers
 

post #8 of 29

Finish your turns, it looks like you are also in the back seat a little. Someone mentioned picking your lines, if you would have landed on that rock at the bottom of that chute you boosted, you would have big issues. 

 

My ski instructor buddies would tell you to slow down to speed up, basically you are at a point in your skiing that you need to slow down work on technique or bad technique could hold you back. Decent skiing though. 

post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 

Finishing the turns is definitely something I need to work on, probably by slowing down my pivot earlier in the turn as skidude72 said. My view on a weight forward stance is that it's just something misinformed ski instructors say, off piste pulling up the toes engaging the tibialis anterior and allowing the bum to be slightly further back I find very effective. It's a bit hard in a comp to think about slowing down, the amount of adrenaline you have just makes you try and ski as fast as possible.
 

post #10 of 29

Very nice skiing.  How did you place in that competition?

 

Other than what what was already said, I thought I noticed a couple of places where you let your shoulders and arms drop back rather than keeping them in front of you to help drive you down the fall line.  Dropping your shoulders and arms will put you in the back seat which is where you were a couple of times.  However I am not sure if I could have done any better and probably would have been worse, especially with your jumps which I am not that comfortable doing with all of the rock exposure.

 

Good luck on the tour!

 

Rick G

post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 

So far in the FWQ I've had a 1st, two 5th, a 6th, an eighth and a 12th. The standard of skiing is going up so fast I'm not sure how long I'm going to stick with it for, it takes its tole on your body. It's interesting to see the variety of skiers who compete and comparing the ex-racers technique to ex-freestylers technique.
 

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jombob View Post

So far in the FWQ I've had a 1st, two 5th, a 6th, an eighth and a 12th. The standard of skiing is going up so fast I'm not sure how long I'm going to stick with it for, it takes its tole on your body. It's interesting to see the variety of skiers who compete and comparing the ex-racers technique to ex-freestylers technique.
 

 

Congrats on your results!

 

Which technique is better in competition, the ex-racers, or the ex-freestylers?  

Or are the styles just different, but neither "better?"

Oh, and which background is yours?

post #13 of 29

I'd go with Jeremy Nobis, Hugo H, Seth, and Darren R... all ex-racers or have race backgrounds. Something about their skiing just screams balanced, fluid, and completely solid both on the snow and in the air, even if the younger guys are doing crazier tricks.  

 

Just curious jom, what are you doing for body armor?

post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jombob View Post

Finishing the turns is definitely something I need to work on, probably by slowing down my pivot earlier in the turn as skidude72 said. My view on a weight forward stance is that it's just something misinformed ski instructors say, off piste pulling up the toes engaging the tibialis anterior and allowing the bum to be slightly further back I find very effective. It's a bit hard in a comp to think about slowing down, the amount of adrenaline you have just makes you try and ski as fast as possible.
 

 

 

Hmmm, yeah that is one way to look at it, however the best skiers I know do not ski on the tails of their skis. Look at the best skiers on the plant and tell me they are using your methods. Watch some video of Shane, Ralhves, Plake, anyone that is really good at turning skis not skidding them and I doubt they are in the back seat. I was also going to mention your hand position in my earlier post, you can't have your hands out in front and ski in the back seat, you will wear yourself out and things will get even more messy. 

 

Also the ski instructors I'm quoting are far from misinformed, they are some of most solid skier on the hill.  Anyway, keep doing what you want, those of us that live in Tahoe don't know that much about skiing, we just do it between 70-100 days a year, year in and year out.   

post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ske-Bum View Post


Hmmm, yeah that is one way to look at it, however the best skiers I know do not ski on the tails of their skis. Look at the best skiers on the plant and tell me they are using your methods. Watch some video of Shane, Ralhves, Plake, anyone that is really good at turning skis not skidding them and I doubt they are in the back seat. I was also going to mention your hand position in my earlier post, you can't have your hands out in front and ski in the back seat, you will wear yourself out and things will get even more messy. 

Also the ski instructors I'm quoting are far from misinformed, they are some of most solid skier on the hill.  Anyway, keep doing what you want, those of us that live in Tahoe don't know that much about skiing, we just do it between 70-100 days a year, year in and year out.   

Don't forget Ingrid! smile.gif. And I have to agree about the 'misinformed instructors' thing.

Jom, If you had the chance to come over and hang out at Squaw or Jackson, I think you'd find that the best are certainly not in the back seat. Honestly, some good coaching and even help with seeing movement analysis more clearly might be a good course of action. The skiers that Ske-bum and I have mentioned have all received a huge amount of coaching at some point in their careers. I'm sure one of the side benefits to this is that they can all very accurately self-diagnose problems in their skiing when they see themselves on film on an off'ish day.
Edited by markojp - 10/11/12 at 12:02am
post #16 of 29

Yep, backseat and getting out of the fall line way too often. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

 

IMHO:  The risk/reward ratio of Freeskiing Comps is just too great!  Too many comps go off in marginal conditions and people get hurt for little or no money.

