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No real question, just venting my frustrations about skis for 2013 - Page 2

post #31 of 51

todays ski's are becoming much more skier specific style oriented (hard charger, finesse,PNW tahoe powder, CO powder, more open terrain vs. tighter, etc) this includes "powder" ski's. That line is being blurred as well. While there are true powder-centric ski's, their performance and feel characteristics will vary.  I picked up a pair of 138's just to have that different feel than a 112 or a bentchetler or a Bibby or a JJ or a "Insert your ski here"_____.  The amount of rocker, stiffness, flex pattern, camber, construction materials and so on all contribute to a different experience by design.

post #32 of 51

Look, OP, you need to think about some basics. 

 

1) At your weight, you can forget any ski under 115. It won't float you at subsonic speeds. And you mention "wood," which I assume means "trees," rather than wood skis or, ah, other definitions. Unless you straightline trees, I assume you sometimes ski well below 40 mph.

2) If you want a ski that can hold in steep lines, chutes, at speed - these can often involve variable snow - you will want a stiff ski with some edge grip. That eliminates some of the rest of your list.

3) Liam's comment is true as far as it goes, but in actuality, a soft snow ski earns its stripes in chop, dust on crust, slush, all the real life stuff other than 2' of newly fallen snowflakes. And every ski is different for demanding snow.

4) You need to decide something about feel, as in, do you like a damp smooth feel - which I infer from your current skis - or do you want a light and lively feel - which doesn't seem likely if you decided against the 112RPC.

 

After you've thought about all of the above, your list becomes pretty small. Maybe the Squad 7, although it's nowhere near as stiff as the old Squads. Maybe the Cham 127, although it's a fun shape with a tail people either love or hate, and your ownership of the the Stockli and Dynastar makes me doubt you'd like a fun shape. The BG has the same issues; it's a reverse-reverse up front this year. Maybe the Turbo, but there are better Moments for what you want. The others (except cannot speak to White Dots) aren't even close.

 

May I suggest you take a look at these: 

 

Kastle BMX128, Blizzard Bodacious, Moment Jaguar Shark, PMGear 191 Fat, ON3P Wrenegade. They'll hold a seriously steep line in soft variable or deep at any speed you'll ever want to reach, but can tolerate moderate speeds and tighter quarters under a good skier.  

post #33 of 51

I would suggest reading my review of the 191 BG. There are some misnomers that seem to get repeated.

 

Namely that while it does have pintail, and reverse sidecut features. It does not ski like either of those in conditions that you would look to charge in. It's extremely stable when going fast, but loose and turny at low speeds.

post #34 of 51

Plenty of good skis out there.  For a charger ski I really liked the Helldorado.  My powder ski is the 112RP, but I like and appreciate a playful ski that has edge hold and can go fast when pushed.   For charging through crud I have other skis in the quiver.  If you ever ski trees seriously, you will want some tail rocker, it makes a huge difference.  

post #35 of 51

the 112 is an awesome tree ski in soft/powder conditions!

post #36 of 51
OP-

beyond does a pretty good job of looking at the various ski styles based on your previous skis.
 
i would also look at your own PERSONAL ski style, to determine which general class of ski i mention previously would make sense.  

-do you ski with high edge angle or bases flat?
-do you round your turn-finishes or push thru them?
-do you air turns over chop, carve thru it, or blast into it?
-do you carve across the fall line (ski flexed deep) or carve down it (ski less bent)? 
-do you ski neutral (upright, weight evenly on toes and heels) or forward (flexed into boots, weight on toes only)

 
 

etc.

post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

 

 

May I suggest you take a look at these: 

 

Kastle BMX128, Blizzard Bodacious, Moment Jaguar Shark, PMGear 191 Fat, ON3P Wrenegade. They'll hold a seriously steep line in soft variable or deep at any speed you'll ever want to reach, but can tolerate moderate speeds and tighter quarters under a good skier.  

