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Ski Advice - Volkl Mantra vs Salomon Lord vs Volkl Bridge vs ??

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hey Guys,

  Just sold my Head Peak 78's, and ready to buy some new gear.  I am looking for some advice, as I don't have good accessability to demo ski's.  I generally ski out west in the spring, but always look for powder and mogul runs.   My Head ski's were not Mogul friendly, or maybe it was just me!  I would like an all mountain ski that favors moguls and can handle powder.  Basically, something that is really easy to handle and turns quick.  I am 6"2 and 175 lbs.  I am a pretty good skier, I would say 7 out of 10.  Really want to work on mastering the Moguls in the next few years.  All that said, I would love to hear comments on what ski (assuming I can only have 1) I should haul out to Vail with me in March.  My top candidate now is the Bridge, just because from what I have read it seems to be a good all mountain ski that will do better in the bumps over the Mantra.  Skiing in early March I don't find a ton of powder unless I am lucky, which is why I am leaning towards the Bridge.  I know there has been a lot of talk on this very subject, but would love to hear some sizing reco's also.  My Head's were 171, and I think 78 under foot.  I am looking forward to trying something larger under foot and I read that the rocker type ski is a lot easier to turn, and I am hoping that this means on the moguls as well!  My head's did ok on Moguls until powder came into play, so I am thinking this has something to do with the under foor dimension?

 

Net, what do you think?  Any other ski's I should be considering??  Is a 177 in the Bridge too short?  I am a little concerned that going any longer will make the bumps even harder!

 

Thanks in advnace.

-Brad

post #2 of 20

You seem to be kind of scattered in what you are looking at here. Your mix of choices (Mantra, Lord, Bridge) are not at all similar. Here are some general things to think about for each of these.

 

  • Mantra: Stiffest ski in it's width category by a lot and generally the worst of the ~~ 98mm skis in bumps and powder.
  • Bridge: Better than the above and maybe great if you can mind meld with the continuous rocker. Personally I liked the older (non- rockered) version quite a bit and don't care much for the new version but YMMV.
  • Lord: Very nice ski in the moderate performance range. Easy in bumps, good in powder for its width, some high end speed limit but no worse than the Bridge.

 

Given your goals the Lord may be a better choice than the Bridge but the Bridge could be OK if you can adapt to the modest full rocker. If I were to suggest a ski it probably would not be any of the above. I'd be looking at the Nordica Steadfast, Salomon Rocker2 90, or the Head Rev 90. These three are all medium flex, tip rise, and a very light and nimble feel without the higher end (firm snow) shortcomings of the probable winner out of your original mix (Sollie Lord)

 

SJ

post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 

SJ,

  Thanks for the response.  This is awesome info and I have been doing major research all morning instead of working:).  My only follow up questions is for length... do you think i should be looking in the 177 range or the 185 range for these ski's?  From what I read 185 is the way to go at 6"2 and 175 lbs, but does the longer length make them harder to ski in moguls?  coming off of my 171 ski I hope I don't feel that all that extra ski out in front of me is harder to turn???

 

Thanks again,

B

post #4 of 20

There is no easy answer to the length question. Your weight and ability would be fine on 175-8 ish and those factors are more important than height. Everything is tradeoffs and preferences and in the length question, you sacrifice a bit in stability at high speeds and deep snow lift, in favor of maneuverability in bumps and tight spots. Given your goals, I'd be fine suggesting the mid-high 70's but you could go either way. There's not really a right answer to this........just your preferences.

 

Check out the "Nordica Armada" of cosmetic blemish Nordica skis......you might find something there that you like for less than 1/2 of a 2013 model.

 

SJ

post #5 of 20

Agree with SJ, of those you mention only the Lord makes any sense; the new Rocker2 92 twin would be even easier in bumps and has a more solid construction than the Lord did. Seems like it might be an updated, evolved Pocket Rocket. Which were remarkable in bumps. Stay away from the Mantra especially; lot of virtues but moguls not among them. Bridge, meh. Nice ski but a bit wide and stiff for being aimed at bumps; agree that it's lost its way along with all the other full rocker Volkls. 

 

I would add some surprise that your 171 Peak 78's didn't make you happy in the bumps; the first year's were still IM78's (which I own), a really quick supple ski in bumps, and after that they were softened, prolly even easier in bumps. The Steadfast has been lauded both for its lightness (a good thing in bumps) and its charging nature in variable snow (which might or might not signal more stiffness than you're gonna be happy with), but can't say from firsthand experience.

