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Best Dryland Exercises for Good Skiers - Page 2

post #31 of 51

Personally I like to play volleyball in the off-season. It helps to develop "quick" feet and will give the entire body a workout

 

Karl
 

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post #32 of 51

Cool stuff! I like to see the more experienced guys and gals offering activities. Especially when it also includes which fitness classification(s) their activity helps develop.

post #33 of 51

One other aspect that relates to balance and proprioception but also has other psych/cognitive tie-ins is just a head for both exposure and for things like dropping in/committing/etc.  Today, e.g., I did in part a bit of slot canyon hike to a hot springs that involved some 4th-class climbing, and a few sections of using fixed ropes.  While that can give good general base fitness, relative to say skating I wouldn't say there was much balance crossover.  But, there's great crossover for dealing with exposure and other related issues while skiing.  Keeping a head for those types of things year-long can make a big difference when the snow finally starts to fill in in Dec/Jan.  MTB/skating/surfing, and different types of hiking and/or climbing, are all great for this.  At the gymnastic level, things like trampoline and waterramping likewise can help keep some aspects of this going through the summer.

post #34 of 51

I thought I’d describe a four specific plyo gym exercises that are not traditional “gym” lifting that I‘ve learned from watching high level athletes and have found to be beneficial.   Exercises like this have become part of my gym routine over the last few years, in addition to more traditional weight lifting like squats, front squats, and  power lifts, upper body, as well as lots of  core and TRX exercises and functional movement exercises, running and riding.  I don’t do these specific exercises all the time, and have other components to add to a gym routine as well.   It’s fun to be creative and to mix things up by adding less traditional and more dynamic movements to a gym routine.

 

1. Single leg jump ups onto Bozu with exercise band with handles – Attach middle of exercise band to wall or rack.  Put Bozu a few feet away and hold handles of band facing toward the Bosu and away from where the band is attached.  Single leg hop forward onto Bosu while extending both arms forward and stretching band.  Hold single leg landing on Bosu for 2 seconds. Bounce back onto floor on same leg and contract arms, then immediately jump back onto Bozu in motion described above.  Done in sets of 10.  This exercise helps fore/aft balance, core stability, proprioception, and quickness under stress.  It is easier with less resistance on the band, harder with greater resistance or a longer jump.  I find it helpful in simulating the corrections I do when skiing in terms of correcting forward and aft stance.

 

2. Cleans to a press with two dumbells on top of a Bozu.  This is a variation of a clean, but done with dumbells on a bosu.  Improves power and challenges balance with the unstable stance on the bosu.  Also good upper body exercise that uses core muscles.   Done in sets of 10 to 15 reps.   Harder with more weight or more reps.  I find this one helpful in terms of maintaining balance while using the leg muscles explosively, also good for shoulders, arms back and core.

 

3.  Vertical Jumps with medicine ball.  More traditional plyo.  Explosive vertical jump while lifting/pushing ball over head, soft and deep landing leading while contracting arms to hold ball at chest.  Done in sets of 10 to 15 or more.   I do this with deep squats and try to explode out of the squat.  Good for generating power after deep squat - something I don't do riding or running. 

 

4.  Lateral side to side jump with medicine ball.  More traditional plyo.  Single leg lateral jump landing on opposite leg - juom is lateral across about two yards.  Medicine ball moves toward hip of side being jumped toward.  As landing, the free foot comes behind landing leg.  Torso bends slightly at hip, keeping upper torso more vertical than the legs.  Like side to side jumps, but the ball adds some difficulty with greater weight.  Again, these are movements that are part of skiing I don't do much of running and especially biking - so are useful for pre-skiiing  prep.  these motions are similar to my skiers edge, but without the stability that the machine gives.


Edited by canadianskier - 8/27/12 at 7:47am
post #35 of 51

http://alpine.usskiteam.com/sites/default/files/documents/athletics/alpine/2011-12/documents/MastersNewsletterSpring%202011.pdf

 

The Wolcott article on Page 13 of that pdf is a good general summary.  Guenther Neumayr et. al. has a good series of articles and comments that help give some of the academic basis for why a good aerobic base is so important, which Wolcott covers anecdotally in his article.  https://www.thieme-connect.de/ejournals/html/10.1055/s-2006-923855  is a link to an abstract of a reply that is a decent summary, and helps make clear why the Austrians, and then the U.S. following their lead, have trained the way they have.  For both Wolcott and the Austrians, I think the context of ski racing is important to keep in mind -- they are talking about people who already know how to ski very well, and get lots of days in on the snow every year.  For recreational skiers, the motion and balance skills from crossover sports like MTB is in my view relatively more important, as these sports can keep them exposed to some of these demands year-round instead of only for the 5-20 days/year they get on snow.

