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Din Setting

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I leave next week for a six day trip to Lake Tahoe. Not only am I jazzed about skiing Heavenly for the first time (I usually ski Utah and Colorado) but I'm also pretty excited to take my new Bandit X's out for a spin.

However, I am curious about the din setting. When the ski shop asked what level skier I was, my level didn't coorilate with their chart. I'm not quit a III, on the chart, but I ski better than a II.

I'm 6ft and weigh about 195 lbs. I mostly ski the groomed blue and black runs (80%) moguls, bowls and powder (20%). I would catagorize myself as an intermediate to advanced skier.

The shop set the din setting at 6 1/2 on a scale of 1 - 12 (Soloman 912 ps).

Does anyone have an opinion on this subject. I think the setting could be a little low.

Paul [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #2 of 26
3 Questions:
Will you be taking lessons?
Have you skied on carvers before?
Does the shop know you & your skiing ability well?

OK, here's my take on it:

If you're taking lessons and you come out too often, ask the instructor what they think - perhaps it could be your technique that needs adjusted rather than the bindings!

If you're not taking lessons, and you come out frequently when you weren't expecting to, then take them to a shop and get them turned up.

If you haven't skied on carvers before, take lessons, there is a different technique to skiing on straights.

And finally, unless you've been trained, and know what you're doing, don't even think about adjusting them yourself!
(I'll leave the explanation of this to the legal experts on the forum)

post #3 of 26
we're the same size, seemingly very similar skiing style/ability. i am by no means a pro in this area - so please, a grain of salt - but after trial and error, my bindings (same as yours) are set at 8. they're pretty easily adjustable BUT i'd follow the advice above and let the shop do it if you have any doubts. enjoy tahoe. heavenly's fun.
post #4 of 26
Nice sig Fox Hat

OK my take on DIN: if you can come out of the bindings by leaning forward - you may want to up your setting; if you can click out of the binding just by twisting your foot - you may want to up your setting.

I'm 6 ft or so tall and weigh about 190 lbs. and I ski with DIN set at 12 and bring it up to 14 when I race, but I would not recommend using the same settings :

Just use the shop settings - safest thing to do

post #5 of 26
You need to include your boot size ( in cm's) for one to be able to say if that is a correct setting.
post #6 of 26
Read the info chart it says--if you are not leval I and not leval III ,you are leval II---(one binding maker came out with a chart with 1/2 ie,II 1/2)get it set at the shop and if you have premature release take to shop at the base of the mt. and have them adjust it . the majority of the time if you are not a full blown leval III a leval II will work fine--also the skiing leval is only one of 5 variables used to establish your setting and there is a lot of overlap in torque between settings.
post #7 of 26
If you pre-release, adjust them 1/2 or a full DIN until you stop pre-releasing. All it takes is a screw driver and the ability to read numbers. Legal concerns? Bah! There are none. Just go ski!
post #8 of 26
I always get a bit frightened when I hear people scoff at legalities. Just crank 'em up and ski. Might as well go back to the bear claw bindings. Yes, it is dangerous to have a release when you're heading for a tree. It's just as bad the other way around too.
These tend to be the people who get their skis mounted, then crank the DINs up all the way because this means they are a good skier! Then when they break a leg or something, they run it back down to where the DIN was set at the shop and try to take the shop to court for setting the DINs wrong. Or they just leave them all the way up and try to claim the shop set them that way.
The proper DIN setting is there for a purpose. Use it. If you believe you are between a II and a III, go II. Ski hard and see how they do. If they are doing a partial release (which bindings do often)and they aren't returning quickly enough to dead center then turn them up a bit somewhere inbetween II and III.
When I have a question about how or why someone chose III I try to speak with them about it. Legally I cannot choose for them. They have to do it themselves. We discuss it. I listen to the customer. Often they are very agressive but aren't sure about II and III. If they choose III I will write on the work order the II setting for them if they choose to drop it back down a bit or somewhere in between. Or I'll set them to II and give them the III setting so they know their range. This gives the customer a choice and a safe range to choose from.
Many people wrongly think that I = beginner, II = intermediate, III = advanced. This is not right! it has more to do with HOW one skis. I can ski III but I find most of my skiing is II. So I set according to II but just a tad above. If I were patrolling and taking someone down on a tobbagan, I'd run them up to III because there is a lot of pressure on the bindings in doing that. so, it's HOW you ski and what you are doing. Racing, or very agressive, or jumping, or doing moguls the size of VW's... go III. Being an intermediate and calling yourself very agressive doesn't cut it.
Someone mentioned here about the boot sole length. Absolutely right. Plus, height, weight, age, and skier I, II, or III. It's NOT just weight! On the chart, there is a weight cell and height cell. if they are not level, you use the one closer to the top of the chart. If a guy is 5'10" & 220# you go by his height, not the weight.
Here's some clues us ski techs see... A guy comes in with rear entry boots, just bought an intermediate ski, and some Marker M3.1's or salomon 610's, and he marks down III ski!!! WRONG! Or, you see on the work order a 5'2" girl, 10 yrs old, 110#, and it's marked as III ski!!! WRONG! Her mother marked that for her because she's a real good skier... in the mother's eyes. I spoke with the father about this. He agreed with me and thanked me for catching this. I set his to III because he patrols and does tobbagan!
I never argue with the customer. I point out the above if I feel there was an error. The customer makes his or her choice and that's that. but never just crank them up because you don't want them to come off. If you need to, fine, but be sensible about it.
post #9 of 26
Really don't mean to turn this into a "thing," but cautiously and sensibly increasing DIN by 1/2 until no pre-release is not the same as "cranking them up all the way." Don't get me wrong, I'm very loyal to my fav ski shop and ski pro, but we're adults and don't have to turn to them for everyting.
post #10 of 26
I have found one of the best ways to get round the problem is - don't show them the chart!
Ask what they ski, height & weight, then go from there.
This way, there's no issue of macchismo.

