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Universal ski for powder with good carving ability

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
Hello!
I am beginner but want ride in forest and powder. So I try to choose universal ski. I am 180cm in tall and 75 kg.
Now I chosen Armada TST beacause it's no so stiff and have small radius. Please advice something else.
post #2 of 33

Hey usfriender! Welcome to EpicSki, you are gonna find lots of help here... but people will ask you to elaborate a little bit on what you are asking... like where do you ski, how long have you been skiing, how do you ski...

 

you said you are a beginner, so maybe just like me, skiing for a season or two, maybe have never skied before... try to give some more input to the people here at EpicSki to help you out.

 

I believe the TST might not be too wide for real powder for a guy your size, but I will really let others to help you out with the decision, just try to give people some more about yourself and the place you ski

post #3 of 33

In general....  skis that are 66-90mm under foot are better for carving, the thinner, the better for carving and hard surfaces.  Skis that are 90-130mm under foot are better for powder, wider the better.  There is no magic bullet that excels at both.  You'll either end up choosing a fatter carver or a thinner powder ski when you search for one to do both.  Since it is groomed, packed snow is much more likely than real powder on a day to day basis I recommend you go with a wider carving ski unless you add a second pair for special powder days. 

 

The TST looks more like a powder ski than a carver being over 100mm under foot.  It will be OK on hard pack, but less than ideal.  With the tighter radius it will turn more easily, but not hold as well on ice as something in the 80s or thinner. 

post #4 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
you said you are a beginner, so maybe just like me, skiing for a season or two, maybe have never skied before... try to give some more input to the people here at EpicSki to help you out.

I was skiing one season in Carpathian on skis K2 Apache. First days we skied on the ski trail but other days we skied in the forest with powder. So I want to chose skis for skiing 40% on the ski trail and 60% on the powder. And I understand that I need two different type of skis but now I can buy only one skis. In march of 2013 I will go to Georgia, Gudauri resort there are big mountains and many powder. I am beginer but I want to improve my level.

post #5 of 33
90+mm waist is a good allowed around ski
post #6 of 33

Hi - Welcome. I can't follow whether you want one ski for everything or already own a narrower ski for groomers. But in all honesty, I'd begin all this by buying good boots that fit you well. If you already have good boots, then I'd take a season of lessons on rental skis, which will help you get a sense for what kind of feel in a ski you want. Then, I'd think about actual new skis.

 

If you already own a narrow ski, TST's would seem like a good choice for a second ski. Other specific models you might think about would be the new Fischer Big Stix 98, the Elan Spire, the Blizzard Kabookie, and the Dynastar Slicer or Rossignol S3.

 

If you are thinking about one ski for everything, though, I would suggest you look for a ski with a 80-90 mm waist, such as a Rossignol Avenger 82 Basalt, Blizzard Bushwacker, Dynastar Outland 80, or Fischer Motive 86. These can carve well but also handle light powder. They will be quick in the trees. They will grow with you as you get better. 

 

Good luck!

post #7 of 33

1- boots as correctly stated by Beyond

 

2- I think there's a language barrier and skill level issue here. I am not sure you know what you really want. Try to think about where you want to ski and what you are looking to get out of the ski. Better float, more stability, large GS turns, short radius;  I would look for a ski that would help with the development of skills, etc. I think the use of the term Carving and powder is the source of uncertainty. you can carve just about any ski but what are you wanting from them?

post #8 of 33

^^^ Liking your links at the bottom, Finn. Hadn't come across politfact. hijack.gif

post #9 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

1- boots as correctly stated by Beyond

 

2- I think there's a language barrier and skill level issue here. I am not sure you know what you really want. Try to think about where you want to ski and what you are looking to get out of the ski. Better float, more stability, large GS turns, short radius;  I would look for a ski that would help with the development of skills, etc. I think the use of the term Carving and powder is the source of uncertainty. you can carve just about any ski but what are you wanting from them?