Trust me, all the free swag you get is worthless when your looking at major surgery later in life.

post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 

Liquidfeet - I find the Ex-racers and ex-freestylers are quite evenly matched now, it really depends on what venue they are skiing - exposure, natural lips off cliffs, pitch of slope. I grew up racing on dry ski slopes (made of plastic) then skied freestyle on snow before moving to freeride.

 

Markojp - Agree with your list of top skiers especially Seth, I'm not sure I like Hugo Harrison's style as much, no doubt he rips but it looks like he's always trying way too hard. Regarding the body armour, I wear a Dainese back protector vest which also has rib and collar bone protection.

 

Ske-bum - Valid point but read the sentence after the one you put in bold "off piste pulling up the toes engaging the tibialis anterior and allowing the bum to be slightly further back I find very effective". With a more modern mount point on a ski this makes you very centered, take a look at Sean Pettit skiing, he'll give any of those guys a run for their money.

Sorry about my skepticism of ski instructors I've just met so many who did a lot of talking about skiing and not a lot of actual skiing. I'm a ski instructor myself and ski over 200 days a year.....year in year out.

 

Shredhead - These slopes are much steeper than they look in the video, I was asking for constructive feedback.

I compete in the comps because the people are awesome and the social side is amazing, Nothing beats the adrenaline rush and I genuinely enjoy it. New Zealand comps happen in the most marginal conditions of all and if you can ski in those conditions you can ski anything.

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jombob View Post

 

Ske-bum - Valid point but read the sentence after the one you put in bold "off piste pulling up the toes engaging the tibialis anterior and allowing the bum to be slightly further back I find very effective". With a more modern mount point on a ski this makes you very centered, take a look at Sean Pettit skiing, he'll give any of those guys a run for their money.

Sorry about my skepticism of ski instructors I've just met so many who did a lot of talking about skiing and not a lot of actual skiing. I'm a ski instructor myself and ski over 200 days a year.....year in year out.

 

 

I read your sentence in fact I read it twice. Fine ski that way if you want, doesn't matter to me. It takes more energy and limits how steep of slopes you can ski in control and never mind going faster. I have seen Sean Pettit ski, please don't tell me you are comparing your form is to his, I don't see it sorry.  Also don't see the 200 days a year either. I hope you aren't teaching this "technique".

post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 

I'm not claiming to be a pro skier or anything like Sean Pettit, I'm just saying different ski techniques work for different people, take a look at the winning line in the NZ open by B devine, Don't you think the overall result of what the skis do can be more important than the body position if you take into account many people mount their skis in the center now and come from different skiing backgrounds.

And when it comes to the 200 days a year comment, lets see some footage of you skiing any better. Skip to 4.17 in this vid and see if you think you could do better.


Edited by jombob - 10/12/12 at 3:34am
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jombob View Post

 

And when it comes to the 200 days a year comment, lets see some footage of you skiing any better. 

 

Sorry bro, I'm not as big a narcissist as you are. I don't post videos of myself on the web saying look at how well I ski.

 

However, if I did have a video of myself there are two things that are for certain, the turns would be finished and the form would be better. 

post #21 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ske-Bum View Post

 

Sorry bro, I'm not as big a narcissist as you are. I don't post videos of myself on the web saying look at how well I ski.

 

However, if I did have a video of myself there are two things that are for certain, the turns would be finished and the form would be better. 

 

If you actually look back at the title of the thread I was asking to be critiqued, part of the review process is conveying my thoughts as well as listening to what other peoples input is. Thanks for the great feedback from skidude72, Liquidfeet, Rickg, Markojp really helpfull to get some feedback from people I don't know as sometimes friends can sugarcoat the truth a bit when it comes to ski technique.

 

I kind of expected a more friendly enviroment on Epicski comments like "Also don't see the 200 days a year either" are not very welcoming. Can't wait to see some videos from you this winter ske-bum.

post #22 of 29

While I'm not qualified to discuss any of the technical stuff, I will say that run in NZ was pretty damn sweet and appeared much more confident and fall line aggressive than some of the other runs in the first video.

post #23 of 29
Quote from jombob:

Hi, Could I get some purely technical feedback on my ski technique in this video.

Thanks, Jamie.

 

I'm going to describe things in general terms rather than with technical details... that's usually what I do anyway, but I think that freeskiers relate especially well to that kind of advice.  I am a steep skier as well, so I hope I am a good person to respond here.