post #11 of 26
A couple of seasons ago I had a lot of pre-releases with bindings set for level III, so I increased the setting by 1 1/2 DIN. This season I read here about being smooth on skis and therefore needing less DIN and left them where shop set it when I brought the skis for annual test. After 4 days in Utah and 2 at home has not had a problem yet.

post #12 of 26
I'm with VK - I skied the same DIN's (12/14) for years when I weighed 165, am 6'1", but I have a short boot sole. I now weigh 190, and just bought my new freeskiing skis with Salomon Race Stock 9-16 Din bindings, and set them to 13. There was one point this weekend where I know I would have released when I didn't want to if the Din was any lower. They recommend a 8-8.5 Din for me on level 3.

IMHO, as long as you are strong, young and in good shape, your DIN can be set to level 3 regardless of your (in)ablity - it's very conservative.

post #13 of 26
Hermit- No slam on you. It's just some people think they know more than the chart. Yes, increasing by 1/2 or 1 is a good way to go. I believe the chart may be a bit conservative but not overly so. Each number increases the release tremendously. M or N skier the forward release is around 320 ft. pounds! That's getting up to the torque range of head torque of some diesel engines!
Backing off on the forward pressure may take the edge off some of this, especially with bindings which tend to be on the tight side during a bench test. What do you think? I've found Markers to release a bit high.
post #14 of 26
Just a reminder:

DIN is not the only thing that is responsible for releasing a boot from a binding.
You always have to make sure that the forward pressure spiring is set right. Also some binding models have a rather soft forward pressure spring which makes them prone to prereleasing: I would prerelease from Atomic 614 set at DIN 12 on every other rut, but I can ski/race on race stock Atomic 1018 set at DIN 12 just fine (it takes some effort to click into them though )
It is not uncommon that people would keep cranking their DIN setting up to keep them from prereleasing when the actual cause is incorrect forward pressure setting or improper binding model.
When selecting a binding good practice is to have your DIN setting in hte lower half of the available scale, however people are prone to selecting a lower end binding (with a lower DIN range) just to save a few $.


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 21, 2002 07:41 AM: Message edited 1 time, by VK ]</font>
post #15 of 26
My 14 year old daughter and I swap skis on a regular basis. I don't change the DIN setting from what she skis to my listed DIN setting and I do not pre-release. Her Din settings are 6 to 6.5 and I am 5'9" and 200lbs. Its all in technique and the way you ski. If you shove the tails of the skis around you will need higher DIN settings to stay in the skis.
One of the things that VK has failed to point out is that speed has a lot to do with release and pre-release. A 12 DIN setting on a high speed rutted race course will probably release fine in a high speed fall but the same DIN setting when skiing in heavy wet snow at slow speeds is a recipe for disaster. I don't ski all that fast. If it did, I would set my DIN back to normal.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 21, 2002 08:08 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Pierre eh! ]</font>
post #16 of 26
This is a bit off the subject, but I thought you guys might enjoy this, some.

