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Bindings on or off in hot box?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

When you hot box your skis, do you have to take the bindings off or can you leave them on?  Could exposing the bindings to the 50 deg C temperature might cause any internal lubricant to melt and drip off, leading to problems later?  If you do have to take the bindings off, can you just put them back on afterwards and use them, or should you get them re-calibrated/adjusted?

post #2 of 11

I would, simply because I'd be concerned that the grease would liquify and run out of them.  However, serious folks replace everything every season so it probably wouldn't matter to them as much as the poor schlep that bought their used gear.  I suppose one could try to squirt more lithium grease in to the bindings.  I've done that with gear that I knew had been sitting in non climate controlled storage for a long time.

 

On the other hand, constantly removing and replacing the bindings in the same set of holes is also not so great.  If they're on a plate you're probably OK for the most part.  But if flat or on risers you need to be sure there is good glue/sealant in the holes with the screws each time you put them back in.  And, you'll need to be careful not to strip them.  Each time you remove and replace a screw in the same hole you degrade the integrity of the hold of that screw to some degree regardless of what kind of hole or nut you are using.

post #3 of 11
You normally leave the bindings on unless you are doing the first prep on a new pair
post #4 of 11

Take 'em off, is what I heard, for this reason. I have all Atomic bindings, and it's pretty easy to take them off and put them back on after hotboxing....

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

I would, simply because I'd be concerned that the grease would liquify and run out of them.  However, serious folks replace everything every season so it probably wouldn't matter to them as much as the poor schlep that bought their used gear.  I suppose one could try to squirt more lithium grease in to the bindings.  I've done that with gear that I knew had been sitting in non climate controlled storage for a long time.

 

On the other hand, constantly removing and replacing the bindings in the same set of holes is also not so great.  If they're on a plate you're probably OK for the most part.  But if flat or on risers you need to be sure there is good glue/sealant in the holes with the screws each time you put them back in.  And, you'll need to be careful not to strip them.  Each time you remove and replace a screw in the same hole you degrade the integrity of the hold of that screw to some degree regardless of what kind of hole or nut you are using.

post #5 of 11

More old wives tales here rolleyes.gif.

 

I've done lots of hotbox testing up to 170F/76C & even at that temperature the binding grease does NOT go soft/run out. And I've cooked bindings from all the major manufacturers & they all perform the same.

 

And once fully cooled the binding screws are still fully tight.

 

I've hotbox about a dozen pairs of customers skis a week at 150C/65C (I believe that wax can't properly be absorbed unless it's melted) for the last few years & not had one issue with loss of binding grease or loose screws.

post #6 of 11

It all depends on what kind of grease is used and how much it really matters if some did liquify.  There's a reason car axles have CV Boots on them.  The grease runs out when it heats up without them.  Now, I'm sure that thousands and thousands of people have hot boxed millions of skis with the bindings still on them and not noticed the grease exodus mixed in with any other material that melts off.  It might not matter at all in the average lifespan of race gear.  But, until someone can prove to me that the viscosity of the grease inside ski bindings is designed to tolerate heat of that intensity without breaking down I'd recommend not subjecting them to it.  It's all a matter of utility.  Is speed more important than very long term binding reliability/durability?  Probaby not for serious racers. 

 

Also, for those running a service, binding removal adds to the overall set up time and costs for each operation, not to mention the risk of getting spinners when putting the bindings back on (or getting blamed for pre-existing spinners!).  I'd avoid unnecessarily touching the bindings at all cost if I owned a shop. 

 

So, maybe I'm spouting old wives tales, but on paper it sure looks like a reasonable theory that the grease would run under that intense heat.  Just for fun maybe try to blast a gob of binding grease with  a heat gun and see what happens.  I know what I'd be betting on to happen.

 

Aha.  I found some data.. Might be OK up to 175 f

 

Quote:
Ordinary general-purpose calcium-soap greases have a dropping point of approximately 175o to 200ºF.
 
post #7 of 11

Here's how I tested the bindings a few years ago after I built my hotbox as I wanted to be as confident as I could be that I wasn't going to damage any customer's equipment:

 

1. I took close-up pics of the visible binding grease before cooking so I could visually compare the grease afterwards - there was no difference.

2. I weighed the binding on an electronic scale (accurate to 1g) pre & post cooking - there was no difference.

3. The binding was suspended in the hotbox so that any 'run-off' would be captured on kitchen paper positioned immediately below - there was nothing on the paper.

4. Cooking time was 4hrs at 170F/76C.

 

I did the above tests initially on Atomic Neox, Sallie STH's, Vist Free, Look PX, Look Pivot (uses different grease from the PX), Marker M12 & since then I've done the same test on Dukes, Jesters & Z12/10's and they all performed the same.  

 

And I do all my hotboxing at 150F/65C (usually for 4 hrs) which is quite a bit cooler & which could certainly not be described as "intense heat" (& waaay cooler than any heat gun). The skis/bindings are pretty warm yes, but not hot, & there's no problem touching any metal work with bare hands.  

 

I've also done electronic torque tests on Z10 & Squires (wanted to see if their all plastic construction suffered) by testing them prior to cooking & then immediately after & then again when fully cooled there was no difference in the result there either.

post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderjon View Post

Here's how I tested the bindings a few years ago after I built my hotbox as I wanted to be as confident as I could be that I wasn't going to damage any customer's equipment:

 

4. Cooking time was 4hrs at 170F/76C.

 

icon14.gif

 

That seems to gel with the tech info I found on standard greases.  See what I did there haha?  Anyway, the report I found says the dropping point is usually somewhere between 175F and 200F so we're probably cool at 170F.  Dang, there I go again.  I just can't help it. 

post #9 of 11

"It all depends on what kind of grease is used and how much it really matters if some did liquify.  There's a reason car axles have CV Boots on them."

 

CV boots are there to keep the dirt out. Nothing ruins a bearing faster than dirt.
 

Karl

post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by orionxprss View Post

"It all depends on what kind of grease is used and how much it really matters if some did liquify.  There's a reason car axles have CV Boots on them."

 

CV boots are there to keep the dirt out. Nothing ruins a bearing faster than dirt.
 

Karl

 

 

Quote:
CV boots are the rubber boots that cover the Constant Velocity (CV) joints at each end of your
vehicles drive shafts. The purpose of the CV boot is to keep dirt, water and road grime out and
keep the grease in the joint
while still allowing the wheels to move up, down and steer while
the wheels are rotating.
 
Why Replace CV Boots?
CV boots deteriorate over time and require replacement prior to failure. The most common
cause of CV joint failure is from the deterioration and splitting or tearing of the rubber CV
Boot. This allows the protective grease to escape and dirt, road grime and water to enter into
the CV joint. This causes the CV joint to wear rapidly and fail prematurely.
As long as a CV
Joint remains sealed and protected by the CV boot, no harm will come its way. It will do its
job until it wears out normally.

http://www.productsthatwork.com.au/products/files/CVBootMaint.pdf

wink.gif

 

It's actually the grease that keeps the dirt and dust out because it repels water and dust can't penetrate it.  I dare you to replace a boot without also slathering it with plenty of grease.  Might as well not replace it at all sans grease..

post #11 of 11

bindings on

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