 

You do kind of a hip-wiggle to make some of your turns (see turn at 0:22 for one example).  You'll have to practice flowing from one turn to the next.  Your weight is on your uphill ski a lot (see turn at 0:13 for one example).   You'll do better if you put weight on your downhill ski more consistently.  I think you might be able to get better control and fluidity points if you slow down a little bit, at least until your technique progresses more... it'd be safer (it looked to me like you just about killed yourself at 0:46).  I also think you should bring your legs together in general.  Also, if you work on absorption, you might be able to suck up the little bumps in crud and stuff rather than getting bounced off balance. 

 

You're at a point where you could benefit from some imitation.  I would imitate this: Dominique Perret:  http://youtu.be/_Mzcf3xyxvU

 

Quote from jombob:
Sorry about my skepticism of ski instructors I've just met so many who did a lot of talking about skiing and not a lot of actual skiing.

 

I agree.  I am definitely skeptical of ski instructors and I have chosen not to become psia or anything else with a label.  Internet forums are full of talking rather than skiing.  Anyone online can be the 'best skier in the world' if they never ski with the people they're talking to or post videos to back up their words.  For my 'actual skiing' you can click here: http://youtu.be/v_9ff4Lh6Zc  I am not saying it 'is' or 'isn't' anything in particular, I've just always thought it's nice to show who you are as a skier while making comments about someone else's skiing or giving advice. 


Edited by Ronin - 10/28/12 at 3:06pm
post #24 of 29
Blake, I have to disagree with imitating mr. P. The vid is old. The gear is significantly different, an required very different technique. I'd go into detail, but I'm short on time. Watch a more recent vid of say Darren Rahlves and the gear driven differences are self evident.

(The run at around 5:30 in the clip, Mr. Perot has made about 5 times the number of turns that today's bog mountain comp guys would have made on the same run and same conditions. His narrower skis don't really allow for a nice 'slarvy' line adjustment. )
post #25 of 29
Quote from markojp:
Blake, I have to disagree with imitating mr. P. The vid is old. The gear is significantly different, an required very different technique.

Are you sure that video's old?  I didn't think it was.  There's more that on Perret video on the net anyway though, maybe another would be better.  I don't have time to look right now, I am low on time too.  I stand by my comments though.  I like the skiing in the Perret video I posted. 

post #26 of 29

At 4:05 you can see his ski pretty well.  I think it´s a rossignol xxxbandit which was fatish.  I don´t think this is so old that they´re straight skis or anything, but I will say this in reference to markojp´s comment... as much as I like the skiing in the Perret video, it may not be exactly what the judges are looking for so aim to imitate the longer turns in the video.  Let me try to be more specific... imitate the turns like the ones at 3:45.  Does that make more sense?  It makes sense to me. 

 

post #27 of 29
Blake, look at the skis.... No doubt he's a great skier, as is scott Schmitt, etc.... But the gear, clothing, and technique tells me this is older footage. Maybe late 90's... The XXX was one of the original 'fat' skis at around 86 underfoot. It was a game changer for sure. At the time it was the widest ski on the market other than the dynastar BIG if I recall. The Stockli storm rider was a year later, and also one of the original big skis.
Edited by markojp - 10/28/12 at 3:20pm
post #28 of 29

Late 90´s could be right.

post #29 of 29
Jombob , it is an awesome skiing. People said a lot of good things on what to improve, I want to add my 2 cents on HOW part.

1. Back seat is killing you! However, in your case, it is not a problem of your technique - the problem is your boot alignment! Trust me, I have been there myself and I am not a bootfitter.

It could be one of two things or most likely both:
a) too much forward lean (you should aim for 12 degree and it looks you have closer to 18 degree, have bootfitter to measure or find factory specs for your boots)
b) your boot is not aligned laterally ( in other words your knees are either pointing inside or outside and you boot was not aligned to compensate). Lack of lateral alignment makes people to lean back and to the slope in order to get an edge grip at the last 1/3 of the turn. You shim the boot and back seat at the end of the turn will disappear by itself.

So find a bootfitter that is qualified to work on forward lean angle and plant boots for lateral alignment and you will never here "back seat" again! This forum is the best resource to find a bootfitter like that.

2. Opening up turns and minimizing side slipping - you need to learn one more (the most important and most neglected in the era of shaped skis) way to control your speed - steered turn. www.yourskicoach.com is the best resource. At glance, you do steered turn exactly the same way you do pivot turn, but instead of unweighting your ski towards the apex of the turn, keep you ski loaded (push then into the snow) at all stages of the turn. This turn could be very light touch or could be very aggressive (depends on your speed and force that you apply when pushing your skis into the snow). It will open your line and will allow you move faster (despite the fact that you are steering a lot) and will give you more control over your line. Use this in the places people tell you to open your line.

3. Your jumps are awesome! But if you want to show better time on the competitions, you need to be conscious, that air acceptable only if it cuts significantly on your travel trajectory, otherwise it slows you down, as sliding on the snow is much faster

Good luck!
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