post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

http://alpine.usskiteam.com/sites/default/files/documents/athletics/alpine/2011-12/documents/MastersNewsletterSpring%202011.pdf

 

The Wolcott article on Page 13 of that pdf is a good general summary.  Guenther Neumayr et. al. has a good series of articles and comments that help give some of the academic basis for why a good aerobic base is so important, which Wolcott covers anecdotally in his article.  https://www.thieme-connect.de/ejournals/html/10.1055/s-2006-923855  is a link to an abstract of a reply that is a decent summary, and helps make clear why the Austrians, and then the U.S. following their lead, have trained the way they have.  For both Wolcott and the Austrians, I think the context of ski racing is important to keep in mind -- they are talking about people who already know how to ski very well, and get lots of days in on the snow every year.  For recreational skiers, the motion and balance skills from crossover sports like MTB is in my view relatively more important, as these sports can keep them exposed to some of these demands year-round instead of only for the 5-20 days/year they get on snow.

 

Thanks for the articles, but the link to the second one in thieme requires a password

post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post

 

Thanks for the articles, but the link to the second one in thieme requires a password

Bummer, sorry.  I don't think I'm allowed to paste more than a quote from the whole thing.  It's an abstract of the actual reply, anyway -- just view it as gritty backup for what Wolcott says re aerobic base, and kind of a summary of why the Austrians started stressing all that spinning.

post #38 of 51

Another perspective on this subject is in terms of frequency, duration and intensity.  Many FIS level athletes at provincial level or higher do strength and power workouts 3 to 5 days a week for 2+ hour sessions, core 5 to 6 days a week, aerobic 2 to 3 days a week for 2+ hour sessions with some longer sessions weekly, speed drills several days per week,  interval sessions 2 days per week and stretching/flexibility nearly daily.  A lot to fit in without over-training or burnout.  These folks often do gym in the early morning and an aerobic activity later in the afternoon, and rack up huge hours of training time.  I asked a 17 year-old neighbor on the Alberta ski team how his summer has been, and his response was something like, "I get up at 5, work out until 8 or 9, go to work for a few hours, go home, ride my bike or run for a couple of hours, do my homework for summer school, go to bed and then do it all over again."  He rests on Sundays.  This schedule is not do-able for most of us. 

 

For my own training, in the late summer and fall I do a long ride (4+ hours) on one weekend day and try to get a hike in on the other weekend day.  On weekdays, I try go to the gym at least 1.5 hours 2 to 3 day per week and try to combine that with an hour ride, although my "real job" and family life doesn't always allow for as much time as I'd like.  Sometimes biking wins over the gym.  The other week day I do a 2+ hour road or mtb ride and rest at least one day.    Over the last several years, I felt quite ready when skiing starts.

 

In the spring, I do  a lot less gym work but do more road or mtb rides, and get in at least 2 interval sessions weekly (some at max intensity intervals), two easy intensity longer sessions (e.g., 2 hours), and long days on weekends at about 70%.  I do more long zone 1 - 2 rides in the early spring.  In the winter, biking is replaced by ski skating, ski touring, snowshoeing and dh skiing, but I still ride a wind trainer at least once a week, and I still try to get in the gym, although there is too much fun stuff to do and the gym isn't as frequent.  Spring tends more of a training challenge because of having competing goals.  One goal is to ski as much as possible, and the other goal is to start getting my body ready for biking.  Skiing usually wins until the snow gets bad.

 

I tend to use periodization more in the late spring and summer with respect to training for biking, with four week periods of increasing difficulty and dropping off intensity and/or time at the beginning of each period.   

post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post

Another perspective on this subject is in terms of frequency, duration and intensity.  Many FIS level athletes at provincial level or higher do strength and power workouts 3 to 5 days a week for 2+ hour sessions, core 5 to 6 days a week, aerobic 2 to 3 days a week for 2+ hour sessions with some longer sessions weekly, speed drills several days per week,  interval sessions 2 days per week and stretching/flexibility nearly daily.  A lot to fit in without over-training or burnout...

 

I tend to use periodization more in the late spring and summer with respect to training for biking, with four week periods of increasing difficulty and dropping off intensity and/or time at the beginning of each period.   

