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For those who thought that artificial snow is cr&p...

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

now we have a proof.  According to the NY Times it is literally cr&p.    

 

In all fairness the brouhaha over using the sewage water for snowmaking is mostly local politics and fear mongering.  Treated sewage water is actually quite clean and most certainly better than some bottled "spring" waters that come from polluted aquifers and are legally required to be tested only once a month.  But of course the yuck factor of the "toilet to tap" is irresistible.

post #2 of 21

Wow fiction becomes a reality.

 

Anyone read the book Snow Waste.  Great book. The author did a lot of research and got a lot of things accurate. 

 

post #3 of 21
I saw that Times article yesterday too. Does anyone know if there are other mountains that use treated waste water for snowmaking, or is this the first? It seems to be a great idea, particularly in the more arid parts of the country, but the location of the Indian sacred site in this case is troubling.

On a related note, if anyone knows any good articles or other work on the environmental impacts of the ski industry, or the effects of the changing environment on the industry, please let me know. I will take a look at the book listed above.

Thanks.
post #4 of 21

The Native Americans in Arizona had a big beef with the ski resorts there that are located over ancient burial grounds over this very issue.  They seem to believe that dumping snow filled with human excrement on the grounds where their ancestors are buried is disrespectful.

post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

now we have a proof.  According to the NY Times it is literally cr&p.    

 

  Treated sewage water is actually quite clean and most certainly better than some bottled "spring" waters that come from polluted aquifers and are legally required to be tested only once a month. 

 

Or it would be if people's birth control pills and antiseptic cleaners didn't wind up being flushed down the drain.     As it is, not so much. 


Edited by cantunamunch - 9/27/12 at 6:22am
post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADKS View Post

I saw that Times article yesterday too. Does anyone know if there are other mountains that use treated waste water for snowmaking, or is this the first?

 

Not the first, there have been attempts in the NE.

post #7 of 21

There is also the matter of road salt that ends up in the collection pools at the base of the mountain.  I suspect that is why ski edges seem to sometimes already have rust forming on the edges before you can even get them out of the ski box after a trip.

post #8 of 21

Snowbowl is my home mountain and I bought a pass this year due to the snow making system now being in place.  I don't care if the snow has diarrhea in it, I will still ski it.  This is the desert, we have to take what we can get.  That aside, the Navajos will find a new reason to sue the ski area like protecting endangered blue bellied warblers or some lame crap.  They don't care that this will be a great thing for the economy in Flagstaff, it doesn't benefit them in any shape or form. 

 

http://www.arizonasnowbowl.com/pdf/snowmaking_coverage.pdf 

post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by core2 View Post

Snowbowl is my home mountain and I bought a pass this year due to the snow making system now being in place.  I don't care if the snow has diarrhea in it, I will still ski it.  This is the desert, we have to take what we can get.  That aside, the Navajos will find a new reason to sue the ski area like protecting endangered blue bellied warblers or some lame crap.  They don't care that this will be a great thing for the economy in Flagstaff, it doesn't benefit them in any shape or form. 

 

http://www.arizonasnowbowl.com/pdf/snowmaking_coverage.pdf 


I'm sure if they were allowed to build a casino there attitudes would be different.

post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

Or it would be if people's birth control pills and antiseptic cleaners didn't wind up being flushed down the drain.     As it is, not so much. 

rolleyes.gif... You never heard of the practice called "groundwater recharge"?  Treated sewage effluent is piped back into aquifer and there it magically becomes this "pristine" clean water just by virtue of passing through a pipe in and out of the ground?  

 

For the geeks here, the only official "toilet-to-tap" drinking water is the NEWater from Singapore, which I believe goes through an additional reverse osmosis purification stage that is key to potability.  Unfortunately, pharmaceuticals do pass through those membranes, so I am not sure that this water is any better in that respect.

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by core2 View PostI don't care if the snow has diarrhea in it, I will still ski it.

 

I think you may have a signature for your profile.  smile.gif

post #12 of 21

Don't tell me.    Tell the tribe that they're already pumping it all into their groundwater anyway.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

rolleyes.gif... You never heard of the practice called "groundwater recharge"?  Treated sewage effluent is piped back into aquifer and there it magically becomes this "pristine" clean water just by virtue of passing through a pipe in and out of the ground? 

post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by core2 View Post

I don't care if the snow has diarrhea in it, I will still ski it. 

So ummm, what kinda wax do ya use fer dat eh?

post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

So ummm, what kinda wax do ya use fer dat eh?

 

With poo water snow, it is self lubricating.  You don't need to wax.

post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by core2 View Post

 

With poo water snow, it is self lubricating.  You don't need to wax.


Sounds like you would be good to have around the ski resort front office for marketing ideas.  If you can sell crxp, then you can sell anything. 

post #16 of 21
Finally found a use for graphite wax...poo snow.
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

The Native Americans in Arizona had a big beef with the ski resorts there that are located over ancient burial grounds over this very issue.  They seem to believe that dumping snow filled with human excrement on the grounds where their ancestors are buried is disrespectful.

I thought that the Native Americans owned the ski resorts in AZ.  (Pretty sure they own Sunrise, at least.)

post #18 of 21

My question is, how does this differ from what is currently used to make artificial snow? The wastewater is treated to have the impurities removed, so it's relatively clean. On the other hand, traditional snowmaking operations use retaining ponds at the base of the mountain to hold the water they will use to make snow. Those ponds are typically filled from natural waterways. Those natural waterways have fish, frogs, and other stuff in them. The ponds themselves are lovely habitats for ducks, geese, beaver, etc. Know what all those animals have in common? They all poop. The snowmakers pump the water out of those poop filled ponds, run them through a basic particulate filter (so the sticks and leaves don't clog the gun nozzles), and pump that right out of the guns onto the slopes. Poop is poop. When my students eat the snow, I remind them that the snow is made from poopy water, and they usually stop pretty quick.

 

It seems like people are more upset about the idea of this operation, rather than the actual quality of the water being used.

post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssssnake529 View Post

I thought that the Native Americans owned the ski resorts in AZ.  (Pretty sure they own Sunrise, at least.)


White Mountain Apaches own Sunrise.  The have a casino, nuff said.  The Navajos don't own AZ Snowbowl but they hate the place because the mountain is sacred.  The snow making battle has just been a couple lawsuits in a string of lawsuits that have been going on for many years now.

post #20 of 21

I am sure Killington did do this in the late 80's or early 90's, there was a saying "where the affluent meets the effluent "

post #21 of 21

This thread confirms my preconceptions. 

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