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should I buy????

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

$ 470.00 2012 Line Influence 105 Used Demo Skis
with Salomon Z12 Demo with Bindings


186cm I am big guy 5-11 225 x football player pretty aggressive skier who wants to ski better in the trees, pow and use same ski on groomers. I only ski out west 15-20 days a year

 

Will these work for me

post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack View Post

$ 470.00 2012 Line Influence 105 Used Demo Skis
with Salomon Z12 Demo with Bindings


186cm I am big guy 5-11 225 x football player pretty aggressive skier who wants to ski better in the trees, pow and use same ski on groomers. I only ski out west 15-20 days a year

 

Will these work for me


Used ski with a shit binding. That's too much to pay for a ski that has been drilled, and I would not pay anything for a Solly Z binding. Look for deals here and on TGR. This is not a deal.

post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 

thanks I did check out the items on this site and will look at the other as well.  I guess I thought it was a good deal because it came with the bindings but sounds like the bindings are not good.

 

What do you think about the Rossignol sickkl, would this ski be stiff enough for my weight? or should I stick with the Dynastar 6th sense as for bindings I thought I just needed something with a DIN above 14 did not know the quality of the binding made a difference

 

thanks,

post #4 of 25

why do you think you need a din above 14?

while the bigger you are you need more DIN, the bigger your feet the less DIN you need 

 

So unless you have absurdly small feet for your height and weight, likely you don't really need DIN 14.  

If you were limiting your choices just based on that, you can now expand and look at other things.  

 

http://www.dinsetting.com/

can get you some idea of what din you really need (but get it done properly at a shop if you aren't sure)

 

http://www.powder7.com/ has a ton of used demo skis that you can take a look at.

 

That being said, I don't think the skis you picked out is a terrible price, but it's not a deal either.

The bindings are the stock demo binding, so you don't need to redrill anything.  

 

I'm not going to be a binding snob and say you need to go spend $300 for uber ski bindings and  system demo bindings are just crap.  They're fine.

 

just as a point of reference, powder7 is selling the line115 for 449, add on shipping and you're in the same ballpark.

 

but maybe figure out what skis you want first, then look for best price. 

or at least put out some proposals then ask which would people pick if they were in your shoes.

post #5 of 25

Go onto eBay and search for new old stock, you can find very good deals if you know what you want (or are willing to compromise) otherwise see a good ski shop (few of the members here have some)

 

DIN Value on bindings raytseng hit it good here.  I upgraded my DIN 14's to DIN 15's on the Look (Dynastar) PX line for 2 reasons:  First and foremost  toe piece is not plastic!  Had bad experience in the far past and it is sufficient for the change. Secondly, the pivoting toe on the PX15's and up seem at least to me to have a better design.  (Same would go for the Dynastar, Rossi versions, same bindings different skins).

 

At 6' 168lbs, BSL 308 and 3+ DIN is 9.5 (I set 9)  near the bottom end of the binding.  For my ability, and ski style I am more than comfortable with this, but I do have a few years in skiing.

 

The sad part of skis now is that a lot are designed to have a particular binding (like it or not),  In some cases, you need to decide which is more important the binding, or the ski.  Personally, for me its the ski unless the binding offered is total garbage.  Some of the members can help you overcome this obsticle in most cases (but be prepared to pay for a good and valuable service).

post #6 of 25

When you are buying a higher DIN binding, in many cases you are buying a better and stronger housing more than just a spring. That better (usually more metal) housing is important on a wider ski do to better lateral rigidity. 

post #7 of 25
What others, including Phil, have said.

What do you ski currently? What do you like and dislike about them? Will you be keeping, selling, or throwing them away?

What's your skiing ability?

And where out West do you typically ski? (Whistler, Snowbird, Vail, and Squaw don't necessarily cry out for the same ski.)
post #8 of 25

My comments on the bindings have nothing to do with DIN, I have most 14 and 16 din Solly's. But at 220 pounds myself I would not hesitate to ski a 12 DIN binding.

 

I was more referring to the fact that they are demo bindings with a toepiece that has a reputation for being a piece of shit. And it's still not that good of a deal for a used ski. Especially given how bad many demo fleets get abused.

post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 

thanks l will focus on the ski first and work through the binding need second....
 

post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 

90% of my ski days will be at Snow Basin in UT. I currently have a pair of Solomon X-Wing 6 ( don't laugh) bought them my second trip out west 3-years ago and my ability level has out run them. They are also very short 158, I sink like a rock in the powder. I plan to keep them and use if no good snow is around when I ski this Dec. and early March.

 

I ski mostly black and double blues but would like to challenge myself this season...my 8-year old son has caught up to the old man. So I would like to get more into the trees this year and more powder,  I would consider myself a safe but an aggressive skier giving my athletic background.

post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thanks you ski community for all of the valuable feedback to my questions. Would be interested in peoples feedback on the best buy option below based on my need for an all MT. ski with performance in the powder. I prefer new but the used ski options with the bindings below giving the price are pretty attractive. With that being said  I would like to not have to buy again for 3-4 seasons as I do not see myself attempting to advance past the current level I plan to be at this season.

Option #1$479.00 New 2012 Icelantic Gypsy SkisSize:170cm Icelantic Size ChartDimensions:152/125/147Radius:19Rocker Bindings: Not included

 

Option #2 $374.99 option #2 2012 Rossignol Sickle Skis
with Rossignol 120 Demo Binding

Size:

174cm Rossignol Size Chart

Dimensions:

140/110/133

Radius:

21

Rocker Type:

Reverse Camber

   
 
   
   

Bindings:

Rossignol 120 Demo

DIN Range:

3.5-12 DIN Chart

Condition: 7.5/10

 

Option #3 $450 Line Influence 115 Specs:

Size:

172cm Line Size Chart

Dimensions:

153/115/142

Radius:

18

Rocker Type:

Freeride Rocker

   
 
   
   

Bindings:

Salomon Z12 Demo Binding

DIN Range:

4-12 DIN Chart

Condition: 8.5/10

 

Option #4 $499.00 K2 obSETHed Specs:

Size:

169cm

Dimensions:

146/117/134

Radius:

23

   
   
 
   

Tail Type:

Full Twin Tip

Bindings:

Salomon Z12 Demo Binding

DIN Range:

4-12 DIN Chart

Condition: 8.5/10

post #12 of 25

hey, all those skis are too short for you i think.  I think you should be looking at 180+ lengths.

 

If you are looking at used demos at powder7, you're sort of at the wrong period of time to buy for internet used demo sales.  Since these get liquidated at the end of season and nothing really "new" from shops comes in over the summer, so you're pretty much picking through the scraps that everyone has picked through all through spring and summer.

 

Since we're coming into the new season, your better bet is for "new" last-years stuff from ski stores as they swap out gear for the new season (look for local sales or tent sales), or used sales from individuals (ski swaps or other individual seller posts).

 

I still think you need to figure out potentially 1 or 2 skis you want, then find the best price for that.  Rather then going about it by having such and such a budget and fitting whatever ski into that budget.

post #13 of 25

I got Demo ski's 2012 Volke Gotamas in super nice shape, for $300, so yes there are better deals out there.  TONS of inventory. 

post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

When you are buying a higher DIN binding, in many cases you are buying a better and stronger housing more than just a spring. That better (usually more metal) housing is important on a wider ski do to better lateral rigidity. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

My comments on the bindings have nothing to do with DIN, I have most 14 and 16 din Solly's. But at 220 pounds myself I would not hesitate to ski a 12 DIN binding.

 

I was more referring to the fact that they are demo bindings with a toepiece that has a reputation for being a piece of shit. And it's still not that good of a deal for a used ski. Especially given how bad many demo fleets get abused.

 

Go to DINSETTINGS.ORG to figure out what you may need in terms of settings.  Depending on several factors WT, BSL, Ability and age (if you're over 50) it give you a fair idea where to start.

 

If you are up for the risk (go higher, if not go lower) but now you have a starting point.  There are other posts that discuss going below settings on some bindings provided you have them checked for reliability on hold and release (some bindings are the same through several brands and due to graphics have a slight variation in DIN setting range).  Special equipement is required so don't cheap out here if this is the route you take.

 

Sorry can't comment on the skis, don't get the access to those wonderful snow conditions.

post #15 of 25

oldschoolskier completely missed the point of Philpug's and ecimmortal's posts.  The issue is not what his DIN is, it's whether the binding is constructed well enough to reliably handle a 225-pound guy on wide skis (which create additional leverage that stresses the binding).

 

Back to the OP.  As raytseng notes, none of those skis are a good option for you.  A 225-pounder looking at rockered skis needs to look at stuff in the mid 180cm range and longer.

 

Someone has listed a pair of 189 K2 Maiden AK with the PBR topsheet and Rossignol Axial2 bindings (a good binding) for $240 on GearTrade.

 

You can get a new pair of 186 Sickles for $350 (sans binding) from Evo.  Or the Atomic Snoop in 184 for $329.

 

Level Nine has decent prices on two of my favorite bindings (I'm a 200-pounder), the Look PX12 for $139 and the Tyrolia Freeflex Pro 15 for $149.  You can also poke around their skis and see if anything catches your eyes; they have pretty good deals on a lot of stuff.

 

Oh -- and there are a pair of 188 Praxis Protests on TGR with Marker Griffon Demo bindings (solid bindings) for $400.


Edited by TheDad - 9/7/12 at 2:33pm
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 

Lots of great info. What  I do not understand is why I need a ski in the 180 range? My limited understanding thinks  I want to stay in the 174 to 178 range to help with my turning...especially in the trees. Am I wrong in my thinking that shorter does this better than longer or should I go longer and spend more time thinking about finding a ski with a turn radius under 20 which will help me with my turning in trees and on groomers.

post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack View Post

Lots of great info. What  I do not understand is why I need a ski in the 180 range? My limited understanding thinks  I want to stay in the 174 to 178 range to help with my turning...especially in the trees. Am I wrong in my thinking that shorter does this better than longer or should I go longer and spend more time thinking about finding a ski with a turn radius under 20 which will help me with my turning in trees and on groomers.

I ski a 178 and I would not go any smaller, I am 5-8 195, so I would think that a 180 to 186 would be just fine for you and feel the same.   What I don't really agree with is going to a full 115  or bigger in width, since you want to ski everywhere and on groomers.  I probably just started a big long line of posts about how retarded I am, but I am still of the thinking that if you want to better your "SKILLS", then learn how to ski powder, instead of getting a big fat ski to do it for you.   Yes i have Gotamas, but I also was proficient in skiing powder with skinny ski's for decades prior to going wider and I don't ski them everyday.   I am NOT saying go skinny but rather, get a ski that will enable you to ski all over the mountain and will help you to ski powder but not do it for you.   Something in the mid 90's to 100 should be more than enough.  Line prophet 98 for instance in a 186 would be a killer set up for all conditions, or if your really worried get the 179.  Thats my 2 cents...  

post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

oldschoolskier completely missed the point of Philpug's and ecimmortal's posts.  The issue is not what his DIN is, it's whether the binding is constructed well enough to reliably handle a 225-pound guy on wide skis (which create additional leverage that stresses the binding).

 

Back to the OP.  As raytseng notes, none of those skis are a good option for you.  A 225-pounder looking at rockered skis needs to look at stuff in the mid 180cm range and longer.

 

Someone has listed a pair of 189 K2 Maiden AK with the PBR topsheet and Rossignol Axial2 bindings (a good binding) for $240 on GearTrade.

 

You can get a new pair of 186 Sickles for $350 (sans binding) from Evo.  Or the Atomic Snoop in 184 for $329.

 

Level Nine has decent prices on two of my favorite bindings (I'm a 200-pounder), the Look PX12 for $139 and the Tyrolia Freeflex Pro 15 for $149.  You can also poke around their skis and see if anything catches your eyes; they have pretty good deals on a lot of stuff.

 

Oh -- and there are a pair of 188 Praxis Protests on TGR with Marker Griffon Demo bindings (solid bindings) for $400.

Sorry TheDad, didn't miss Phil's and E's point at all. Right on the money.

 

Please re-read my post so that OP can to the better quality bindings to suit his requirements with higher settings and metal housings for reliability (and see my earlier posting for doing the same) and the possible solution to get them set where he needs them if he's are on the low side of the scale. 

 

It's all a game about trade offs and getting the best package/protection possible.

 

 

BTW PX12's toe piece is plastic (maybe you missed Phil's point).

post #19 of 25

While I am not a fan of the PX series myself, there are some metal heeled PX's (no longer in the line up) that are pretty darn beefy for a 12DIN binding. I wouldn't dismiss the Salomon STh12 O/S or Driver as solid 12 DIN'er's. 

post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

Sorry TheDad, didn't miss Phil's and E's point at all. Right on the money.

 

Please re-read my post so that OP can to the better quality bindings to suit his requirements with higher settings and metal housings for reliability (and see my earlier posting for doing the same) and the possible solution to get them set where he needs them if he's are on the low side of the scale. 

 

It's all a game about trade offs and getting the best package/protection possible.

 

 

BTW PX12's toe piece is plastic (maybe you missed Phil's point).

 

Now I understand.  My bad.

 

The PX12 does indeed have a plastic toepiece.  So does the PX14, for that matter.  And all the Aero/Race toe Tyrolias under 18 DIN.  They're still much better toes than the craptastic Z series, which is (as I understand it) a higher-sprung descendant of the Quadrax toe that was sold for intermediates and at no greater than 10 DIN.  (As Phil notes, the Driver toe is a whole different ball of wax.)

post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 

OK experts, I am back in need of help before I pull the trigger. As stated before I am a big guy who only skies out west in Utah and I am an aggressive skier but skis blacks and double blues with caution. Looking to get into pow, double blacks and the trees this year but also plan on spending a lot of time with the family on the groomers, I am  5-10 225 looking for ski that is a 9 on pow but perhaps no less than a 7 on the crud and groomers (everyday ski) despite everyone’s thoughts I have also decided to stay in the 176-179 range giving that my current skies are only 160... do not want to struggle with length of the ski giving my limited ski season. I live in FL.

My current  4 options with one wild card because the ski looks great (I guess marketing does work…J:

 

1. $469.00 2012 Line Influence 179 cm 105 underfoot turn radius of 19

 

2. $374.00 Rossignol Sickle 174 cm 110 underfoot turn radius of 21

 

3. $450.00 used Volki Gotama 178 cm 107 underfoot with Tyrolia sp 120 sympro bindings

 

4. K2 Obsethed 179 cm 117 underfoot turn radius 23

 

My wild card

5. Icelantic Goypsy 170 cm 125 underfoot turn radius 19

 

thanks for your thoughts working on a budget of no more than $600 out the door with bindings

post #22 of 25

You ski only out west and weigh 225.  Every single ski you identified is too short for you, IMHO. But I'm a bit of a size queen.

post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

You ski only out west and weigh 225.  Every single ski you identified is too short for you, IMHO. But I'm a bit of a size queen.

I'm gunna have to agree with Dad. I am 5' 9 and 155 used to be closer to 145 and my daily ski for a long time was a 179cm, 90mm ski. I have 180+ that I use now for powder and back country. 

 

The honest truth is that if your skiing trees in powder your not going to be carving turns, heck even without powder your most likely won't be carving. Few people do, including the pros and at the risk of creating an avalanche of comments there's a lot more to skiing turns than just carving.

 

Additionally the turn radius is what the ski does naturally when you get better it is actually possible to flex the ski into tighter turns and obviously it is possible to do longer turns

 

That being said with you buying a one ski quiver I would worry very little about the turn radius. Length, stiffness and durability are far more important.

 

Finally if your looking at a reverse camber, early rise, twin tip, ect the ski will ski much shorter than it is on hard snow as much of the ski doesn''t make proper contact. 

 

Edit: I'm gunna second a couple of others and say that for a one ski quiver anything over 105ish is fatter than you want.  

post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack View Post

OK experts, I am back in need of help before I pull the trigger. As stated before I am a big guy who only skies out west in Utah and I am an aggressive skier but skis blacks and double blues with caution. Looking to get into pow, double blacks and the trees this year but also plan on spending a lot of time with the family on the groomers, I am  5-10 225 looking for ski that is a 9 on pow but perhaps no less than a 7 on the crud and groomers (everyday ski) despite everyone’s thoughts I have also decided to stay in the 176-179 range giving that my current skies are only 160... do not want to struggle with length of the ski giving my limited ski season. I live in FL.

My current  4 options with one wild card because the ski looks great (I guess marketing does work…J:

 

1. $469.00 2012 Line Influence 179 cm 105 underfoot turn radius of 19

 

2. $374.00 Rossignol Sickle 174 cm 110 underfoot turn radius of 21

 

3. $450.00 used Volki Gotama 178 cm 107 underfoot with Tyrolia sp 120 sympro bindings

 

4. K2 Obsethed 179 cm 117 underfoot turn radius 23

 

My wild card

5. Icelantic Goypsy 170 cm 125 underfoot turn radius 19

 

thanks for your thoughts working on a budget of no more than $600 out the door with bindings

you can get last years models brand new for cheap right now.  I would have to agree with everyone about the size,  I weigh about 35 pounds less than you and ski a 178, which is short but I like to rip turns and tight trees.  might want to go up just one size on any of the ski's you mentioned.  However you know your own ability better than anyone, so if a 178 is what you want then get it.   I hear the prophet 98 is good too.  

post #25 of 25

Something to consider - a ski with early rise or rocker will ski shorter on the groomed while giving you more length in the powder where you need it Look at the running length of the ski in addition to the overall length. A 188cm rockered ski can have a running length of 156. Given you are looking for a ski that will give you a "7" on groomed, you probably don't want a ski that rockered, more of an early rise. The early rise or rocker is in my opinion more important than width, especially given that you want a single ski quiver.

 

I've been debating over keeping a pair of Elan Spire, 98 wide in a 181 that I already bought, but might sell. They have an early rise, excellent one ski quiver. I'd sell them for what I got them for, $325. If you're interested. (I really didn't need three new pair this season).

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