2013 Magazine Ski Tests

Thanks for that link TC-great info!!

Glad to see some of the BD skis up on that list. I've always thought they made a great product, and it's good to see some recognition!

That magazine has good taste IMO. 

The Bones sit on top of both of those lists.  Impressive. I don't know much about the Belle to Belle but some of my strongest female ski buddies have been rocking the Volkl Auras for 3 years now and REALLY rave about those skis.  Given how they rip down the mtn on

em..I'm sold.  Thanks for sharing, TC. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekchick 

The Volkl Aura has been strong for strong skiers for some time and I don't expect that to change any time soon, in part because its gained a following that doesn't go away, much like its male counter part the Mantra.

 

Just a comment about the inevitable comparison between the Mantra/Aura and the Bonafide/Samba. Don't have a horse in this race, since I own neither at the moment, but find each appealing in its own way. And I honestly don't think that Volkl's entry hangs around because of its marketing or following, implying the sort of people who still think that BMW's are driver's cars. 

So IMO this is one case where "traditional" should not be taken to been "old fashioned" or "inferior." Nor should "best in show" be taken to mean "trendy." These sets of skis offer two different ways of turning. I'd guess it all boils down not to some mythical qualities of flipcore vs. pre-curved cores, but to the tails. If you like a tail that intuitively follows the arc the front of the ski sets, and allows you to switch between types of snow without much adjustment of your technique, then Blizzard makes your fat skis. If you like a tail that requires some attention, but that will hold until you tell it to let go, then Volkl makes your skis. And I'd guess that the Bone will for the foreseeable future get slightly better marks than the Mantra simply because more skiers who test them are used to rockered tails with a more forgiving release, and more soft snow versatility, whatever their limitations. It's interesting, though, that the movement in many quarters is toward less and less tail rocker. Wonder if the Bonafide 2015 will have a slightly flatter tail, and the Mantra 2015 a touch of tail rise, and then the differences will be trivial. My .02. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyond 

Just a comment about the inevitable comparison between the Mantra/Aura and the Bonafide/Samba. Don't have a horse in this race, since I own neither at the moment, but find each appealing in its own way. And I honestly don't think that Volkl's entry hangs around because of its marketing or following, implying the sort of people who still think that BMW's are driver's cars. 

 

So IMO this is one case where "traditional" should not be taken to been "old fashioned" or "inferior." Nor should "best in show" be taken to mean "trendy." These sets of skis offer two different ways of turning. I'd guess it all boils down not to some mythical qualities of flipcore vs. pre-curved cores, but to the tails. If you like a tail that intuitively follows the arc the front of the ski sets, and allows you to switch between types of snow without much adjustment of your technique, then Blizzard makes your fat skis. If you like a tail that requires some attention, but that will hold until you tell it to let go, then Volkl makes your skis. And I'd guess that the Bone will for the foreseeable future get slightly better marks than the Mantra simply because more skiers who test them are used to rockered tails with a more forgiving release, and more soft snow versatility, whatever their limitations. It's interesting, though, that the movement in many quarters is toward less and less tail rocker. Wonder if the Bonafide 2015 will have a slightly flatter tail, and the Mantra 2015 a touch of tail rise, and then the differences will be trivial. My .02. 

I own several pairs of both Bones and Mantras............. have skied and loved the Mantras East and West for years................ I bought the Bones last year........... skied them............ now my Mantras are "Rock" skis or for sale to the highest bidder........... Old Ferrari vs New One.......... both great but no comparison............. IMHO :)

hard to argue with a back-to-back win for both the bone and chise' its not been done for a while by others. The Samba seems destined to become the Womans top dog too. Kudo's to the team. Too bad Arnie isn't around to bask in the glory

Nordica seems to be winning over the hearts and minds across the board as well.  The Helldorado and hell and back are also again highly rated by the rags as are the fire arrows.  I am bummed that I missed out on the fun testing last season. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekchick 

There are definitely people for each of these skis and I don't want to harsh the mellow of someone who loves their Aura/Mantra..........

Two different skis for sure, and appealing to a variety of customers. 

Very true and well said.............. My Mantras are still glued to my Thule box every day I go skiing.............. and if conditions are sketchy............. I wouldn't want to be w/o them........... I do love my Mantras! :)

I can't argue with someone's preferences but I always looked at the Bone as a "new and improved" Mantra. it has all that the Mantra has with more....   just my .02

I think that was more of a "add some rocker and it will ski better" logic that many of the larger brands had in their marketing studies.  They didn't understand that it affected the how the rest of the ski performed once you changed that aspect of the ski.  The indies took skis and integrated the rocker into the design much better IMHO.  Although its hard to call blizz' an indie, I think the design team was given that freedom and with it came the Flip core desing.  The other big guys have caught up as evidenced by Atomic and Nordi's new lines  (among others) but the envelope is still being pushed and tweaked. This is the fun part of it all. 