You're totally right about over-training risk.  For recreational skiers looking at dryland training, it's important for them to understand that elite athletes are themselve following, in general, periodized training cycles, and that even for a given week within a cycle they are not lifting hard all 3-5 days a week that they are in the weight room, and generally likewise not doing hard intervals the same week they are training max strength, say, for weights.  They also generally get at least some coaching supervision as to form and safety, and very few gyms, even "good" gyms, are able to provide this well.

 

For dryland exercises aimed at some ski-specific crossover, you can fit these into a variety of training programs.  Periodization is probably a separate thread, but for instance running gates on either a bike (you can do this on either a road bike or MTB, even in the driveway) or on inline skates or specialized ski simulation skates, can be anything from active recovery to intervals to fartlek depending on how you structure the gates and the duration of the activity. 

 

One example is simply doing school figures on skates for a warm-up, say high/low, inside skate turns, figure 8s, etc. then setting gates (which can be twigs or other inexpensive substitutes) that take roughly 45 seconds to run, and doing gates for 30 minutes followed by a relaxed 20 minute skate.  Say this is on a Thursday; Friday can be active rest, then Sat you can do another round, then hike/golf/trail run/ go for a roller ski/ go Nordic waliking.  Sunday you can throw in some double-poling to work the whole body, and maybe go for a bit of a varied skate where you are going up and down curbs, over speed bumps, and otherwise working varied paved terrain into your skate if suitable terrain is available.  That's already three days of training with some ski-specific technique and balance crossover  (enough for the brain to reall grab onto) and also conditioning benefit across all energy systems. 

 

For MTB, you can do much the same, but substitute pumptrack work for the double-poling to get the whole-body benefit. 

 

The most bang for training buck does come if this is part of a longer, designed training cycle, but that type of weekly approach also can work well without the periodization. 

 

There are specific on-snow issues that people have where breakthroughs can come almost wholly off-snow.  Let's say someone likes to recreationally dip into the half-pipe, but can't drop in.  They can learn this on a mtb or on skates with, of course, at least equal risk of injury as they have on-snow, but have 10 months time in most parts of the country to develop this movement skill, while also staying in shape.  Likewise for someone who can't really use their inside ski -- while the specialized types of skates are probably best for this, you can again train this on inlines or roller skis.  There will be some transition when you get back on snow, but the basic movements can be built during off season.

post #40 of 51

Another skill-enhancing exercise:  pump tracks have been mentioned before.  Get on a pump track, and learn to both make speed from pumping, and suck up speed as well.  The latter is the more ski-specific skill.  The fact that you will be learning this on a bike does not keep it from carrying over well to snow, and specifically to moguls.  When you are learning how to pump, it can be frustrating and generally will be very tiring.  Once you learn how to do it, you can do everything from hourlong pumpfests without using pedals at all, to intense intervals.  For ski carryover, you can do a variation where you pedal to build speed and then work on killing speed, perhaps choosing a specific place to stop entirely.  

 

Many bike parks also have beginner dirt jump lines that are kinda similar to pump tracks, and suitable for skilled MTB riders to try  on appropriate bikes even if they aren't that comfortable in the air.  Empty skateparks that allow bikes likewise often have features that you can work skills on.  Safety and proper etiquette are very important to be mindful of, and learn these before going. 

post #41 of 51

Another thing that is trainable:  front, middle and back of ski as slow to fast parts of the ski on firm snow, and within some bounds as the reverse in 3d snow.  One specific example of this that involves non-snow activtiies, if not dryland, is stand-up paddle boarding.  You can SUP on a lake with lots of motor boat traffic, or on the ocean or other large body of water with sustained winds, and see where your balance is when you get the board planing on a swell or boat wake, versus where you want to be when not planing.  It is very similar to learning to manage skis or a snowboard in 3d snow.  The feel of the planing and what happens with subtle balance shifts does carry over to snow with a fair degree of specificity.  Plus, it can be a lot of fun.   There are issues in interacting in an appropriate way with other users of the water when doing this, and explaining them is not rocket science but not really easy to cover in a sentence, so before trying this please make sure you know these issues and are respectful of otehrs.

 

As regards chances for confusion, working the firm snow version of this on skates also highlights a chance for confusion.  Skates don't really have a front of the boot and a shovel the way skis do.  Specialty training skates where you use ski boots are better, but you still don't have a shovel the way you do on skis.  This is less of an issue for modern skis in some ways, but it is still an issue. 

