or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

DIN Settings

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Appologies if this post appears nieve. I'm just getting back into skiing atfer a 20 year lay off, so I am still trying to catch up on the new technology.

 

I grew up in England and look a lot a skiing trips to Bulgaria and Scotland growing up. But moving to Louisinana, getting married, having kids and busting up my knees doing martial arts put skiing on hold for a couple of decades.

 

The kids are old enough to ski now, knees are out of rehab and we are living in Arizona, so I am now getting a second life on the slopes. The first few times back on the slopes I didn't even realise that skis now have sidecut, I didn't remember it being this easy, or this much fun. Nice surprise!

 

Sorry to ramble, here is the question. Why can't I set my own DIN settings? Every reference I find to DIN settings says they must be done by a certified technician. Knowing what your DIN setting is can be found from a chart, are relatively simple to do yourself and the settings are clearly marked on the bindings. Is there something technicians do that I can't do at home with a screwdriver.  Do we really need to find a technician everytime we want to swap equipment with each other?

 

Just asking.

post #2 of 19

http://dinsetting.com/

 

DIN settings and forward pressure need to be set properly.  If you are able to do it right, go ahead. I do.  That said, having busted up your knees you may want a pro to do it for you.  Cheap insurance.

post #3 of 19

Its not hard, if you know how to do it.  As Snofan wrote, its the forward pressure that most people get wrong.  Since bindings are safety equipment..ie they are designed to release the skis to prevent injury in the event of a fall, its important they are done right.  Just because your skis "stay on" doesnt mean they are correct.  As for "must be done by a qualified technician" a lot of products come with the same warning.  People sue ski/binding companies, ski stores, etc all the time.  Its just companies doing what they can to protect themselves.

 

 

Just FYI, when you get your bindings done by a "binding technician", they will also (at least should) also check the binding is function correctly with a torque test, they will lube it, and replace the wear pads etc and make sure the bindings are generally still in good condition.  Yes you can do this all yourself...heck people build entire cars (hot rods etc) in thier garage, so no doubt you could do your bindings.  But people blow themselves up in their garages too....so you just need to be honest with yourself.  Do you know what you are doing?  Or faking it? 

post #4 of 19

I'm a DIY guy.  My dad brought us up saying "If a man made it, a man can fix it; I'm a man."  In fact, I just came in from doing the brakes on my Honda Pilot.  The irony is that I can go to a store, buy the parts and tools I need, even get helpful tips from the person behind the counter, but the maintenance manual for the vehicle with the exact torque settings and then go to my drive way and do the brakes with everything I need for a 4000+ # vehicle, that will be doing 80 on the highway tomorrow in traffic...with my wife and kids in it!  Try to find info on setting your own binding correctly so you can do 25 mph on a ski slope - lots of luck.

 

Spend enough time around here, and you'll eventually get several links to several manufacturer's tech manual.  Some you can just search the net and find.  You can also search and find the DIN chart.  It isn't hard to set them.  It isn't a complicated device.

 

HOWEVER, as mentioned, it takes special equipment to check that they are functioning as designed and will release at the appropriate setting.  Whether you set them or not, you should have them checked now and again (annually seems to be the norm) to make sure they are in spec.  I know I have one set of bindings with a toe piece .5 off.  It usually only costs $15 ish and when you by skis, they usually do this for you.

 

Have fun,

Ken

post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

I'm a DIY guy.  My dad brought us up saying "If a man made it, a man can fix it; I'm a man."  In fact, I just came in from doing the brakes on my Honda Pilot.  The irony is that I can go to a store, buy the parts and tools I need, even get helpful tips from the person behind the counter, but the maintenance manual for the vehicle with the exact torque settings and then go to my drive way and do the brakes with everything I need for a 4000+ # vehicle, that will be doing 80 on the highway tomorrow in traffic...with my wife and kids in it!  Try to find info on setting your own binding correctly so you can do 25 mph on a ski slope - lots of luck.