Looking at everything out there (& believe me... that takes a while) there's really only a few BC skis that will get you up the mountain AND instill confidence while blasting through crud on a spring day, bagging a gnarly 55 degree couloir or holding an edge at 45MPH on a blue sheet. Most BC skis go up quite well & many will get you down as long as you’re in "Teton Ultralight", some nice wind-pack or creamy corn. That being said... few will do everything I described well & even fewer without that "tip chattery, torsionaly flimsy, squirrelish feel" most light & ultra-light BC skis give you. Introduce a Volkl Mantra into the mix & you've got a winner. It may be smallish underfoot (98 last check) but its box construction, traditional camber & slightly rockered tip make this a racetiger for the pow. The tips still float well & if you keep your speed up sinking isn't an issue... it's no Kuro but then again nothing I've seen over 120 can go through a tight aspen grove at good speed without leaving you picking bark out of your incisors nor can they let you drop into Corbit's Couloir without having to worry about breaking the sound barrier on the run-out. Thoughts? 

Not really on your wavelength, but I have skied Corbit's Couloir before and I would not hesitate to jump in with a pair of Ski Logik's Ullr's Chariot. That is not their specific back country ski, and there maybe better choices in their lineup. The Chariot is a 101mm underfoot with a turny 15m radius and it holds like an ice pick and turns like a slalom ski, albeit a wide one.

I really like where Nordica is going with their skis. I skied on the Radicts last season almost everyday(The worst season to rock huge powder skis) I loved them but were hell on my legs. I got ski the Patron at SIA and pretty much fell in love with it but felt that it was too soft. At the end of the season I attended a demo day at Snowbird and the Nordica Rep showed me the Helldorado. I hoped on it and never wanted to get off. I ended up breaking my boots which ended my day but can't wait to get a pair of helldorados for this season.

The ski shop I work for decided to bring in Blizzard this season so I can't wait to give those a shot and the influence is a great ski as always! I also got to ski on the Rossi Squad 7 the was an impressive ski! I was always afraid to try the s7 or super7 because I thought they would be too soft. The Squad7 felt super solid and was a dream through the crud and groomers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug 

I think they fixed the Mantra till it broke. The old Red ones and white ones were more balanced skis and skied better than the new ones. They added early rise to the new one but that didn't fix the problem, the tail. It is too stiff. Go into your local shop, flex a Mantra...really flex it, very unbalanced. Now, flex a Kendo..much nice. The Kendo is a better Mantra. Now, just after flexing the Kendo, flex a Kenja. Tell me the Kenja is not stiffer, does not make sense. 

I liked the old Mantra, and love the new one.  I hated the Kendo.  I've never learned much from flexing a flat ski in the shop, other than the truly obvious.  Can you really tell the Mantra is unbalanced by flexing it?  And does that really translate to on the snow experience?

If that translates so well then it's a skill I'd love to learn.  I could stop wasting so much dough on demos!

I own the Bones and Demoed the Mantras on a hard snow day.  Had I never skied the Blizzards I would have liked he Volkls but I found them to be somewhat "planky" feeling in comparison.  They were confidence inspiring at high speeds and carved about as nicely, just not as playful and easy,

Hmmm.  The one arguable hole in my quiver these days is the ~100mm underfoot category -- I go straight from the 87mm Elan m777 to the 116mm Moment Bibby Special.  Might have to demo some of the options from Jim and Phil.

In order to dial in my (white/samurai sword graphics) Mantras I had to drop down a size and decrease my ramp angle w/ a thin plexi plate under my toe piece (Marker Comp 14.0 bindings).............. I'm 6' 200lbs ........... I skied them in a 177..........yes, very short......... and they were perfect for east coast all conditions and west mostly but used the Goats for anything over a foot. I had the older red Mantras in 184 and they were just too planky feeling and just difficult to maneuver east and west, very tiring ski in that length.............. once dialed in, my 177's were great especially in tight spots........... the two different lengths had completely different personalities............. in the shorter version the Mantra's became "Playful" and continued to be complete crudbusters......flash the tail edges for just a moment and that stiff tail just pops you into the next turn........ a really nice experience and a really great ski............. I never skied the newer Mantras...........