 

Another case where you can get specific crossover but also the chance for things to be a bit off is tramp training.  Trampolines can be great, but if you do a lot of the foundation work for learning spins on a trampoline, you risk ending up with "tramp style."  The reason is that you don't have the edge interaction with a sliding surface that you do on skis or snowboard. 

post #42 of 51

Rollerblade on nice blacktop.  No helmet.  I searched and searched but could not find it :(  Problem corrected.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_Z3PD4x_M

post #43 of 51

 

Try that with the video tool.

post #44 of 51
post #45 of 51

If you were to start today training a barbell back squat, to parallel, with solid form, good programming, and eating appropriately for this task combined with the other exercise you are getting, I am virtually certain you will ski better in 2013. You'll definitely be a lot stronger, and thus probably also be better at all the other activities your doing.

 

(If you are curious about a good starter program, check out Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe, and the associated website.)

post #46 of 51
My activities start with an aerobic base of cycling. I cycle to work every day and it's 25km each way. I also train with a cycle club once a week and that involves a lot more explosive work with sprints etc. To this I add some MTB and cross-country running in the forest. As already mentioned this adds some balance and "go for it" attitude.

Now that autumn is here I have two gym sessions a week with tbe young skiers in my club. That's a classic set up with a range of exercises - squats, jumps, hops, core, balance etc. A couple of evenings a week I do some strength training. I don't have any specific weight trainng equipment, i have improvsed by filling a backpack with about 20kg and either wearing it for some exercises or using it as a medicine ball. I will add some more weight as I progress.

I try to have one day a week rest!

Mark
post #47 of 51

I avoid the gym these days. It's faster for me to exercise at home (less waiting, no extra driving or hassle), and I mix it up with outdoor recreation so it's fun and less of something I'd call "work". That's sustainable for me and keeps it light-spirited. I'm an ex-ski racer and coach from years past (more than I will admit, haha), and used to teach ski fitness training in college. It was great to train very technically when I had racing objectives, but now, I just want to have a good time. :)

 

(I know "a good time" is subjective, btw, so definitely not knocking anyone who's doing lots of indoor race-specific training. Been there, and it can be effective without a doubt.) 

 

Here's what I do currently:

 

  • Trail/mountain running 1-1.5hrs 2-3x/wk:  intervals mixed in on 1 of the runs, zig-zag rock hopping at speed on one 1 run as well
  • Cycling (road or MTB) 2hrs 1x/wk:  rolling hilly terrain, a few sprints mixed in mid-ride
  • Martial arts class 1hr 2x/wk:  these include warm-up speed drills, burpees, plyo's, etc, then traditional form repeats
  • Dumbbell/kettlebell circuit at home 45min 2-3x/wk:  1 push day, 1 pull day, 1 light squat/calf-press/leap day
  • Ab/core workouts 30min 3x/wk at home: abs on bosu and yoga ball, unweighted, then 10lb med ball, then back snow angels, then side crunches
  • Stretching 15-20min 4x/wk minimum:  right after exercise or after hot shower before going to bed

 

I'm not as regimented as I used to be, I don't track, measure or monitor in any way (other than HRM on runs at times).

 

I try to keep it simple and enjoy myself. That's key. If it's not fun, it won't be sustainable for me. I just want to play as much as I can.

 

I'd have to say, of all the things I do, trail/mountain running seems to be the most beneficial for my skiing. The combination of stamina, balance, explosive speed thru sprints, and line selection while descending rocky terrain all add up to a very similar mental and physical challenge to skiing. Following it with stretching while warm, or a hot shower and stretch, keeps me limber enough so I can have a pretty comfortable RoM while skiing. I've done some hot yoga periodically (not enough, but want to do more), and that, my friends, is AWESOME. If I could do that more often, I've no doubt my RoM would improve even more--and you feel great after a session, very relaxed.

 

P.S. I used to train racers on inline skates w/tennis balls stuck on our ski pole tips. I'd set up courses w/styro cups with rocks in them and we'd run slalom courses down the street on gentle hills over and over. Inline skates are amazing for duplicating the motion and independent leg action of skiing. Not to mention using your eyes and developing smooth progression thru your line. And, you get the sensation of speed, it's fun, you can do it right in the neighborhood...And, if you'd like to mix things up, you can nearly duplicate tele skiing technique too, phenomenal dynamic exercise!

 

Have fun out there, gang. I've found if that's the goal, you'll be enjoying the pre-season time AND the on-snow time. You can't buy back time, so make it fun all along the way. 

post #48 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super D View Post

I avoid the gym these days....

