BAD: Freeskier magazine encouraging environmental damage  

This type of training isn't anything new at all.  The dry land instructor training camps have been doing this exact same exercise (less the front flips) for decades, probably longer.  Ski race and bump ski teams also do this type of training every off season.

Really?   Up in arms about some people doing hop turns on a cleared slope?  Would you object to a high school cross country track team training on the same terrain?  Ya, they left a few foot craters, hardly the end of the ecosystem.  People have been doing this since the dawn of competitive skiing everywhere.

Doesn't scree basically amount to a field of erosion? I'm all about protecting the environment from stupidity, but this doesn't seem like a big deal.

When I think of scree, I imagine something a lot rockier than that sandy slope those guys were playing on.  Somehow I doubt this will vastly improve the popularity of rapidly descending steep slopes with poles,  I used to do this many years ago; no risk that I'll resume that activity.

There are some interesting variations:

Rock Skiing

I suffered a broken ankle participating in similar foolishness when I was a 19yo. 

Now I realize I was doing it all wrong...  If I had only had a role of good ol' Duct tape.

JF

Well, if they actually put in a "Skree Lift" like Miller jokingly suggests and they end up with 100ks of skreer visits, then there might actually be some environmental damage. Otherwise, a few people doing gravity assisted dryland training is nothing new nor very damaging imo.

As far as saying on hiking trails to prevent enviro damage, again your are likely dealing with the impact of100ks hikers that needs to be managed by everyone using the same trail.

Also, there's usually not a trail through scree, but hikers/climbers do still cross and climb it when necessary.

Jeff, You actually do make a good point.  It is not the first time that ski magazines/movies & such have encouraged irresponsible behavior. 

There are areas in southern Utah where you are not allowed to even take a step off of the designated trail, due to possible damage of micro-biotic soils.

Thanks,

JF

I think the OP needs to lighten up a little.  He appears to presuppose that humans are not part of the natural environment.  Moving scree and changing the erosion patterns is not "damaging" the environment, it is simply interacting with it, and I believe we all get to do that.  Even if the ski-scree tracks are visible for years that does not necessarily constitute a negative change in the natural world.  Why is it that every animal in the world gets to poop whenever and wherever they want, but somehow when humans do it in the wilderness it is viewed as pollution?  I am certainly not in favor of raping the countryside, but these guys aren't exactly strip mining, they are simply using the natural world in a rather unique way.  Is the "environment" a better place if we all stay home and cease interacting with it?  When is interaction positive, neutral or negative, or is there even a distinction?

The OP states "I am angry because this will cause damage to the environment through erosion."  Erosion is a natural process that we are all part of. Every step and breath you take has an impact on the environment, and arbitrarily deciding which impacts are "negative" is a rather futile endeavor. It is good to have rules for things like pooping, and keeping vehicles and hikers on trails to preserve the natural landscape in high use areas, but denying folks the freedom to move a little scree around in the name of fun is not going to save the planet from ruin by erosion.  It looks pretty dangerous, so the video shows natural selection at work.

The stuff in the video is considered "scree"?  Really?  Whenever I think of scree fields, I think of something like this (North Tripyramid, NH):

Or this (Mt. Adams, NH):

What's in the video looks pleasurable to hike on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scree

The pictures you posted are of talus slopes.  Scree is much small rocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrundy 

Dam kids anyhow,whats this world coming too:mad

Hey you kids, get offA my dirt!

SRSLY though, I'm all for "leave no trace" and stick to established trails in BFE.  Folks I've done this with did it on ski resort property or other areas that already have some moderate foot traffic historically.

If you ask me, seems like a good way to shatter the ankles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff2010 
I am angry because this will cause damage to the environment through erosion.

Are you serious??? You are fine with building lifts up to mountains, you are fine having heavy machinery up in mountains, you are fine driving with car up to mountains to reach your favorite skiing spot, and you are worried about "damage to the environment through erosion" when someone will jump down the mountain????

PS: Check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw and think about it. He's not so far off when you look a bit more general on all this ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by primoz 

Quote:

Are you serious??? You are fine with building lifts up to mountains, you are fine having heavy machinery up in mountains, you are fine driving with car up to mountains to reach your favorite skiing spot, and you are worried about "damage to the environment through erosion" when someone will jump down the mountain????

 

PS: Check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw and think about it. He's not so far off when you look a bit more general on all this ;)

 Ya i agree just didnt want to say it.

 Have you huged a tree today??? I just stacked about 20 of um in the wood shed to keep me warm.That cant be good either,but momma likes it warm

 and you know the ole saying.HAPPY WIFE HAPPY LIFE

Can anyone name the screeers? How about the name of the screeresort? That video is about 20 years old, think there is any sign of their scree-tracks?

Sup

I watched the video from the OP and I think that any animal would do just as much damage, if it could be even referred to as 'damage'.  Wind and rain would surely erase any tracks in the sand almost immediately.  Cutting trees for ski trails is way worse. 

I am the skier in the top video in Cirquerider's post.  That was when I was 18 or 19 years old I guess.  A friend of mine filmed it and has sent it in to some TV shows and stuff (sometimes giving me credit for the skiing but most of the time not).  It's on that friend of mine's youtube channel.  I haven't put it on my channel 'cause I like snow skiing better : )  I still have scars so I think I hurt myself a lot more than I hurt the environment.  On a related note, the cliffs I was on were not natural cliffs in the first place.  They were dug by machines. 

From mudfoot: 

You guys ever watch that show "Ancient Aliens" on the History Channel?  The subject of it is referred to as the "ancient astronaut theory" or something like that.  It argues that man was likely created by aliens... saying we have no place being here and don't fit in on earth in any way.... etc. etc..  Remember how the native americans supposedly thought that the white man was God when he came accross the oceans on ships?  One thing the show suggests is that accounts in religions where gods descended on "silver clouds" could have been spaceships.  It's a pretty interesting show really. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake Saunders 

...On a related note, the cliffs I was on were not natural cliffs in the first place.  They were dug by machines...

Looking at that took me back to road cuts in the Catskills, though the ones there were a lot smaller.

Scree can be fun, talus can be dangerous but fun for training balance while trail running.  Even in areas with no snowpack and little precip, scree tracks do self-erase after a few seasons. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecimmortal 

Really?
You honestly think that people will start doing this?

Oh yea, you can bet on it!

What do you think mountain biking was like 20-30 years ago? It's just a bunch of people on bikes riding in the woods anywhere they please. That was fine when there're only a handful of them doing it. As the popularity of the "fun" spreads, you got herds of bikers who skid their rear wheel all over the mountain side! Did anyone say erosion?

In the end, mtn bikers are confined to mtn bike trails and parks. Because the environment simply can't support the number of riders who wants to ride in the woods. If the dry land skiing gets more popular, that's how it'll end up -- confined to specific slopes! Though that really isn't such a bad thing. Why don't ski resorts run their lift and rent "rock skis"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by at_nyc 

Oh yea, you can bet on it!

 

What do you think mountain biking was like 20-30 years ago? It's just a bunch of people on bikes riding in the woods anywhere they please. That was fine when there're only a handful of them doing it. As the popularity of the "fun" spreads, you got herds of bikers who skid their rear wheel all over the mountain side! Did anyone say erosion?

 

In the end, mtn bikers are confined to mtn bike trails and parks. Because the environment simply can't support the number of riders who wants to ride in the woods. If the dry land skiing gets more popular, that's how it'll end up -- confined to specific slopes! Though that really isn't such a bad thing. Why don't ski resorts run their lift and rent "rock skis"?

Considering the video referenced in the OP is 20-30 years old your argument is invalid. Mtn Bikers have historically been better trail stewards as well. They just have a less powerful lobby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by at_nyc 

Oh yea, you can bet on it!

 

What do you think mountain biking was like 20-30 years ago? It's just a bunch of people on bikes riding in the woods anywhere they please. That was fine when there're only a handful of them doing it. As the popularity of the "fun" spreads, you got herds of bikers who skid their rear wheel all over the mountain side! Did anyone say erosion?

 

In the end, mtn bikers are confined to mtn bike trails and parks. Because the environment simply can't support the number of riders who wants to ride in the woods. If the dry land skiing gets more popular, that's how it'll end up -- confined to specific slopes! Though that really isn't such a bad thing. Why don't ski resorts run their lift and rent "rock skis"?

Wow, a two-fer of overexaggeration. Congrats!

Mountain bikers don't really cause more damage than anyone else (hikers cut corners, some people purposely vandalize trails and landmarks, horses sh*t everywhere and leave huge craters in the mud, etc. etc.) And they're not confined to "mtn bike trails and parks" at all. They're not allowed on some trails, but many of the trails where they are allowed are just hiking trails that are now open to bikes. Timing is really the only reason that bikes are less accepted than other styles of trail use (i.e. Hiking and horseback riding were around when the trails were being built; mountain bikes had to work toward acceptance hundreds of years later). I'd say horses are more intrusive and would probably be every bit as marginalized as mountain bikes if they weren't such a standard means of transportation during the time when parks were being created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT 

Wow, a two-fer of overexaggeration. Congrats!

 

Mountain bikers don't really cause more damage than anyone else (hikers cut corners, some people purposely vandalize trails and landmarks, horses sh*t everywhere and leave huge craters in the mud, etc. etc.)

Read before you post?

Who said mountain biker cause "MORE" demange than any other users? No! It cause AS MUCH demage!!!

So, unless ALL the mountain bikers are former hiker who gave up hiking in exchange for biking, they're causing MORE demage by virtue of being out there MORE!

For each new form of "transport" that is "fun" and getting POPULAR, there will be more people doing it. That alone, causes more demage due to more usage. It's got nothing to do with how they compare with horses, unless you're comparing the number of horse riders vs. mtn bikers!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirquerider 

When I think of scree, I imagine something a lot rockier than that sandy slope those guys were playing on.  Somehow I doubt this will vastly improve the popularity of rapidly descending steep slopes with poles,  I used to do this many years ago; no risk that I'll resume that activity.

 

There are some interesting variations:

 

Rock Skiing

 

 

C'MON.... 25 posts in and nobody has commented about only one guy using a helmet???? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by at_nyc 

Read before you post?

Who said mountain biker cause "MORE" demange than any other users? No! It cause AS MUCH demage!!!

 

So, unless ALL the mountain bikers are former hiker who gave up hiking in exchange for biking, they're causing MORE demage by virtue of being out there MORE!

 

For each new form of "transport" that is "fun" and getting POPULAR, there will be more people doing it. That alone, causes more demage due to more usage. It's got nothing to do with how they compare with horses, unless you're comparing the number of horse riders vs. mtn bikers!!!

That makes sense! So we should definitely cap the number of people using trails, and limit said use to only those activities that already exist.

Say it any way you want, it's as out of touch as the old guy and his cane.

Also, I think you can rest easy in the knowledge that rock skiing won't be the reason behind hordes of people hitting the mountains. Not exactly an addicting sport built for the masses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT 

That makes sense! So we should definitely cap the number of people using trails, and limit said use to only those activities that already exist.

 Like downhill skiing as in "existing" activity?

Besides, who said anything about limiting its number? You and your buddy ("Really...") didn't think there's ANY environmental impact AT ALL because there're so few people doing it.

The environmental impact can be HUGE, IF it becomes popular, like moutain biking, which I'm sure people didn't think it would EVER became popular back 20 years ago!

Did you even read before you post?

I still don't get this... who give a sh***t about environmental impact of things like mountain biking, horse riding or even rock skiing? Maybe all these so environmental friendly people, who worry so much about environmental impact of previously mentioned things, should rather look at their 8 liter SUV cars spending 20l of gas/100km, used to transport one single person, or AC making their fancy looking offices nice and cold, or gas and environment damage made by transporting pineapple so you can have it in middle of winter.

You should really get some perspective on this...

So yes, even if rock skiing becomes huge, there's still very little to worry considering all other crap we do.