 

I don't still have boots, but now I am choosing boots also. One seasons I took rental ski and now I want to have own ski but I can't buy 2 couple of different skis.
I want to ski on the groomed runs around 30-40% and 60-70% on the powder.
So I want something universal with good carving ability, great flotation and good stability.
post #10 of 33

what brands of ski's do you have access to?

 

Gonna be honest here, in your 1st few years you won't really know what you want or like. You need something that is easy enough to ski with confidence and allow you to have fun too. Did you buy the TST? It has solid reviews and it's not a demanding ski.  There really are a lot of skis to choose from but I really think you need to focus on a ski that will allow you to improve. 

 

Do you have these brands?  what kind of budget are you working on (in US dollars) remember to include the cost of a binding!

 

Blizzard

atomic

Armada

Fischer

Volkl

Rossignol

 

etc. 

post #11 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

what brands of ski's do you have access to?

 

Gonna be honest here, in your 1st few years you won't really know what you want or like. You need something that is easy enough to ski with confidence and allow you to have fun too. Did you buy the TST? It has solid reviews and it's not a demanding ski.  There really are a lot of skis to choose from but I really think you need to focus on a ski that will allow you to improve. 

 

Do you have these brands?  what kind of budget are you working on (in US dollars) remember to include the cost of a binding!

 

Blizzard

atomic

Armada

Fischer

Volkl

Rossignol

 

etc. 

I am living in Ukraine but my friend in USA buy me skis on evo (there is pretty discounts for gear of 2012). My budget for boots, bindings and skis ~1000 USD. So can you advise ski that will allow me to improve?

post #12 of 33

I would personally go with something around 105 in the waist and tip rocker only. Going to Gudauri you need a true freeride ski not a pair of matchsticks.

post #13 of 33

As has been stated above, the most important piece of equipment is your boots.  If your boots are not setup optimally for you -- well, it doesn't really matter what ski you're on.  Your boots are your connection to your skis.  If your boots don't fit correctly, your feet can't control your skis.  If your boots don't define a nice balanced stance for you, than skiing simply becomes an exhausting sport.

 

Get your boots right first.  This means going to a local ski shop and letting them fit you.  Buying boots online is a disaster waiting to happen.  There's probably somebody on these forums who has some insight into ski boot fitting operations in the Ukraine.  You might want to post another thread in the "Ask the boot guys" forum here on EpicSki.

 

Once you get your boots setup, then you can start thinking about skis.  You can always spend some time demoing skis and finding one that works for you.

post #14 of 33

Right now there are a number of good skis in the 100-108 mm range under foot with camber under foot (the center of the ski is bent upward) and tip rocker (the front part of the ski behind the tip is bent upward) that hold an edge well on groomed, are reasonably quick to turn, and work well in powder.  The Armada TST sounds like that kind of ski. Blizzard Cochise is another.  A lot of people in the western US use skis like that every day--in the Western US the emphasis is more on powder and other soft snow skiing, rather than on groomed. In general it's easier to ski ice with a wide ski--especially the kind I'm talking about--than it is to ski powder with a narrow stiff ski, so if you want to ski powder it's better to go fairly wide. Those skis might be more than you can handle at your level though, but it's hard to say.  As a general rule with equipment--boots first. The brand doesn't matter--they're all good, but different brands fit different people well so you should get fitted for boots by someone who knows what they're doing.  It's easier to make a boot fit a little looser than to make it tighter, so you don't want a boot that's too big, and it's easier to make a boot softer than harder, so you don't want a beginner's boot that's too soft.  Fit is everything. As far as skis--the best advice is to try a ski before you buy it, if at all possible.  If you fall in love with it buy it.  If you don't, keep looking.  I don't know if that's an option where you are.  Here a shop will often subtract the cost of trying out a pair of good rental skis from the cost of buying them.

post #15 of 33

I was in a really similar situation to the thread starter last season, though probably a little more advanced.  My strategy was to go to the rental/demo shop at one of my favorite mountains (Loveland, CO) and try 2-3 skis each time out.  Some were skis I had read about that seemed like a good fit for me.  Others were recommendations from the guy at the rental counter. I ended up loving the Nordica Patron and found a pair on ebay for a great deal.  