 

Spend enough time around here, and you'll eventually get several links to several manufacturer's tech manual.  Some you can just search the net and find.  You can also search and find the DIN chart.  It isn't hard to set them.  It isn't a complicated device.

 

HOWEVER, as mentioned, it takes special equipment to check that they are functioning as designed and will release at the appropriate setting.  Whether you set them or not, you should have them checked now and again (annually seems to be the norm) to make sure they are in spec.  I know I have one set of bindings with a toe piece .5 off.  It usually only costs $15 ish and when you by skis, they usually do this for you.

 

Have fun,

Ken

 

Thanks for the info Ken. I do have the manual for the bindings already and all the charts to work out the settings. I am obviuosly a DIY guy myself as well. I hadn't appreciated that the setting could be out of factory spec and that could be tested for by a Certified Technician with the right equipment. Good to know.

 

Is it reasonable to get my settings checked for accuracy, perhaps once a year at the beginning of the season, then make adjustments myself as required?

post #6 of 19

No matter how this will sound, but this is ridiculous. There's no "special equipment" needed, and anyone selling you this as reason why to do it at their shop is just trying to get you as paying client. DIN is industrial standard, and binding set to release at "pressure" for DIN 10 will also release at that "pressure" (or whatever is right English word for this thing). Every single binding complying with tests and certifications will release at exactly same level at DIN 10 (or DIN 5 or 3 or 15). DIN is not something what one could interpret one way and other one the other way. It's standard with exact numbers leaving no place for interpretations, and therefore no need for testing if DIN 10 will really release at certain "pressure".

So only thing that matters here is to set it to right DIN for your weight and abilities. Once you know this number, it really doesn't matter who dials this number... you or some sort of "certified" serviceman. And even getting this number is in most cases, even in service shops, pretty much same way as you would do it at home... how much do you weight? 80kg? Ok DIN 8 it is. Oh you are beginner? Ok DIN 7. No you are really good skier? Ok let's go to DIN 9. Thank you and goodbye.

post #7 of 19

IMHO, old bindings can wear and the torque at which a binding will release when set at DIN 7 (for example) may be different from the original calibrated release point.  The torque at which bindings release can be measured with a type of torque wrench.  HOWEVER,  so what?  You have to decide if you are happy with DIN 7 or if you want to increase it to 8 or reduce it to 6.   Those of us old enough to remember the days before DIN used to adjust the bindings based on twisting out of them, and now adjust bindings by starting at the chart value and adjusting up or down.  I wouldn't bother getting it calibrated, but I also remember skiing on non-releasable(aka bear-trap) bindings.  If you have no experience and want to be safe, I do recommend you get a used binding set up by a shop, provided they have something like the Vermont calibrator ( http://www.vermontskisafety.com/files/VERMONT-RELEASE-CALIBRATER.pdf ) and know how to use it, and actually do use it and not just charge you for using it (yes I'm a cynic, thanks to my experience with "professional" automotive services).

post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

No matter how this will sound, but this is ridiculous. There's no "special equipment" needed, and anyone selling you this as reason why to do it at their shop is just trying to get you as paying client.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

 

HOWEVER, as mentioned, it takes special equipment to check that they are functioning as designed and will release at the appropriate setting.  Whether you set them or not, you should have them checked now and again (annually seems to be the norm) to make sure they are in spec.  I know I have one set of bindings with a toe piece .5 off.  It usually only costs $15 ish and when you by skis, they usually do this for you.

 

Have fun,

Ken

 

primoz,

 

For clarity -

 

If you are referring to my statement above, I did NOT mean it takes special equipment to set the forward pressure or binding release.  The special equipment I was referring to is the equipment (that Ghost referenced also) used to verify what it is actually releasing at.  You stick your ski binding with boot in a machine that presses on the boot at a few different angles to see at what force it actually releases at.  My where set to 8 and released at 7.5.  No big deal but good to know.  You can then decided if you want to set your bindings at 8 and use the machine to set it or use Kentucky Windage and turn it up a little.