 

That's a pretty helpful list for you to have a look at, Beyond is smelling what you are stepping in.  To add to this list of powerful directional fatty chargers, I would add the the BD Megawatt (Blister has a nice review), and last season's Line Influence 115 (this year's got softened a bit much for your perceived needs).  If you want to plow through bank vaults and machine gun bunkers on your way down the hill, I'm sure there are still 185 and 195 Line Motherships to be had as well.

 

Herr Olson just blew my mind with the degree to which we can specify what we want a ski to do for us; it sure does sound like we are in the golden age of ski making...

post #38 of 51

A guy your size that wants to charger powder ski should try a 189 Icelantic Keeper.  There are still deals on last year's models. The only differences with the 2012-13 model are the graphics and a factory stone grind, but if you buy a pair have the dealer flatten and wax them for you and you are good to go. A solid yet playful ride for a 200 lb. charger.

post #39 of 51
Thread Starter 

Again, thanks for all the well grounded advices, recomendations and toughts.

 

I think this post turned into a good knowledge base for many types & sizes of Bears looking for new skis this year. I have also found my own shortage of knowledge when it comes to describing all the caracteristics and behavior of a ski while in action. A lot to learn for me! 

 

In the beginning in 1974, when i got my first pair of alpineskis i recall the pure joy when school was out and we could go skiing.smile.gif  After only a few years the "gear mania" stepped in....Well, the cohises where a lot easier then... Slalom, GS or Downhill, thats it. For powder days i had some beasty 204cm GS skis with a 66mm waist....But we skied them hard and damnit we became good skiers to! I took part in the first "backcountry" wave in 1983,  we had some rather primitive touring set up, some had skins other used rope with tied knots under the skis to create drag. Plenty of DIY`s solutions in those years, but we climbed som magnificent mountain and skied some radical lines then. That led me to the trip of my life in 1984. I was invited to stay and ski with Patric Vallencant in Chamonix for 10 days. It was an undescribable experience...The Man, the mountains, the snow, the lines, the family, unmatched yet! Since then i have spent 3 full winters skiing in the Alps, and travel 1 or 2 weeks yeary to the European alps skiing. My local mountain is whereever i am living at the movent. 

 

For the slopes i will be using Stockli VXL 189cm, then i want another ski for the rest. I am thinking a mix of powder, tree skiing, charging. Maybe not so burly as initally thoght, maybe a hint playfull, but still stable.

You guys have certainly given me some "food for thoughts". If i buy the "wrong" one it is not the end of the world, ill trade it and take the loss without weeping....wink.gif

 

I wish you all a great, snowy winter !!!

post #40 of 51

Before you leave us, strongly suggest you take a shot at answering Marshal's questions. He could help you avoid even weepless trades. 

post #41 of 51
Thread Starter 

Sure. :-)  My last words was  not ment as a goodbye. Just a wishfull salute for the upcoming season to all skiers here.

 

do you ski with high edge angle or bases flat?  * High edge angle
-do you round your turn-finishes or push thru them? * Push thru
-do you air turns over chop, carve thru it, or blast into it? * Carve thru mostly/blast into
-do you carve across the fall line (ski flexed deep) or carve down it (ski less bent)? * Down mostly, depending on daily conditions
-do you ski neutral (upright, weight evenly on toes and heels) or forward (flexed into boots, weight on toes only) *  Mostly forward angled, but weight feels to be even toe to heel.

 

post #42 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine12 View Post

 

do you ski with high edge angle or bases flat?  * High edge angle

 

i would suggest getting a tight-enough radius to match the edge angle 20 to 25m, give or take.  

 

you would likely want to err on the size of wider rather than narrower as a powder/all mountain ski (i.e. 110-120 opposed to 105-115mm waist), since as you get higher and higher edge angles in soft snow you loose your ability to plane and maintain float.  

 


-do you round your turn-finishes or push thru them? * Push thru

 

i would suggest looking for something with low-ish tail rocker.  some, but not a TON.  just enough to keep the ski loose and able to cleanly drift.  

 


-do you air turns over chop, carve thru it, or blast into it? * Carve thru mostly/blast into

 

some tip taper (i.e. slightly pointy).  you want the shovel's leading edge to cut into the crud.

