EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Making a Paper Binding Template/Jig 4 Cheapskates
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Making a Paper Binding Template/Jig 4 Cheapskates

post #1 of 29
8/4/12 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 

I've mounted quite a few of my own bindings over the years, never used a jig.  I used to just line up the boot center on desired ski position with the toe pieces snug, mark it.  Mount the toes.  I used squeeze clamps to hold them snug over the correct position, helps when they come with removable plates/risers that match the hole pattern.    Then, line up the heel and mark the heels, mount then adjust forward pressure.  I'm getting older and my eyesight and grip and work ethic is slipping so I have decided to make a paper template for the Salomon 800-900 series bindings I use most often.   Have a pair of new skis on the way.

 

Take a ski that has a good mount for the same kind of bindings you will install on your new skis, remove the bindings, and center a pre cut heavy piece of paper lengthwise over the hole pattern.  I used a file folder for paper.

 

700

 

Mark the center long ways and tape it on the ski centered over the holes.

700

 

Find your "good holes".

700

 

Put the binding back on over the paper.  Put your boot in.

700

 

Mark the mid sole point for you boot.

700

 

Use a t-square to draw the mid-sole line on your template

700

 

Almost there.

700

 

Punch a couple of holes over your mid-sole line so you can see the mid sole +- lines on the new ski when lining up the template.

700

 

Try not to drill all the way through your new ski when using this.  I make a small wooden block to cover most of the drill bit as a stop to prevent going too deep

 

Mounting bindings, what glue to use, etc is a different topic pretty well covered in these forums.

 

When you get the bindings on your new skis, take them to a shop and have then properly adjusted for DIN and forward pressure.  Shops won't touch some older bindings though.

 

Or, just pay someone to do it that knows what they are doing!

Reply
post #2 of 29
8/4/12 at 8:29am
Nice, but:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/153971-Binding-Mount-Paper-Templates
Reply
post #3 of 29
8/4/12 at 8:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Nice, but:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/153971-Binding-Mount-Paper-Templates


I saw that, but decided to make one that exactly matches my boots.  Just line up my desired mount point and SHAZAMMMM!

Reply
post #4 of 29
8/4/12 at 8:57am

The last time I mounted my own bindings I used the TGR set, but I had to make some modifications as discribed in the TGR thread -- not my own invention -- so make sure you read any discussion that goes with the template you use.  And check the scale-factor accuracy of your printer. 

 

Luckily I had access to a machine shop.  Using a drill press with a depth stop to guarantee a correct hole is so much easier.

Reply
post #5 of 29
8/4/12 at 9:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post


Luckily I had access to a machine shop.  Using a drill press with a depth stop to guarantee a correct hole is so much easier.

Sure does.  I worked in a decent sized custom cabinet and furniture studio shop for about 4 years when I was younger.  Still know some folks with killer shop set ups.  But not necessary at all.  I made this.  Terry at SlideWright.com also sells bits with stops molded right in the steel of the bit.

 

700

 

I can adjust it as needed for exact depth.wink.gif

Reply
post #6 of 29
8/4/12 at 11:08am

For me staying square (drilling freehand) is as much a challenge as getting the right depth.

I just don't do it often enough to get good at it.  I used to do the masking-tape-on-the-bit trick, but that is just an indicator, not a stop.

 

I bought the correct-size shoulder bits and taps from Slidewright, and I keep them in my desk drawer separate from my other tools. 

 

Let me warn you -- when your kids get old enough to start using your tools, they start to magically disappear and you never have the right tool.  For years I never had a hammer; now that my son went off to college I have four of them, only two of which I recognize. 

Reply
post #7 of 29
8/4/12 at 11:21am

I got a used drill press very cheap at a garage sale/craigslist.  Best score ever for DIY mounting.  

Reply
post #8 of 29
8/4/12 at 11:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Let me warn you -- when your kids get old enough to start using your tools, they start to magically disappear and you never have the right tool.  For years I never had a hammer; now that my son went off to college I have four of them, only two of which I recognize. 

Yes, that day has arrived, hence the reluctance to buy shoulder bits from Terry and just use a block, made out of a drum stick.  I got my 9 year old some tools to fill up the wooden tool box we made in cub scouts.  Nevertheless, tools are disappearing out of my drawers every other day or so. 

 

I did a lot of service calls working for the furniture studio.  We'd often encounter situations hours away from the shop to discover the proper tool needed was nowhere to be found in the van.  MacGyver would have been proud of many of the solutions we fabricated rather than going to a hardware store to use our own pocket money and purchase the correct tool.  Not a good idea to tell the boss either we did not bring the correct tools, or something supposed to be there was missing.. until we looked in the other truck and around the shop to be sure it wasn't just misplaced.