 

The special equipment to set is a screwdriver or two.

 

cheers,

 

Ken

post #9 of 19

Primoz,

 

I will add to the "clarity" what is on the DIN chart for a number and if you look at a work ticket, you start with an "Initial DIN setting", while the chart might be an "8", it is not always the final number, the binding still needs to get torque tested. Ghost goes into it above along with a link on one of the calibrating devices. 

post #10 of 19

The ski-tech guys at the demo shop where I work bench test the DIN settings on every ski in the shop's fleet at the start of the season. IMO this is done primarily for legal reasons in order to have physical evidence that every binding is in working order i.e. correctly calibrated. I will have to ask the guys this year if they actually find any rejects this fall.

 

Of course, calibrations being off doesn't mean that the binding won't work, but as Philplug eluded to, in order to achieve a true "8" the reading on the toe or heel might need to be set at 8.5 or maybe 7.5.

 

However the whole DIN system of determining the correct Din binding setting is just an estimation as it starts with the skier choosing the appropriate Skier Type and then slotting in the skier into a weight/height range within the DIN Chart. Lots of times with Type III skiers they request a higher DIN than the DIN Chart suggests. With myself, I ski a lot and am above average in leg strength for someone my age, so when I turned 50 I did not go one line up the DIN Chart (usually means going down one DIN number) like the Chart says. But I did drop down a DIN number when I turned 60. My point is that finding the right release setting on any binding sometimes means playing around with the numbers a bit.

post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

I'm a DIY guy.  My dad brought us up saying "If a man made it, a man can fix it; I'm a man."  

 

I generally prefer what I believe Aristotle first said, "If a man made made it, another man can fix it; I'm a man...who will pay another man to fix it."

...coulda been Shakespeare, though.

post #12 of 19

Sorry for a slight hijack.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skierish View Post

 

I generally prefer what I believe Aristotle first said, "If a man made made it, another man can fix it; I'm a man...who will pay another man to fix it."

...coulda been Shakespeare, though.

 

Actual conversation I had with my then 80 year old dad when I had first bought a used Ford 555 backhoe -

 

Dad - "Now you need to learn hydralics."

 

me -  (Knowing that the smallest bolt on this thing was 1" and I knew very little about hydralics)  "No.  I only need to learn the telephone number of the guy that's going to fix it for me.  It'll cost me $5k just in tools!"

 

Dad- "You're no son of mine."

 

Granted  he was teasing (mostly) but that's how he feels about this stuff.  If you don't know how to do something; read a bunch of books (he recommends 5) and you learn enough to go out and try a few things and it will come together.

 

 

beercheer.gif

Ken

post #13 of 19

I agree that with time, things change, but considering nowadays it's almost impossible to buy normal recreational skis without bindings, it's pretty hard to say anyone is skiing with so old bindings :) Well... at least majority of people I see in ski resorts doesn't use 10 years old equipment, and at least with a bit higher level equipment, 2, 3 or 4 years doesn't do much. Especially considering how much bindings are actually used in this time. :)

As far as fairly new bindings goes, there's no problem with that, and they do release at right number. As I said, DIN is industrial standard, similar to currently more known, and much more international ISO (DIN is abbreviation for German Institute for Standardization (Deutsches Institut für Normung), and was firstly intended for German use only, but later on adopted through Europe). With this, things are pretty clear. If you want to conform to this standard, it means binding needs to release at exactly right torque (thanks for letting me know right term for this :)). Not at 1, 3, 10, 50Nm higher or lower, but at exact one (in standard it probably also say what's margin). If you don't conform to this specifications, you are basically not allowed to use this term.
So if we consider bindings are (fairly) new, and they didn't change their mechanical specifications due age/use, there's really no need for testing torque values.