 

some blasting to the style would indicate a ski with metal construction or a dense core.  lots of skis offer this sort of construction here...  most Moment skis,  DPS hybrid skis, Blizzard Boadacious/cochise skis, Rossi squad 7 to name a few.  

 


-do you carve across the fall line (ski flexed deep) or carve down it (ski less bent)? * Down mostly, depending on daily conditions

 

i would still stick to the mid-range radius recommended above, and realize as you go bigger the radius you go, the more the ski will need to be under you and bases flat opposed to out at high edge angle on firmer snow or cruddy snow.  

 


-do you ski neutral (upright, weight evenly on toes and heels) or forward (flexed into boots, weight on toes only) *  Mostly forward angled, but weight feels to be even toe to heel.

 

I would suggest measuring the ski and mounting about -6.5 to -7cm from the center of the sidecut.  this will keep your ball-of-foot in the right place relative to the sidecut (assuming normal-ish size of foot - 26,27,28). go to -7.5 if you are a 29 or 30 shell, or -6 if you are smaller than a 26 shell.  
 

 

so yeah, just my .02 only, but hopefully that helps in some way.  

post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine12 View Post

Ditto that for the Gunsmoke, it will be to light and short for my size, although i have no doubts it is a great ski!! 

I guess i will spend the next couple of months fine reading the magazines who are out with their reviews of 2013 skis, along with any other input i find on the www. Sadly the local shops do not have any kind of "demodays" or demoskis for rent. It is thow very temping to lock inn on the Cham 127, and then add a 105-120mm waist charger of some kind in february when my trips to the Alps is due. 

May it snow ridiculously much all winter....snowfalling.gif

I'm not one to typically steer someone toward something I ski, but we're about the same size. Blizzard Bodacious might be your ticket. Great ski for anyone over 80-84kg.
post #44 of 51
Thread Starter 

@msolson: Whow, i am amazed at the knowledge you present !!! Your analyze of my skiing caracteristics will be extremly helpfull in deciding what model to choose. I am greatfull that you took the time to do this, and it will hopefully be usefull for others. This kind of analyzing is among the things i mentioned earlier, that i do not have the skils to do on my own. 

post #45 of 51
Thread Starter 

Ended up pullig the trigger on a set of Rossignol Squad 7 with Salomon Guardian. Now the winter may come ... :-) 

post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine12 View Post

Ended up pullig the trigger on a set of Rossignol Squad 7 with Salomon Guardian. Now the winter may come ... :-) 

I was just talking to a customer about the Squad7 yesterday.  

I'm curious to hear how you like it.  Please report back. 

post #47 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine12 View Post

Ended up pullig the trigger on a set of Rossignol Squad 7 with Salomon Guardian. Now the winter may come ... :-) 

I was just talking to a customer about the Squad7 yesterday.  

I'm curious to hear how you like it.  Please report back. 

+1, the Squad7 is on my list of deep snow skis that can also handle the tracked-out afternoon, hope to hear how they work for you.

post #48 of 51

The beauty of skiing magazine (small s) gear issues is not that they tell you what the best ski is, but that they narrow things down enough so that you aren't overwhelmed by choice. I find I can get it down to 2 or 3 skis by reading, which makes demoing a lot more manageable.

post #49 of 51
Thread Starter 

Will jump in with feedback as soon as conditions are good. So far ZERO snow....

post #50 of 51

Bump to the top.  Curious on your thoughts about your skis after you've got some time on them... 

post #51 of 51

Just thought I would add a short comment.  My take is the Blister review of the RPC is totally in error.  I am sure anyone who cares understands why by now.  But having now skied the RPC in just about every condition possible I am more impressed every day on every ride..   The Blister review  kept me from buying the RPC for a long time.  Sad I waited so long now.  It was a mistake.

 

I took them oput of the wrapper, mounted them. ironoed in a thick coat of wax and took them skiing without even scarping them.

 

Amazing all mountain, every day board imo.   And I have made a lot of comparisons.  Much as I disliked the 112  RP, I REALLY like the 115 RPC.

 

Much too my surprise actually as I wasn't expecting much.  

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