 

Anyway, I would recommend the above method when moving bindings from an old ski to a new ski... or like me, you use several of the same binding over and over.  I really think the heavy paper will be better than dealing with flimsy printer paper and potential print scale errors.  If I end up with a new binding I don't already have mounted on something handy I'd certainly try the TGR templates.

Reply
post #9 of 29
8/11/12 at 5:52pm

I've mounted four or five pair now...I use a digital micrometer, double sided sticky tape, a dry erase marker, and the base plate for the binding, and then a inexpensive drill press (depth gauge / stop is priceless) I picked up at Harbor Freight. I think in making a paper template you'd lose something in the translation.

 

They've always been perfect.

Reply
post #10 of 29
8/13/12 at 4:59pm

In the days before metal templates, all you got in the binding box were paper templates.

It's always good to measure your holes before you drill them. :)

Reply
post #11 of 29
8/13/12 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post

In the days before metal templates, all you got in the binding box were paper templates.

It's always good to measure your holes before you drill them. :)

Yep, and mounting instructions in the box!  (Althouh they may have been written in French or German.)

Ok, I'll stop now before my inner grumpy old man gets loose.

Reply
post #12 of 29
8/14/12 at 11:10pm

On my latest pair of skis, I installed the Vist bindings with a plate.  They came with a paper template.  Next time, I'm going to get a piece of hardwood, maybe a 3/4 inch oak or bamboo floor, and make a solid template out of it.

For one, it will be indestructible, for two, even though I have a drill press, the jig will make tapping a lot easier.

 

And yes, I did have them DIN-tested.

 

Lastly, the drilling depth is crucial.  Aside from the obvious drilling through the base, drilling too shallow a hole, will dimple the bases.  So will pouring too much glue into the holes, if it can't escape.

For this reason, Vist instructions call for glue-less mounting.  I have deviated from the manual, by moistening the holes with glue, and completely wiping it off with q-tips.

Reply
post #13 of 29
8/15/12 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by incognito View Post

On my latest pair of skis, I installed the Vist bindings with a plate.  They came with a paper template.  Next time, I'm going to get a piece of hardwood, maybe a 3/4 inch oak or bamboo floor, and make a solid template out of it.

For one, it will be indestructible, for two, even though I have a drill press, the jig will make tapping a lot easier.

 

And yes, I did have them DIN-tested.

 

Lastly, the drilling depth is crucial.  Aside from the obvious drilling through the base, drilling too shallow a hole, will dimple the bases.  So will pouring too much glue into the holes, if it can't escape.

For this reason, Vist instructions call for glue-less mounting.  I have deviated from the manual, by moistening the holes with glue, and completely wiping it off with q-tips.

Instead of making a solid template with hardwood, I make the template with eighth of an inch perspex.

Reply
post #14 of 29
8/15/12 at 8:16pm
Plexiglas makes a great template. It is easy to transfer hole placement reasonably accurately as you can see the old holes and the boot center clearly to copy. When drilling it is easy to visually place and center the holes. Paper is more likely to slip on the ski, harder to align and may show a false hole center if the old holes have jagged edges.
Eric
Reply
post #15 of 29
8/15/12 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

Plexiglas makes a great template. It is easy to transfer hole placement reasonably accurately as you can see the old holes and the boot center clearly to copy. When drilling it is easy to visually place and center the holes. Paper is more likely to slip on the ski, harder to align and may show a false hole center if the old holes have jagged edges.
Eric

Are you using a jig for tapping or going freehand?  I'm hoping to kill two birds.

Reply
post #16 of 29
8/16/12 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

Plexiglas makes a great template. It is easy to transfer hole placement reasonably accurately as you can see the old holes and the boot center clearly to copy. When drilling it is easy to visually place and center the holes. Paper is more likely to slip on the ski, harder to align and may show a false hole center if the old holes have jagged edges.
Eric

You can easily make a jig on some kind of acrylic/plexiglass using a laser cutter based on a paper template, assuming the paper is sized perfectly.  A decent laser cutter is more precise than eyeballing and will cut perfect holes in thicker material for a jig. 

 

I thought about making my own jig only because of the "Quiver Killer" threaded inserts I read about a while ago.  So far I'm waiting for some threads to see if the Quiver Killer idea is working out well for others. If it is, I may just go with one binding (different brakes) for all my skis in the future.   Until then there are only a couple of ski shops I trust, and I still go to them even though I do own a drill press.