 

I try to keep it simple and enjoy myself. That's key. If it's not fun, it won't be sustainable for me. I just want to play as much as I can.

 

I'd have to say, of all the things I do, trail/mountain running seems to be the most beneficial for my skiing. The combination of stamina, balance, explosive speed thru sprints, and line selection while descending rocky terrain all add up to a very similar mental and physical challenge to skiing. Following it with stretching while warm, or a hot shower and stretch, keeps me limber enough so I can have a pretty comfortable RoM while skiing. I've done some hot yoga periodically (not enough, but want to do more), and that, my friends, is AWESOME. If I could do that more often, I've no doubt my RoM would improve even more--and you feel great after a session, very relaxed.

 

P.S. I used to train racers on inline skates w/tennis balls stuck on our ski pole tips. I'd set up courses w/styro cups with rocks in them and we'd run slalom courses down the street on gentle hills over and over. Inline skates are amazing for duplicating the motion and independent leg action of skiing. Not to mention using your eyes and developing smooth progression thru your line. And, you get the sensation of speed, it's fun, you can do it right in the neighborhood...And, if you'd like to mix things up, you can nearly duplicate tele skiing technique too, phenomenal dynamic exercise!

 

Have fun out there, gang. I've found if that's the goal, you'll be enjoying the pre-season time AND the on-snow time. You can't buy back time, so make it fun all along the way. 

I agree re: the hot yoga, though for me that type of yoga in particular is not sustainable because it's not fun, though I do see real tangible benefits from going for just a few times every now and again. 

 

For the trail running and it's variations (Nordic striding, etc.) one point I'd add is that you can do this in non-mountain areas and still get those benefits.  Virtually everywhere has trails that you can flow over while running, along with steps, benches, and other elements that you can use creatively. 

 

For inline skating, it really does have great carryover both skill and conditioning-wise to skiing.  There are some points of difference, too, but most people can sort those out quickly.

post #49 of 51

I found what appears to be a really nice book about the Herminator's training methods.  Unfortunately it's in German and I wasn't able to find an English translation, so I'm struggling through it slowly with my limited German.  It's called "Das Hermann Maier Trainings-programm" by Heinrich Bergmuller and Knut Okresek, http://www.amazon.com/Hermann-Maier-Trainingsprogramm-Heinrich-Bergmuller/dp/3853262147/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354115830&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Das+Hermann+Maier+Trainings-programm

 

One thing I found out is that he certainly put in a lot of hours on his stationary bike: every day, and even when he was travelling.  He also did unusual exercises like juggling three heavy shot-put balls.  http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1680&bih=918&tbm=isch&tbnid=6TZHeyU0M8u5sM:&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/52445954%40N00/&docid=_kX1UN7aRJOQXM&imgurl=http://farm1.staticflickr.com/231/486921079_71756a29cf_m.jpg&w=240&h=170&ei=PC22ULn_FOacyQGJi4GAAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&dur=120&sig=115960726062440896380&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=192&start=0&ndsp=49&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:85&tx=150&ty=74&vpx=242&vpy=190&hovh=136&hovw=192

Wow!  That must be pretty hard....redface.gif

post #50 of 51

What do people think of workouts like these....

 

"Conditioning for Giant Slalom Skiing (Part 1 of 2)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnRRU17mfMw&feature=related

"Conditioning for Giant Slalom Skiing (Part 2 of 2)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5PGd-kYeIg

"30-minute ski conditioning workout" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnP88kWTKA

post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by renenkel View Post

What do people think of workouts like these....

 

"Conditioning for Giant Slalom Skiing (Part 1 of 2)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnRRU17mfMw&feature=related

"Conditioning for Giant Slalom Skiing (Part 2 of 2)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5PGd-kYeIg

"30-minute ski conditioning workout" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnP88kWTKA

Well, taking the agility ladder drills as one example, they might make sense as a supplement for, say, a racer who already gets 5-6 days/ week on snow during the season and who has a high training volume in general.  Depending on what the racer is working on at a given point in a periodization program.

 

For a rec skier, even one who skis a lot, there's much less crossover movement-wise than some of the other exercises that have been discussed.  So, unless someone simply likes that type of workout for either athletic reasons (they just find agility ladders fun) or social reasons (the instructor/trainer/etc. is hot, they like the social aspect of an exercise class or gym, and so are motivated to keep going back for that reason), they could do better doing inline skating, or trail running, or tennis for that matter. 

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