 

IMO, with your emphasis on bumps, I'd get a twin, ideally with a touch of rocker, and I'd avoid getting much beyond the low 90's in width, and the low to mid 80's might be best. Some park oriented twins with softer ends and tougher middles but directional shapes will make you happy in bumps or weird variable terrain, switch, and also serve as a nice all-mountain for softer snow. These would would include the Volkl Kink, Armada AR7, K2 Sight, Klint Prime, and if you have some $$, the Stocki Rotor 84 or the new Kastle X80/X90.  Flex plays a role here too; a soft wider will be nicer than a stiff narrower ski. 

post #6 of 20

I skied both the Lord and Twenty Twelve, I think the Twenty Twelve is a better ski for what you are asking for. Like you, I'm trying to master Mogul, so I'm still learning, but so far, I feel the Lord launches me out of the bumps (maybe the flatter tails), while Twenty Twelve settles me down for the next bump (twin tips). We all know a good skier will make any skis work, but for a learner like me, I would rather go with the Twenty Twelve.

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hey Guys,

  Thanks for all the advice.  You have made this a very hard decision.  The moment I think I have my mind made up, someone makes another good post.  I guess it is hard to buy without demo, but that is what I have to do since I only get out West once a year and dont want to pay full retail.  Lots of good deals on the bridge and twenty twelve right now, at 399.00 for the 2011/2012 version.  That is where I am standing as of now.  Does anybody know if the twenty twelve was replaced by another ski?  I don't see it on Salomon's website.

 

 Any final comments before I pull the trigger on one of these ski's?  I was also going to go with 178 in length based on the comments from SJ.  At 175 lbs and 6"2 he felt like this would work.  Thoughts??  I found some marker jester bindings at 200 dollars online also, great deal!

post #8 of 20

^^^^ Twenty twelve will be better in bumps, not as good on hardpack, although neither are hardpack skis. 178 is a good length for you. If you go too short, fore-aft balance changes in bumps will produce a yard sale. Prices are good, although not stellar for the skis; OK for the Jesters although you could do better with a Salomon or Tyrolia that is equivalent. 

post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 

Beyond,

 

 Thanks for the comments.  What Salomon or Tyrolia binding would you recommend?  Let's go ahead and assume I am going with the twently twelve ski (or the Rocker 2 92 if I get the newer version). 

post #10 of 20
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmorgan4 View Post
  Does anybody know if the twenty twelve was replaced by another ski?  I don't see it on Salomon's website.

Going by spec, I think the Rocker2 90 is probably the replacement for Twenty Twelve. I use the regular STH binding and they work fine.

post #12 of 20

Rocker2 90 won my Steals and Deals with the Volkl Kink a close second. 

post #13 of 20

Phil, Rocker 2 90 are replacement to the Lord? I don't remeber the Lord skis being full rocker. Maybe I remember wrong.

post #14 of 20

To the OP wanting to excel at the moguls. Equipment is important for the job you are intent on completing successfully.

Good you are reviewing skis designed to your goals and conditions skied. I will offer some different/additional advice.

If you have not done so, get into the gym. Not sure what to do? Hire a personal trainer or spend time researching online for exercises, programs, proper form.Most Important areas: Glutes, Hamstrings, Quads, Core. Important areas: Calves, Triceps, Anaerobic High Intensity Training. Less Important but Not to be Ignored Areas: Chest, Back, Shoulders, Cardio.

You have a very good body type to excel in the moguls (tall, thin). I was a 7 out of 10 in the moguls until I became a trainer and got into the gym. Now as a member of two ski clubs, (450 members each) one my age bracket (50's) and one younger than me (20's to 40's) there are people in both clubs that say I am the best skier in the club. Equipment is important, but your conditioning is number 1. It's fun to be in your 50's and have a hot 25 year old mogul skier tell his buddies that he got smoked by a 50 something!

post #15 of 20

Oh btw, I currently ski a 177 Salomon Lord and would have bought a 181 if they had it in stock.

Great predictable ski in moguls and trees. I am 6' 1' and 160lbs

post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 

Thanks JSLincks.  Fortunately, I am a competitive cyclist so I don't have any issues in the leg strength area.  I do strength work in the off season (Oct - March) and I generally ski first week in March so I ramp up my endurance strength work about 5 weeks before the ski trip.  Then a week at elevation skiing prior to when racing starts in mid-March, works out pretty nicely!  

