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canting effect on skiing (video)

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

Dear Boot Guys


Last year I went to the closest recommended boot fitter to us in eastern Canada (shop near Sugarloaf Me.).  I needed new boots and after a thorough examination and discussion, Daleboots were recommended for me.  Had them made and was VERY happy...snug when loosely buckled and no pain.  At the fit app't, the replaceable cants chosen were 3 deg (wide part to the outside) for right boot and flat for left.  I have posted a link to a video of me skiing (not sure how to upload) and would really appreciate feedback on the canting. I can do 0, 1.5 and 3 degrees, tilted either medially or laterally.  It seems to me that my skis want to travel on a divergent path, and I'm wondering if my feet have settled into the boots and different cants are needed.  Not sure when I can get back there, but they will send some to me by mail if necessary.  I'm not a very good skier yet but hoping to improve this year.


PS.  I am a bit "knock kneed"


Thank You!



post #2 of 7

Unfortunately at that camera angle it is difficult to assess the lateral canting but it looks ball park good as does your fore/aft alignment.  Does it feel symmetrical to you? Can you access the inside and outside edges equally?


When you get a chance, perhaps have a higher level instructor or ski coach take a look at your skiing for feedback.


Good luck and congratulations on taking the right path to better skiing performance!  You will progress much faster with properly aligned boots!

post #3 of 7
Hi Jeffrey--welcome to EpicSki! Thanks for posting the video and taking advantage of a great opportunity for some honest feedback and coaching.

Unfortunately, as Bud has said, POV cameras are not usually ideal for this purpose. Particularly when assessing alignment, we're looking for symmetry or asymmetry from side to side, and that's hard to see from your footage.

However, from what you've described ("It seems to me that my skis want to travel on a divergent path"), and from what we can see in the video, I would suspect that your right ski, at least, may well need another look. 3 degrees is a lot of cant, and presumably intended to correct for some extreme over-edging (thick side to the outside). But it looks like it may be keeping your right ski from getting sufficient edge angle in left turns, which would cause it to carve a larger (longer radius) turn than you want it to carve. That would explain the divergence, as you guide your inside ski in the intended turn shape (a real strength in your skiing, by the way).

It's possible. But really, it is very hard to say from your video. If you have a friend who could carry your camera, either stationary or following behind or skiing in front of you, it would produce much more useful video for our purposes.

Have your boots looked at again. A good bootfitter will keep at it until the fit and setup are just right, and I'm sure they want those Daleboots to work for you. Then get some more footage this season and give us another look.

Snow is coming!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #4 of 7
Going further.... Jeffrey, I just looked at the other YouTube video you posted in 2010 at Poley Mountain, Massachusetts. It's also a POV video--helmet cam, I presume--and you cannot see much of your movements at all. I assume that it was shot before the new Daleboots? In any case, I do not see a glaring asymmetry that would justify such a discrepancy in your right and left canting (-3 degrees right, zero left).

I DO see--and it shows in your other video as well--a pronounced "stepping" movement, also known as a "pushoff," that begins your turns. And in both videos, you can see that your upper body also rotates first into each turn, before your skis turn. These movements cause your skis to skid into the turns as the rotation and step twists your outside tail out. It's a common movement pattern, and an error if your intent is to carve your turns smoothly. It can be caused by many things, but one of them is "overedging"--a boot alignment problem that is commonly addressed by canting with the thick side out, as you say was done on your right boot. (Over-edging makes it difficult to release the edge of your downhill/new inside ski as you initiate your turn, but encourages stepping uphill and away from that engaged edge.) Even when the canting issue is corrected, the movement habit will remain until you address it specifically.

Again, this is about 90% speculation, based on your description and on the very limited video that we have. It may be all wrong. But I am still curious about the massive discrepancy in the canting between your two boots. I wonder if there might be other issues at play--leg length discrepancy, for example. I would love to see more video from more advantageous camera angles. And I think it would be money well spent to find a good instructor to assess your skiing live, as well as another visit to your bootfitter.

Best regards,

PS--one quick question: When you say that your skis seem to "diverge," does that happen when you are in a straight run--as on a cat track, or gliding along the flats at the bottom of the mountain? One sign of being underedged (which would be the case if you have too much cant with the thick side out) is skis tending to want to drift wider when you glide on the flats. As your track widens, the skis, which might have been riding their outside edges, become flatter on the snow until they find a place where they can glide flat and straight. If that's what you feel, it further confirms my gut feeling that you have too much negative cant on your right boot, at least....
post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 

Thanks very much guys! I really appreciate the feed back.  Bob...you have a good eye. The other video was before the Daleboots, and yes, I do have a 5-6mm leg length discrepancy (left leg is the short one-learned this from a bike fitting and my left cleat is shimmed).  Actually, the boots I was wearing in the other video had a 2 or 3mm (not sure which) plate screwed on the left sole (by a boot fitter that used to have a satellite shop at Sunday River), but no canting correction. I remember it took some getting used to, but once I did, I liked it.  I don't think the Daleboots allow for this with their replaceable soles, but I still find them an improvement over the old boots which never seemed to fit my foot right.  As far as coasting on the flats, I don't recall the right ski travelling outward too much (maybe even inward a bit), but i'm sure this is probably due a least in part to me consciously trying to make the skis run straight when coasting.  If I can find it, I will post a POV video shot the same day as the pole mount view, that shows the skis really well.  I shot these videos so I could have something to stare at while I dream about the snow starting to fall!



post #6 of 7

One unfortunate limitation on the Daleboots is the cantable soles are in very large increments.  1.5 degree increments are way too big as little as a 1/2 degree is very noticeable on firm snow and you likely fall in that in between area.  


Also as Bob suggested having the leg length compensated for is important as well  This should be done before the canting is assessed and adjusted.  In general we make up 1/2 the actual discrepancy.  I look primarily for level hips.  If you can not plate and router the boot soles it can be done between the bindings and skis with the caveat that you do not have system bindings and you don't mind having a designated right and left ski.


I also agree with Bob, I like what I see in your skiing movements because you have some good mechanics to build on without having to do much in the way of  remedial corrections.  YOU HAVE GREAT POTENTIAL!

post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 

Hi Guys


Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but wanted to update.  This season I decided to take heed of the advice that the discrepancy between left and right cants was too big, and tried using equal cants (1.5 degrees thick side to the outside) on each boot, and it made a big difference, with my skis staying more parallel.  Recently, I decided to try neutral soles on each boot, and actually felt like I was skiing much better (snappier turns). Here is my dilemma:  I was at Sugarloaf last week, and halfway through the day, my right leg (which is my longer one by about 6-7mm) felt like shredded meat after i finished each run.  Left one was slightly tired, but nothing like the right one.  Made me wish the chairlift would slow down..


Is it possible that by "raising" the inside of the sole to neutral provided too much angle for that leg, or is it more likely due to the LLD?


My goal is to see a pro boot fitter before the start of next season (may have a trip to Calgary in the fall and hope to see Lou), and I suspect I'll need to start from scratch.




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