 

Do places near you rent a variety of skis?  It makes a huge difference to actually try different brands and sizes.  

post #16 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by river-z View Post

I was in a really similar situation to the thread starter last season, though probably a little more advanced.  My strategy was to go to the rental/demo shop at one of my favorite mountains (Loveland, CO) and try 2-3 skis each time out.  Some were skis I had read about that seemed like a good fit for me.  Others were recommendations from the guy at the rental counter. I ended up loving the Nordica Patron and found a pair on ebay for a great deal.  

 

Do places near you rent a variety of skis?  It makes a huge difference to actually try different brands and sizes.  

 

YEah, I gotta say it one more time.... get the boots setup and in the mean time, demo a few skis.  This is what I meant about you not knowing what you want, need or like yet. If you can't demo or rent ski's let us know but its really not a good idea to buy yet unless you have to or have a lot of extra cash.

post #17 of 33
A powder ski that has good carving ability doesn't exist. Get something in the 90-100mm range and get some powder skiing lessons. Anything over 100mm is going to really hurt your carving ability and in the bumps. A proper set of fitted boots will help you much more than any ski could, balance is extremely important when skiing in powder. If you limit it $1000 then go for used skis from a bear and a proper fitted boot.
post #18 of 33

^^^^ Uh, go try a PMGear 183 Fat, or a BMX108, or a Cochise, or an Elan 1010 or a RP112 and report back. IMO, the mythical cutoff is really more around 85-88 mm, but I think it's more a continuous change that at some point we decide is affecting us than a threshold. I can carve up a storm on a 115 ski, but it'll be big arcs, slow edge to edge, and my knees will pay for it latter anyway. 

post #19 of 33

this is the dudes second season skiing.......

post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

^^^^ Uh, go try a PMGear 183 Fat, or a BMX108, or a Cochise, or an Elan 1010 or a RP112 and report back. IMO, the mythical cutoff is really more around 85-88 mm, but I think it's more a continuous change that at some point we decide is affecting us than a threshold. I can carve up a storm on a 115 ski, but it'll be big arcs, slow edge to edge, and my knees will pay for it latter anyway. 


There's a fine line between railing and carving. I'd like to see you keep up with me on some 115mm skis while I'm on my 4x4's. There is no comparison lol
post #21 of 33

Letsee railing can mean carving the radius dictated by the ski, or it can mean carving fast at high edge angles, or it can mean sliding down rails. But I'll assume (b). So what's your point? That a 75 mm carver can arc faster than a powder ski before it becomes unstable? Uhhh yeah. th_dunno-1[1].gif But we were talking about carving, which is actually tougher the slower you go; if you think otherwise try making railroad tracks at a walking pace. U.S. Ski Team exercise. Then try carving on one ski, both directions, same ski. Standard teaching exercise. 

 

Meanwhile, I'll stick to my argument that most any ski can carve but it gets less efficient as the ski gets fatter. And you can worry about comparos. wink.gif

post #22 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

 

YEah, I gotta say it one more time.... get the boots setup and in the mean time, demo a few skis.  This is what I meant about you not knowing what you want, need or like yet. If you can't demo or rent ski's let us know but its really not a good idea to buy yet unless you have to or have a lot of extra cash.

In our area only thin skis 70-80mm waist is available for renting. And I can't try skis with 90-100mm waist in deal. But when I skied on K2 Apache tail was drowning in powder. And I know that I need to buy boots first of all but i need to find boot fitter in Ukraine.

