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What charger for snowbasin?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Skiing Beaver Mt the last 5 years my quiver has run towards lighter, softer, pow oriented and  touring capable skis. 

 

Curent quiver:

190 DPS 112RP Dukes / Dynafits w/ dynaduke plates

184 Blizzard The One Look PX12 / Dynafit swap plate

 

Rock Skis: 

185 Dynastar Huge Trouble - OG flat camber. Look PX

185 Praxis Powders PX18

 

Unmounted:

192 Elan 777

165 Volkl SL

 

I have a pair of PX15 laying around that might go on one of the unmounted guys or on something else. 

 

Snowbasin is a much bigger mountain, has lots of long runs, open terrain, more wind effected snow, high speed groomers, and other cool stuff going on. They get great snow, but its not LCC. 

 

So I am toying with the idea of a versatile not too fat directional charger to compliment the current quiver. So far I am looking at:

 

  • Cochise 
  • Katana
  • Cham 107
  • Billy Goad
  • Play it again on the Dynastar Huge

 

What say you?

post #2 of 19

If you plan on keeping the one's you have, then I'd say a Katana. Or to stray from your list (this is Epic, after all), a Prior Overlord, or a 118 Kastle in the new 183 length, if you can handle the hot pink. The BG is said to be a fine ski, but this year's has an unconventional shape (reverse elliptical with traditional sidecut beginning at heel) that reportedly rewards looser styles also addressed by the 112RP that you already have. Cochise isn't a real powder ski (which I expect to handle powder everywhere, not just in a open untracked), nor is Cham 107, although both certainly charge. Cannot speak to the Huge. The three I mentioned all can happily mach variable powder but also can deal nicely with tight spaces at moderate speeds, since even Snow Basin has a tree or two. 

post #3 of 19

When I skied at Snowbasin last year, there wasn't any new snow on the ground, so I went with my 185 Movement Source skis. The brand doesn't get much attention in the US, but they make great skis. Similar in shape to a Legend 94, but much lighter with a lot more life in them. I buy them from these guys: http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en  Widths 135 x 94 x 121 cm

post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

If you plan on keeping the one's you have, then I'd say a Katana. Or to stray from your list (this is Epic, after all), a Prior Overlord, or a 118 Kastle in the new 183 length, if you can handle the hot pink. The BG is said to be a fine ski, but this year's has an unconventional shape (reverse elliptical with traditional sidecut beginning at heel) that reportedly rewards looser styles also addressed by the 112RP that you already have. Cochise isn't a real powder ski (which I expect to handle powder everywhere, not just in a open untracked), nor is Cham 107, although both certainly charge. Cannot speak to the Huge. The three I mentioned all can happily mach variable powder but also can deal nicely with tight spaces at moderate speeds, since even Snow Basin has a tree or two. 

 

I am keeping what I have. I love the DPS in pow and groomers and the Ones are a nice all mountain ski. I have the trees covered IMO. I am sure I will be fine with what I have to start the season, but toying with the idea of a burly charger for the bigger more open terrain. 

 

One of us, may be confused on the Billy Goat, the revers elliptical was referring to camber, not side-cut. No? 

 

My knowledge of prior skis is minimal, I would much prefer to target a praxis or ON3P offering or something from a mainstream vendor. Kastle BMX 118 183 seems a little small and softish for what I want, but I have never skied them. 

post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post

When I skied at Snowbasin last year, there wasn't any new snow on the ground, so I went with my 185 Movement Source skis. The brand doesn't get much attention in the US, but they make great skis. Similar in shape to a Legend 94, but much lighter with a lot more life in them. I buy them from these guys: http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en  Widths 135 x 94 x 121 cm

 

Thanks. 

post #6 of 19

When you say the BMX 118/183 is small and softish, does the small refer to the 118 or the 183?

 

I'm guessing the 183 length not the 118 waist.  To me that waist doesnt complement your current quiver at all.

 

Would a GS ski (stiff, big radius) be what you want?  The top of the wolverine/men's downhill is accesable

and if you like speed thats a place you can get it for sure.

 

Or something more versatile but not dedicated to powder? 

post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

One of us, may be confused on the Billy Goat, the revers elliptical was referring to camber, not side-cut. No? 