A customer returned a few weeks ago saying his bindings wouldn't release. He took them into the shop at the hill and had them backed off. They still didn't release. He did this again, and again they backed them off "all the way down", and still they wouldn't release! We changed the bindings and the skis for him at no charge.
A few days later, when I had the time, I put the skis on the bench, grabbed the proper size boot for that mount and tested them. Sure enough, the test was sky high! I looked at the settings... they were cranked all the way UP!
These were Salomon C610's or C509's, can't remember which right now, but some bindings run their DIN numbers in reverse.
So... I retested at three different DIN settings, each lower than the other. Each time the torque settings dropped properly. The bindings were ok. We got screwed, The customer didn't know what he was doing, neither did the tech on the mountain, or perhaps he was in a hurry and didn't look at the numbers on the bindings.
Anyone have good war stories like this?
post #17 of 26

I'm 5'10", 160 lbs, Type III skier and my DIN setting is 7. 6.5 sounds a little low to me, but I haven't used a DIN chart for a number of years. As several folks already mentioned, the factors affecting release are:

- DIN setting
- forward pressure
- boot sole length
- condition of your AFD (anti-friction device on toe binding)
- boot sole condition
- toe height adjustment

I would be more concerned about the binding's settings if you are having problems with either non-release or pre-release. As Pierre Eh! said, and as Ott Gangl has said in other posts, if your skiing technique is relatively smooth, it doesn't matter how strong or aggressive you are, you will see fewer pre-releases. I've never had a pre-release in my life. I have historically skied with my DIN set for a Type II skier, but this season my knees & leg muscles are stronger, and I am using the Type III setting. I've releaed in a few falls this year, and each of them was an appropriate release without any feelings of strain or stress on the releasing leg.
post #18 of 26
Probably the number 1 reason for pre-release is not getting all the snow/ice off the bottom of your boots.
post #19 of 26
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonzostrike:

- DIN setting
- forward pressure
- boot sole length
- condition of your AFD (anti-friction device on toe binding)
- boot sole condition
- toe height adjustment

Does the lenght or type of ski make a difference to the DIN setting? Would the same skier (height, weight, boots, etc) have a different DIN skiing a pair of 188 Bandit XXX vs. a 150 T-Power 9S?
post #20 of 26
Tag -

unless the DIN chart has changed radically, ski length has nothing to do with it.

I would agree with the idea that short hypercarvers can create more torque if used by a skilled skier, but they don't affect the skier's ability, aggressiveness, weight, etc.
post #21 of 26
Look, just ski on the 6.5 setting. If you start popping out, how hard is it, really, to adjust up in small increments like Hermit said?
post #22 of 26
Nakona- Bingo!
Gonzo- I like your pachoulli sig!
post #23 of 26
Ski shop Shmi Shmop

Take their 6.5 and add at least 1 to get over their safety net, then start tinkering as and when required if you are pre-jacking all over the place.
post #24 of 26
Cranking the DIN up is certainly NOT a safety net. Especially for an intermediate skier skiing blue and black groomers.

I'm 6'2" between 190 and 200lbs, very aggressive, somewhat expert level skier.

I used to keep my DINs around 11-12. It doesn't keep you from pre-releasing, it only makes you much more likely to get hurt in a bizzarre fall.

I can rip through bumps, steep crud, high speed arcs on the groomer, etc, with my DINs at 8.5 on the toes and 9.0 on the heels without a problem.

I also have a pair of 150cm skis, and have skied them in the bumps and on groomers at a 5 DIN (where we set them for my wife), and I have never pre released. As a matter of fact, I was on those skis, with the DINs on 5 when I blew out my ACL.

I recommend you keep them where the shop set them until (when and if) you find yourself walking out of them a lot (not just once, and in tough conditions). If you do start walking out of them, take notice of whether you are stepping out of the heels or twisting out of the toes, and only turn up those DINs 1/2 number at a time.

Remember, they are meant to release when you need to, not to hold you to the ski no matter what.

FYI, as soon as you touch those DIN adjustment screws, the shop is off the hook for anything.
post #25 of 26
what JohnH said.

good to see you posting regularly again, John. I'm still looking for a spot out here for ya! Hope you get to Fernie for the Bears Gathering.
post #26 of 26
JohnH: I am about 1.87cm, 88kg, ski very aggressively and very quickly (very similar stats to you). I have my bindings on 12. If I had them on 8.5 I would be losing skis all over the place. I find it hard to believe at your weight you can ski on 8.5 in bumps, crud etc etc at the level of aggression and expertise you state and not release often. Are you an elf?

Most knee injuries is that they happen in slow speed, twisting falls. They will always happen, because bindings can never meet all scenarios. There is also a lot of evidence to suggest that modern ski design (rather than bindings being set too high)has increased the rate of knee injuries as there is substantially more lateral movement with deeper sidecuts.

And you have to agree, that in the US and Canada at least, with the litigious culture that exists there, binding manufacturers and retailers would take significant commercial risk NOT to understate the DIN setting recommendations.

Last time I had a pair of bindings mounted, the guy went through the routine on DIN and recommended a 7.
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