 

I think the Rocker 2 92 replaced the Twenty Twelve going by specs, so I may end up with either the Rocker 2 92 or the Twenty Twelve off ebay.  I am assuming they are the exact same ski, although it worries me a little because the reviews online seem to be better for the twenty twelve, and I can not find anything stating that the Rocker 2 92 was indeed the replacement.  Maybe I should just break down and call Salomon.  But thats no fun..

post #17 of 20

Cool. So I'm sure you work your core and glutes if you are a competitive cyclist. That is what gives you superior balance in the moguls. So then it comes down to technique, which is usually not the case with most people. Most do not have the conditioning to maintain proper form.

Concentrate on keeping your upper body as STILL AS POSSIBLE in the bumps and ALWAYS seeing your hands and arms in front of you. I just flick my wrist for the pole plant timing (not actually concentrating on an accurate pole plant). Try first in an intermediate sloped mogul run to practice form. Remember, as soon as one or both arms/hands are not out front, you are doomed in the next mogul or two. The weight of your arms and hands effectively "keeps you" in the front and out of the backseat. Only other tip that may seem like common sense (but I will not assume) is to always be looking forward to the next mogul or trough (depending on how you are skiing them) in preparation for your next move. I never think about the mogul I'm on. It all happens too fast ...

Best of luck this season.

JS

post #18 of 20

Hey There- 

 

I was reading this thread and had to chime in as I did find hard video evidence (salomon rep interview one website and a 2013 lineup explanation video from a rep at a ski show) that the rocker 2 92 replaces the twenty twelve. Hope that helps! Look at the specs as well - exact same, just different graphics.

 

On a different note, I snowboarded the past 20 years and just got back into the skiing last year on a pair of used K2 Recon 167's. I want to start doing moguls, trees and a bit of park this year as I am an expert snowboarder and decent intermediate after 1st year back on skis.

 

I am 5'10 170 and missed the ebay deal on that twenty twelve 179 which probably would have been perfect! Instead,  I picked up brand new "blem" twenty twelve 171 ( i know a bit short) for $299 and free shipping. Couldn't beat it. I also bought STH 12 oversized bindings (2012) for $99. Obvioulsy, I'm looking for a deal as I am new to twin tip , rocker, etc and want to start playing in moguls and the park on skis and figured if they feel to short I'll make shorter turns and learn to ride backwards.heh.   I'll use my recons for speed and get some longer all mountain/powder fattys down the road :)

 

Does that make sense to any of you more experienced new school guys that have camber/rocker skis? I guess I wanted to chime in and also ask a question, sorry to hijack the thread.

 

Best of luck with what you go with!

post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyc View Post

Hey There- 

 

I was reading this thread and had to chime in as I did find hard video evidence (salomon rep interview one website and a 2013 lineup explanation video from a rep at a ski show) that the rocker 2 92 replaces the twenty twelve. Hope that helps! Look at the specs as well - exact same, just different graphics.

 

On a different note, I snowboarded the past 20 years and just got back into the skiing last year on a pair of used K2 Recon 167's. I want to start doing moguls, trees and a bit of park this year as I am an expert snowboarder and decent intermediate after 1st year back on skis.

 

I am 5'10 170 and missed the ebay deal on that twenty twelve 179 which probably would have been perfect! Instead,  I picked up brand new "blem" twenty twelve 171 ( i know a bit short) for $299 and free shipping. Couldn't beat it. I also bought STH 12 oversized bindings (2012) for $99. Obvioulsy, I'm looking for a deal as I am new to twin tip , rocker, etc and want to start playing in moguls and the park on skis and figured if they feel to short I'll make shorter turns and learn to ride backwards.heh.   I'll use my recons for speed and get some longer all mountain/powder fattys down the road :)

 

Does that make sense to any of you more experienced new school guys that have camber/rocker skis? I guess I wanted to chime in and also ask a question, sorry to hijack the thread.

 

Best of luck with what you go with!


LOL, you have the exact same set up as mine (5'9, 170). I skied my friend's beat up old school 167cm for a long time, and I finally upgraded to the Twenty Twelve (171). They will work well for you, but sometime I feel 177 would've been a better option (on hardpack groomers).

post #20 of 20

That's awesome - it seemed for the price to be a great way to get into a different style of ski ;) I am sure the 179 would be better on groomers and at speed, couldn't find that length for a good price though. That's great to hear it works, makes me feel a bit better. Of course on the flip side, they should be more fun to spin around and in the tress, being a bit shorter ;)

 

I did hear an interview regarding the ski last year from a rep that the contact point/length on snow when flexing is MUCH better than most people think (due to the camber) and a significant upgrade in length is not always needed. Hopefully the case!

 

Thanks for the reply!

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