Thank a lot everyone for advise.

post #23 of 33

Do an online search of Powder magazine & Skiing magazine buyers guides - from this year or last. They've got plenty of info on fat skis that also rail on hardpack.

http://www.powdermag.com/2013-skiers-choice/

http://www.skinet.com/ski/gear/skis?gender=Male&awards%5B%5D=6

post #24 of 33

there are many APaches so not sure what you were on but part of your issues are most likely tecnique and boot setup.  I am not knocking you at all, but you can't expect to start off skiing and be a great skier without time and hopefully a lot of lessons. 

 

for the most part, a ski in the upper 80's or 90's should give you a relatively good balance overall but the ski's performance and what you like in a ski is not dictated soley by the width underfoot. I would say grab a ski like a line 90, Blizzard "the One", k2 Fujas or volkl bridge but there are so many and they do really vary. In general, I would steer you towards something that has minimal rocker, about 170-176 in length, moderate stiffness and about 16-18m TR. A ski like this will allow you to learn to ski better and understand what you like or don't like in a ski. You need to build skills and confidence.

post #25 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

there are many APaches so not sure what you were on but part of your issues are most likely tecnique and boot setup.  I am not knocking you at all, but you can't expect to start off skiing and be a great skier without time and hopefully a lot of lessons. 

 

for the most part, a ski in the upper 80's or 90's should give you a relatively good balance overall but the ski's performance and what you like in a ski is not dictated soley by the width underfoot. I would say grab a ski like a line 90, Blizzard "the One", k2 Fujas or volkl bridge but there are so many and they do really vary. In general, I would steer you towards something that has minimal rocker, about 170-176 in length, moderate stiffness and about 16-18m TR. A ski like this will allow you to learn to ski better and understand what you like or don't like in a ski. You need to build skills and confidence.

it was k2 apache crossfire. I understand that I need  to have a lot of lessons to be great skier and I really want it.

 

thank you for options for skis, so I was right when i was seeing armada tst 183 in length, 16.8 radius, 132-102-123 mm. Now I have big list of skis and my choice will be tough:)

post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by usfriender View Post

Hello!
I am beginner but want ride in forest and powder. So I try to choose universal ski. I am 180cm in tall and 75 kg.
Now I chosen Armada TST beacause it's no so stiff and have small radius. Please advice something else.

If your a beginner and you want a good carver with decent capabilities I would go for a mid-fat
ski. If you want a ski with more flex , try a Rossignol ski in the 80-90 cm width range . Since your
beginner and want a good carver too , I wouldn't go with anything higher them 90 cm width.
Also go relatively short on the length .
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmypowder View Post


If your a beginner and you want a good carver with decent capabilities I would go for a mid-fat
ski. If you want a ski with more flex , try a Rossignol ski in the 80-90 cm width range . Since your
beginner and want a good carver too , I wouldn't go with anything higher them 90 cm width.
Also go relatively short on the length .


80-90cm width....that's one massive ski roflmao.gif

post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

Quote: Originally Posted by Jimmypowder If your a beginner and you want a good carver with decent capabilities I would go for a mid-fat ski. If you want a ski with more flex , try a Rossignol ski in the 80-90 cm width range . Since your beginner and want a good carver too , I wouldn't go with anything higher them 90 cm width. Also go relatively short on the length . 80-90cm width....that's one massive ski

Well he wants a ski with some powder capabilities so what are you gonna recommend,something under 80 cm width??

That ain't gonna work . He should probably go low end at 80 cm width .

I ride a
Rossignol S7 , at I think 115 cm width. That's massive but I've seen bigger
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmypowder View Post


Well he wants a ski with some powder capabilities so what are you gonna recommend,something under 80 cm width??
That ain't gonna work . He should probably go low end at 80 cm width .
I ride a
Rossignol S7 , at I think 115 cm width. That's massive but I've seen bigger


I think you're confusing mm with cm.  My rossingnol s7's are 115mm wide and 188cm long wink.gif

post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post


I think you're confusing mm with cm.  My rossingnol s7's are 115mm wide and 188cm long wink.gif

 

I want to try out some 90CM wide skis.eek.gif

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