 

PS: I understood what you guys meant with "special equipment", and I didn't consider screwdriver as that :)

PS #2: I also agree one or the other way calculated DIN is not final number, and it depends on much more then just that. Afterall, DIN 13 or 14 doesn't get out of any "DIN calculator" yet I still use it... and it still releases when needed :) But my point was, that with my experiences, pretty standard procedure for majority of ski services here is setting DIN the way I described. Which means not really much more then checking your weight and sending you away. But I do hope and wish, this is related just to here, and you guys on other side of ocean, gets better and more professional service :)

post #14 of 19

Most people think DIN is based on height/weigth and ability but not that many people know that BSL (boot sole length) in is also very important in calculating the appropriate DIN. A longer BSL means the binding has more leverage on holding the boot in place while shorter BSL has the opposite effect. Online DIN calculators will usually incoporate BSL into their formulas

post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

So if we consider bindings are (fairly) new, and they didn't change their mechanical specifications due age/use, there's really no need for testing torque values.

 

 

We have seen an  inconsistency in testing bindings old and new. That is why we test them. 

post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

I agree that with time, things change,

 

As far as fairly new bindings goes, there's no problem with that, and they do release at right number. As I said, DIN is industrial standard, similar to currently more known, and much more international ISO (DIN is abbreviation for German Institute for Standardization (Deutsches Institut für Normung), and was firstly intended for German use only, but later on adopted through Europe). With this, things are pretty clear. If you want to conform to this standard, it means binding needs to release at exactly right torque (thanks for letting me know right term for this :)). Not at 1, 3, 10, 50Nm higher or lower, but at exact one (in standard it probably also say what's margin). If you don't conform to this specifications, you are basically not allowed to use this term.
 

 

Badwolf:

 

Primoz makes some good points:  This is all true. 

 

But to meet DIN or ISO or whatever, you only need to show you have some form of systems and processes to ensure you final product meets spec.  IT doesnt mean you need to check every binding spring going out the door.  Far from it, the actual number will vary based on manufacturer, but I would suspect it would be 3-5%.  So checking bindings when new is a good idea.  Having said that, I would be surprised if almost all of the new bindings were not accurate.

 

After that, is it worth checking?  Probably not.  I dont know anyone who does.  Will the binding change over time?  Likely, as the spring fatigues, but this will provide a lower value, and it is would be a gradual decrease over time. I suspect this why you see guys turn their bindings up over time.  Its because the spring is getting weaker.  Of course, most people I know tend to have new gear every year, or at least every second so this is not much of an issue.

 

Its a good point thou, that you might be a 7 on the DIN chart...its not a big deal if your binding has dropped to a 6...as lets face it, "7" is a extremely "round about" figure.  What is a type III skier? or a type II skier?  How much vitamin D and calcium do you get? (In case you are wondering where that comes from the orginal DIN numbers were based on bone strenght...bindings were designed to prevent broken legs), how fast do you ski? etc etc etc.

 

Provided you dont let your bindings get backed with road salt and gravel, they are pretty maintenance free.  Having said that, they can get damaged, (I see missing friction plates when looking at ski racks all the time), so just be mindful of that.

 

Special tools?  Screw driver.

post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thanks for all the replies today guys, great information.

 

Reading all the "DIN" information sites, there seemed to be a secret society of ski technicians, with ancient knowledge of the equipment, only privy to the chosen few. But when I printed out the factory manual, it all looked pretty easy to a guy with screwdriver who can read a chart. The only variable seems to be the capability of the binding to fall "out of spec".

 

I think I would be happy to get my gear professionally checked once a year for "accuracy". That way if I eat a big breakfast, forget my calcium suppliment and am having an off day on the slopes, I can change my DIN on the fly with confidence.

 

Do Ski Technicians have a secert handshake?

 

BW

post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

Do Ski Technicians have a secert handshake?

 

BW

 

Yes...it usually involves the subtle and secret transfer of $40-50.

post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

Yes...it usually involves the subtle and secret transfer of $40-50.

I thought it was a case of beer, but wait that's what gets your gear to the front of the tuning line.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs