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9 vs. 11.5 degree drivers

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Gonz brought up this issue in my other thread that maybe I am using too steep of a face driver in a 9 degree. I went to the range and tried a Titlist 11.5 degree driver. Right off the bat I was getting more height with it and about the same didstance in the air than my Wilson. I also found that the shaft was an inch shorter. I play with my alignment and found when I hit "flat footed" I tend to put a tail on the ball, but when I hit with my weight on the balls of my feet, I tend to come through and over the ball much better. I tried this with both clubs. With Either club, I am only getting the ball to the 225-235 yd range. Would the 11.5 be better for me? I am not sure, the question is, is it worth the $$ to switch. Also if I switch, I want to stay with the Wilsons, should I stay with the 305cc or go to the 365cc and Wilson goes every 1.5 degree, so I would be looking at a 10.5 or a 12 degree.
post #2 of 25
Phil,

Just like ski's, try as many as you can get your hands on.

My regular golf partner is a gear head. He got a new Nike 350 cc at 10 1/2 degrees. He wanted 10 degree but could not get it at the time. The club should be illegal! Boy does it power a ball out there! I can hit that club pretty well, but at nearly $400 it is out of my price range.

This past weekend, the local pro shop got some of the Nike 400cc in 10 degree. Everything the same except head size and loft.

I cannot hit that club at all. But said golf partner exchanged his 2 month old version for it in an instant. It added about 10 yards and a lower ball flight to his drives. (the guy is a solid 10 handicap, whereas I am around an 18 or 20)

I think my point is try out whatever you can find, but I would settle in at 10 to 10.5. I would not go much higher than that. Otherwise it is not a driver anylonger, it is a strong 3 wood (metal).

My driver is a 8 year or so old graphite shafted (of unknown flex) Top Flight 10.5 that cost $40.00 at the time. I get very good results from it as long as I swing smoothly. Once a round or so, I put it in play out in the 260 range.
post #3 of 25
Oh. My. God.
post #4 of 25
Every club will hit different, independent of the stated club face angle. I bought last years Adams Tight Lies titanium 305cc driver for 160 bucks canadian. Easy 300 yards when i hit it correctly. It is an 8 degree loft, but the center of gravity is very low on this driver.
post #5 of 25
clarification...

Phil, I didn't mean to say that your driver was too low-lofted. What I meant was, any sidespin will be amplified most on the flattest club in your bag. If you didn't use a driver or 2W, and instead did all driving with a 3W, then the 3W would be your club that would most reveal a swing flaw.

Now, with that said...

if your swing is optimized for your body, and yet you still cannot get much upward travel on your drives, then a 9deg driver would be madness.

But it's not only the loft, it's also the club design relative to your body.

I can drive 270 on average, and have hit up to 325 (with roll on baked fairway) with an 11deg old-school Titleist Tour Model Persimmon driver. I get perhaps too much loft on the ball because I have a fairly upright swing. But I don't really think that switching to 10.5, 10, 9.5 or 9 deg of loft would make me hit it farther. Rather, I would hit it flatter, and my sidespin would be more amplified when I hit it poorer.

What I was saying, Phil, was that even if by training your swing with a 5 iron you seem to have straightened a slice into a fade, or a hook into a draw, you need to check your swing against the flattest club in your bag. Minute swing problems are most amplified there. But they're so amplified that range practice with only a driver can get awfully frustrating.
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by gonzostrike:
clarification...

Phil, I didn't mean to say that your driver was too low-lofted. What I meant was, any sidespin will be amplified most on the flattest club in your bag. If you didn't use a driver or 2W, and instead did all driving with a 3W, then the 3W would be your club that would most reveal a swing flaw.

Now, with that said...

if your swing is optimized for your body, and yet you still cannot get much upward travel on your drives, then a 9deg driver would be madness.

But it's not only the loft, it's also the club design relative to your body.

I can drive 270 on average, and have hit up to 325 (with roll on baked fairway) with an 11deg old-school Titleist Tour Model Persimmon driver. I get perhaps too much loft on the ball because I have a fairly upright swing. But I don't really think that switching to 10.5, 10, 9.5 or 9 deg of loft would make me hit it farther. Rather, I would hit it flatter, and my sidespin would be more amplified when I hit it poorer.

What I was saying, Phil, was that even if by training your swing with a 5 iron you seem to have straightened a slice into a fade, or a hook into a draw, you need to check your swing against the flattest club in your bag. Minute swing problems are most amplified there. But they're so amplified that range practice with only a driver can get awfully frustrating.
I wasn't questioning you, its just that you brought up a valid point, and I thank you for it. I need to work with what I got, and I need to add a 3 wood to the arsinal.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well I am bighting the bullit. I ordered a 10.5 deg. Wilson Fat Shaft 365cc. I will keep you posted on how it is. Any takers for my 9 deg?
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by Phil Pugliese:
Well I am bighting the bullit. I ordered a 10.5 deg. Wilson Fat Shaft 365cc. I will keep you posted on how it is. Any takers for my 9 deg?
what is the 9deg? how much?
post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
check your mail.
post #10 of 25
Thanks Phil. I'll talk to my brother and get back to you. He lives in MD, he's not that far from you.
post #11 of 25
Two thoughts to keep in mind:

1) Distance is influenced more by clubhead speed than the degree of loft in a driver. Also, the flatter the face the more side spin imparted at impact.

2) All things being equal, the angle of attack (steepness of swing) will determine how high you hit the ball.

Interestingly, a number of tour pros have switched to a driver with a bit more loft. This is probably a testament to modern technology and materials (both in clubs and balls) providing the distance they need.

Our shop has had a number of Nike drivers and we have yet to sell one. When I hit the demo it performed well but had a "hard" feel and a "thunky" sound. We also have a number of other drivers and I wound up with a 10 degree Ping titanium. SWEET!!!

If anything, get the driver that helps you put it on the short grass. A lot of long drivers die in the rough. Length is overrated-at least in golf.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
My main concern is to reduce the side spin. Thats why I am going to a 10.5 from the 9.
post #13 of 25
Interesting. I use a Titelist 8.5 deg 975D with the Grafalloy shaft. Love the feel, Looks good over the ball and this stick is long. But as S&G says, the angle of attack is also a factor.
This makes sense, in my case. When I am hitting this club right, It stays under the treeline. I have always had a tendency to hit down on the ball, I know, not good with the Driver, but it seems to wok for me. With a higher loft, I'm much higher than I need to be...
When I really need to be in the short grass, ie. playing a big $$ match, ; ) , The 2 iron is my club. Automatic 230.
So Phil when are we gonna play?

Ski & Golf, are you a bump coach or a patroller in the winter? My Dad plays your course a few times a week, trying to fuigure out who you are!!
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Exit 154:

So Phil when are we gonna play?

I am booked through the end of the month with trips and such. Any Friday in September looks fine. Pick someplace in South Jersey.
post #15 of 25
Phil, you may wish to demo strong 3 woods for a couple of reasons. Their shallower faces will definitely decrease effective side spin and their slightly shorter shafts will increase accuracy. They hit the ball as far as most drivers did 12 years ago and studies have shown that if your drives go about 220-230yd anyway you will not lose significant distance switching to a 3 wood. Demo a bunch of different stuff and see how it performs in real life on the course. Myself, 45 in. shafts work ok on the range but on the course they tend to spray if my timing changes just a bit. I agree with the others that distance is overated. Good luck and enjoy the search, it's half the fun! skidoc [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #16 of 25
I agree with skidoc. I have hit some incredibly long drives with my Taylor Made Burner Bubble 3-wood... how does 255 yds sound?

[edited to correct skidoc's handle]

[ July 30, 2002, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: gonzostrike ]
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
I played with a strong 3, a Callaway with grafalloy shaft, didn't like it one bit. Thanks for the shot though.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well, as I posted before, I was to go with the Wilson Deep Red 10.5 degree 365cc driver. I ordered it from ebay. Package comes today. Wilson Deep Red 10.5 425cc! It was an honest goof in shipping, everything said 365, but it was a 425. I called and he said to send it back and he will give me a half dozen Pro V1's or keep the club. I believe in fate, I think I was sent the 425 for a reason, so I am gonna keep it. I hope I am doin the right thing.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well, I hit it at the range this afternoon. I like it. Biiiiiig sweet spot, I did have trouble mis hitting it, I am sure that will change tomorrow, I am playing a long, tight private course . I will keep you posted on my progress.
post #20 of 25
Why why why are you insisting on hitting a driver. The scariest and worst club in your bag in my opinion especially if you are a fairly high handicapper. The club (as has been said) just exaggerates your flaws. Try hitting your 3 wood for a whole round and see how it works. You may lose a little distance but you should get the ball on the fairway much more often and it has got to be easier hitting at the green off a tight lie than out of thick rough.
Just my tuppence worth! If you hadn't guessed I have never carried a driver and don't intend to start now!
post #21 of 25
Loke,
I agree with you. While I do carry a driver, I won't take it out until at least after the first 6 or 7 holes, and if possible not until I'm on the back nine. I agree, hit a good 3 wood, it's a lot more versatile and forgiving.
Probably if I went through my bag, I really only use 3 & 5 wood, 1,3,5,7,9 & PW.

Favourite club is my 7 iron. I guess that comes from playing exposed links courses, where I had to chip & run near the green to reduce the wind effect.

S
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well I like it. I only hit one out of bounds, and that was when I didn't turn my hands over. I did hit one of my longest drives I ever hit, about 260, so I am happy in that sence. I will keep you posted.
post #23 of 25
Loft is only one factor in selecting a driver. The shaft will have as much impact as anything on the LAUNCH ANGLE and eventual distance. A shaft with a low kickpoint tends to hit a higher shot and vice versa.

I am acquainted with Tee McCabe who is a lead designer for Titleist. I played mini tour golf for a while and got to spend some time at the True Temper shaft lab in Memphis as well as fool around in the Titlesit science van. Tee designed most of the recent Titleist clubheads. He is the one who helped me understand the rudimentary physics involved.

What you should seek is a high launch angle with little spin. That's the ideal. Guys like Woods and Love launch at 11 degrees. Keep in mind this has very little to do with their driver loft. They may well be using six degree club faces.

The "perfect" launch angle?

Believe it or not it's very simple. It's 45 degrees.
post #24 of 25
Hang on you sound like you know what you are talking about - that is remarkably rare around here.
Oh sorry wrong forum that should have been in the randomn humour forum - had a bit of a bad weekend (in that it ended) so needed to take some sarcasm out on someone!

Sounds like good advice to me but I think with my swing (if it can be categorised as that), my golf course and my bank balance (again a potential mis-naming) that I should stick with my 3 wood.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by Phil Pugliese:
Gonz brought up this issue in my other thread that maybe I am using too steep of a face driver in a 9 degree. I went to the range and tried a Titlist 11.5 degree driver. Right off the bat I was getting more height with it and about the same didstance in the air than my Wilson. I also found that the shaft was an inch shorter.
If you are getting the same distance with the higher loft AND a shorter shaft go with it...you will be MUCHO more consistent.

Quote:
Originally posted by Phil Pugliese:

Also if I switch, I want to stay with the Wilsons, should I stay with the 305cc or go to the 365cc and Wilson goes every 1.5 degree, so I would be looking at a 10.5 or a 12 degree.
Head size is more of a personal preference kind of thing for the avg. golfer.

You may want to try out the Ping TEC driver in either the 8.5 or 10 (for some goofy complex Ping reasons these "degrees" are each stated about 1.5 degrees softer than they really are, ie 8.5 = 10 and 10 = 11.5 . I've tried every driver out on the market this summer (and that's a LOT of 'em) and these were by far the best. More forgiveness and w-a-a-ay more distance.

Then again, if we are ever to play for bucks just keep your present set up ;o)
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