The  flex of the Bones throughout the ski is just unbelievable............Blizzard just nailed it when they built this ski.............. wish I could be more descriptive but all I can say is it just feels right in every combo I throw at it from flat out speed, to moguls to quick turns............ it sits there calmly and says........... "May I please have some more........ Sir! " ( movie was: Oliver :)

Notice a theme here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraJim 
In the particular case of the Mantra it became apparent in testing that it did not finish the turn as well as other skis. It took either more effort or more speed or both. ... it became apparent that the tail is much stiffer than anything else in category. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwjg 

... I found them to be somewhat "planky" feeling in comparison.  They were confidence inspiring at high speeds and carved about as nicely, just not as playful and easy,

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailor322 

As a L3 certified instructor my impression is that the every day western skier skis fast and on a very flat ski. Look for a soft ski with little or no tail stiffness.... If you ski on the edge and prefer to lay a rail in the snow than than extra stiffness in the tail is an asset for a number of reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yo Momma 

In order to dial in my (white/samurai sword graphics) Mantras I had to drop down a size ...and they were perfect for east coast all conditions and west mostly but used the Goats for anything over a foot. ...in the shorter version the Mantra's became "Playful" and continued to be complete crudbusters......flash the tail edges for just a moment and that stiff tail just pops you into the next turn........ a really nice experience and a really great ski............. I never skied the newer Mantras...........

IMO, the idea that the Mantra's tail is not "too stiff," in absolute terms, is meaningless. It's not as stiff as your average 75 mm race carver's, and it's soft compared to a GS ski. I think that the "too stiff" camp is really saying something more ideological: That it's inappropriately stiff for the terrain a 95-100 mm ski is supposed to be aimed at: Soft snow, lumps, variable terrain and conditions, crud. Consider one of the longest running theme around here for some: "Wide carvers" are wasted width. No one wants to use a 88+ ski for carving hardpack. They're imbalanced. And so on. Anybody recall the grief Hellcats used to get? Or how long they were on closeout at Start Haus? 

But I wonder if that's missing the point. And is geocentric to boot. Also anti-quiver. To wit:

What if the Manta's the last wide carver standing for a skier who actually wants one some of the time? And who may own more than one ski? Those of us who haven't been put away in houses for the skiing insane often lurk in the southern Rockies, the east or the midwest, at resorts where the freshies are gone by lunch and at many times of the year, the snow in the trees gets too thin for skiing. You know, places where there are thaws. Places where the snowfall is unpredicable. (OK, this is sounding like Squaw.) I'll take it out by adding: places where man-made is becoming the rule. Which if you think about it, can produce the oddity of more snow on the runs than in the woods or above the lifts. In the east, it's not uncommon to be skiing on a mix of 3" crud over hardpack while the woods are a nice mottled white and brown. Unless you enjoy rock hard refrozen bumps between very tight trees, you stick to the in-bounds between storms. If you manage to hit a big pile of sugar first thing before they've moved it around, all the better. 

Many skiers under these conditions actually like higher edge angles. We carve, y'see. We may seek a planted, predictable carve at the last 1/3 of the turn before release to save our bacon. Or just really enjoy what there is to enjoy. If any of this sounds familiar, incidentally, you might be recalling the last time you watched skiers in Europe. Where, oddly enough, the Mantra is very popular.

I realize that this is like saying that cars should still have mechanical links between driver and car, or that a stick is more enjoyable than an auto. What am I, stuck in the 1950's? MGT wannabe? All that new stuff makes a car easier and more fun. It won't punish you so fast for losing attention. It won't tire you out as fast. And the car's probably going to do quicker laps on a track because it doesn't rely so much on flawed drivers. So I'm curious: Is the Mantra a worse ski than the Bonafide because it's simply more focused and demanding? I'd say yes if the more demanding ski didn't give you anything extra back for the extra demands. But I have yet to see a review that claims the Bone will carve harder and more precisely on hardpack, for instance. Or slice crud over refrozen. I'd be very very surprised if it can. It's not supposed to. It's optimized for different conditions, and seems to rule there. All good. That's why I question SJ's "as well." I think he means, "as easily." Not synonymous, actually. I'd also say that there are better flat tailed skis than the Mantra for mixing together hardpack and soft snow. Kastle makes several of them, for instance. 

Just arguing a place for skis focused on solving a certain set of problems cold, rather than doing everything well. Given the sheer number of Mantras out there, many under the boots of very good skiers, often AT, and given the continued high marks they get from most reviewers (and sorry guys, but if you get excited about the numerical differences between first and third or fourth place in a ski test, you're overthinking things), hard to buy the idea everybody likes them because, well, they're supposed to. 

Sorry for the interruption. Now back to the regularly scheduled main event, getting ready right here in our octagon cage: BULLIZZZARDD MANIA!!