Nope, it's called RES, for Reverse Elliptical Sidecut. Here's Rowen over at TGR on the 2013 BG: "New Reverse Elliptical Sidecut on all sizes. Basically, its a classical pintailed ski in the tail, but then reverse sidecut in the tip, in an ellipse so theres a contact region out in the tip. You get grip in the tail, then a point in the tip when its on edge and in hard snow. More tip rocker, less tail rocker (slightly anyways), and 191 proportions have been sized down to the 186, 176 and new 166cm sizes." Scott, the ON3P founder, puts it this way: "So from boot center forward, the BG is a full reverse." 

 

Meaning, that the front is a Praxis Powder, the rear is a traditional sidecut pintail. The elliptical idea is to make the junction of the two sidecuts very smooth, essentially from no sidecut to traditional. I posed the question to Scott about whether having the negative sidecut begin in midboot would compromise the ability to pressure the tip, but he said no. 

 

Here's link to good thread on various models, but emphasis is on BG: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/237660-2012-2013-ON3P-SIA-Photos-and-Discussion?highlight=on3p

post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Nope, it's called RES, for Reverse Elliptical Sidecut. Here's Rowen over at TGR on the 2013 BG: "New Reverse Elliptical Sidecut on all sizes. Basically, its a classical pintailed ski in the tail, but then reverse sidecut in the tip, in an ellipse so theres a contact region out in the tip. You get grip in the tail, then a point in the tip when its on edge and in hard snow. More tip rocker, less tail rocker (slightly anyways), and 191 proportions have been sized down to the 186, 176 and new 166cm sizes." Scott, the ON3P founder, puts it this way: "So from boot center forward, the BG is a full reverse." 

 

Meaning, that the front is a Praxis Powder, the rear is a traditional sidecut pintail. The elliptical idea is to make the junction of the two sidecuts very smooth, essentially from no sidecut to traditional. I posed the question to Scott about whether having the negative sidecut begin in midboot would compromise the ability to pressure the tip, but he said no. 

 

Here's link to good thread on various models, but emphasis is on BG: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/237660-2012-2013-ON3P-SIA-Photos-and-Discussion?highlight=on3p

 

Ok, well then the BG is off the list. I already have a full reverse reverse and a 5 point paddle tech ski. Don't need another reverse sidecut ski. The wrenegade maybe on though, I think that is mor what I am looking for.  

 

I did ski the cham 107 at the gathering last spring, I am very interested but it was only for a couple of runs. I think its 90% there for an off piste charger, but its manners on the groomed were just "ok", it really was slow to initiate. Snowbasin has alot of groomer skiing, i could probabbly leanr to like it, but  I suspect there is a better ski out there for what I am looking for.  


Edited by tromano - 9/3/12 at 5:37pm
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post

When you say the BMX 118/183 is small and softish, does the small refer to the 118 or the 183?

 

I'm guessing the 183 length not the 118 waist.  To me that waist doesnt complement your current quiver at all.

 

Would a GS ski (stiff, big radius) be what you want?  The top of the wolverine/men's downhill is accesable

and if you like speed thats a place you can get it for sure.

 

Or something more versatile but not dedicated to powder? 

 

Yep, the 183 seems kind a short. I understand the construction is focused on light and lively in soft snow. This would repalce the DPS, not complement it.

 

A race GS is a great idea, but thats not what I was looking for. I don't have any particualr width in mind, 100ish-120ish in a nice burly freeride ski. I think a GS - SG radius is what I am looking for. 

post #10 of 19

I was thinking 'ON3P Wrenegade' as I was reading, then it showed up late in the thread.

post #11 of 19

If the 183 BMX118 is like any of the other fat Kastles, doubt light and lively. More like smooth and happy at any speed. 

 

But moving on, the Wren sounds good. My only issue with ON3P's has been that they're pretty heavy compared to the competition, which is great for the NW, maybe not so great for the Wasatch or Rockies. If you want something lighter and as stiff or stiffer, PM 191 Fats - a slightly bigger, significantly beefier Lhasa Pow - might be a consideration. What I like about PM's are that they're comparatively traditional design, fairly mild front rocker, 32-34 m radius, and semi-twin tails, so you can use them for nearly anything. And when Pat says "stiff" flex, he means seriously stiff. But you're concerned about Charging, and not blowing smoke about racing skis, then the Bro 192 - slightly detuned version of their competition model - would be worth a looksee.

 

Or if you want something a bit narrower yet (106), the Moment Belafonte gets serious cred again as a detuned version of their competition model. Like the PM Bro 192, not for tight spaces or lower speeds. In light powder, you'd want these to stay above 35 mph, I'd guess. But IMO, it's a more narrowly focused ski than something like the Cochise or BMX108 or Olympus 1010, so...


Edited by beyond - 9/3/12 at 8:17pm
post #12 of 19
I think the Cochise would be a great ski for when the snow gets funky, heavy or chewed up, but I don't really have any experience with the others on your list. However, I do have experience with Snowbasin. For the tasty powder days or smooth wind blown, I have been perfectly happy with my Super 7's biggrin.gif . I also have some Volkl SL's that are great for the early season machine made snow. My go to everyday skis for when the whole mountain is open are my 101mm Chariots right now. I think something like the Rossi E88, 98, Goode Fire or a Blizzard Bonafide would fit the same bill quite nicely for me of the skis I have spent some time on.

I do prefer a ski that will carve more than slarve.
JF
Edited by 4ster - 9/3/12 at 11:06pm
post #13 of 19

I ski Snowbasin a lot too (not in the same league as 4ster undoubtedly but have probably done so for more years).  It strikes me that you already have several powder skis in the DPS, Praxis and Dynastar).  Regardless of width, I think a ski that is fun (not just proficient) and carvy on packed or mixed snow is more important at Snowbasin than it would be at Beaver Mountain since a lot of runs start or end groomed finish.  Some that come to mind of those I have skied or own are: Blizzard Bonafide (own), Nordica Hell &Back or Enforcer, Rossi E98, or Head Inferno.  While I have not skied them and solely based on reputation or brand experience, I would also consider: Kastle BMX 108 (or even MX 88), Line Influence 105/115, Volkl Mantra, Blizzard Cochise, Atomic Ritual or Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot. 

post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB77 View Post

I ski Snowbasin a lot too (not in the same league as 4ster undoubtedly but have probably done so for more years).  It strikes me that you already have several powder skis in the DPS, Praxis and Dynastar).  Regardless of width, I think a ski that is fun (not just proficient) and carvy on packed or mixed snow is more important at Snowbasin than it would be at Beaver Mountain since a lot of runs start or end groomed finish.  Some that come to mind of those I have skied or own are: Blizzard Bonafide (own), Nordica Hell &Back or Enforcer, Rossi E98, or Head Inferno.  While I have not skied them and solely based on reputation or brand experience, I would also consider: Kastle BMX 108 (or even MX 88), Line Influence 105/115, Volkl Mantra, Blizzard Cochise, Atomic Ritual or Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot. 

 

I totally agree with this assessment^.  I want a ski that will "charge" anything I encounter off-piste, yet still lay down some fun arcs on the way back to the lift.  I don't think you need a ski over 100mm to achieve this, I do want some sidecut.

 

JF

post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

 

I totally agree with this assessment^.  I want a ski that will "charge" anything I encounter off-piste, yet still lay down some fun arcs on the way back to the lift.  I don't think you need a ski over 100mm to achieve this, I do want some sidecut.

 

JF

 

This is exactly what I am looking for. 

post #16 of 19
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

 

I totally agree with this assessment^.  I want a ski that will "charge" anything I encounter off-piste, yet still lay down some fun arcs on the way back to the lift.  I don't think you need a ski over 100mm to achieve this, I do want some sidecut.

 

JF


If I didn't have some new TST's I would really be looking at the Trust: http://www.movementskis.com/en/products/skis/freeski/trust

Edit: the new Buzz that replaced the Sluff may be the ski you seek, if the Trust is to burly.

I may just have to pick up the Trust as my 12/13 purchase.


Edited by liv2 ski - 9/8/12 at 9:14am
post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

So far I am looking at:

 

  • Cochise 
  • Katana
  • Cham 107
  • Billy Goad
  • Play it again on the Dynastar Huge

 

 

I am going to stick with the Dynastar Huge for now. 

post #19 of 19

 The Katana, now made in Germany and a total make-over, Cochise, and E98 are excellent options for solid chargers and crud skis. Any would add nicely to your quiver. It's possible that the Chams have a softer forebody than above mentioned skis. I skied the Huge for two seasons and enjoyed it for my powder ski. It has less sidecut, large TR, than some of your charger options.

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