Reply
post #17 of 29
8/16/12 at 4:39pm

I've mounted a few bindings and adjusted toe pressure as needed. Seems to me there is a real opportunity here for a binding manufacturer to provide all the information necessary to mount and fit bindings on a DIY basis. Are they afraid that ski shops will stop doing business with them? For goodness sake my teenager can buy parts on the internet to make a darn good computer from scratch but mounting bindings on a plank is traeated like some type of secret fraternity handhsake.

Reply
post #18 of 29
8/16/12 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

For goodness sake my teenager can buy parts on the internet to make a darn good computer from scratch but mounting bindings on a plank is traeated like some type of secret fraternity handhsake.
Is that because no one has sued a computer parts company because they fractured their leg on a home-assembled computer?
Reply
post #19 of 29
8/16/12 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post


Is that because no one has sued a computer parts company because they fractured their leg on a home-assembled computer?


What if a home build burned burned someone's house down?

 

Problem is that skiing is still something that typical jury's don't do well with.  And, skiers tend to be able to afford good lawyers.  Liability is still a big concern for binding companies. 

Reply
post #20 of 29
8/16/12 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 Liability is still a big concern for binding companies. 

Considering 90% (or more) of ski companies are Europe based, and overhere we don't have "go out and sue everyone you can for every stupid thing you can" culture (just yet), I don't think this is main reason ;) I would still agree with Steveturnere... it's business deal with their dealers/sellers/service centers, so that everyone can have piece of this business, and we are happy to pay for it.

Few years back, every single binding came with paper jig (alpine or nordic), nowadays they expect you to bring bindings to service to get them mounted and DIN set... like it would be some rocket science screwing 8-10 screws ;)

Reply
post #21 of 29
8/17/12 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

Considering 90% (or more) of ski companies are Europe based, and overhere we don't have "go out and sue everyone you can for every stupid thing you can" culture (just yet), I don't think this is main reason
It's possible that most ski companies are European, I'm pretty sure that the proportion of skiers that are in the US is much, much higher and - right or wrong - that's what generates the well-deserved fear of lawsuits.

FWIW, I mount all my own bindings, and a lot of my friends' as well, and it's a bit more complicated than screwing in 8-10 screws.
Edited by Bob Lee - 8/17/12 at 6:44am
Reply
post #22 of 29
8/19/12 at 7:58pm
I do not know if it a liability issue or a business model. All I know is the binding makers do not do anything to make it easier for us to find the right spot to place those 8-10 screws and that is a customer service issue. My guess is they view the ski shop as their customer, but i may be wrong. And I agree mounting a binding is not the most basic level of carpentry.
Reply
post #23 of 29
8/20/12 at 1:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post
FWIW, I mount all my own bindings, and a lot of my friends' as well, and it's a bit more complicated than screwing in 8-10 screws.

Ok I agree I might not be relevant in this case (after mounting probably more then few 1000 bindings in those years when I was in WC business, things are pretty damn simple ;)), but nevertheless, I think that anyone, who is handy enough to be able to drill few holes and screw in few screws, won't have problems mounting bindings, even without real jig.

Reply
post #24 of 29
8/20/12 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

Ok I agree I might not be relevant in this case (after mounting probably more then few 1000 bindings in those years when I was in WC business, things are pretty damn simple ;)), but nevertheless, I think that anyone, who is handy enough to be able to drill few holes and screw in few screws, won't have problems mounting bindings, even without real jig.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible or even super difficult (or a klutz like me wouldn't be able to do it), just that it's a little more than "screwing 8-10 screws" as you wrote.  I mean, if you were to write down the directions of how to do it for a never-ever, it would take up some space, wouldn't it?  Measuring, centering, drilling, etc. all take some focus, time and consideration, especially if you don't have a manufacturer's jig and (the proper size) binding bit and other tools on hand.  Amiright?  But yeah, a fairly handy person could do it, with some good direction.  

 

And FWIW, if we're going to get in a dick-measuring contest about binding mounting experience, I should probably mention that I was a ski tech in a shop for a number of years.  

Reply
post #25 of 29
8/20/12 at 10:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

 

 

Mounting bindings, what glue to use, etc is a different topic pretty well covered in these forums.

 

hijack.gif

 

Let's please chill on the degree of difficulty discussions.  I just wanted to show folks a simple way to get started that didn't require anything special other than a sharpie pen, ruler,  drill, and a couple bits.

Reply
post #26 of 29
8/21/12 at 12:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

hijack.gif

 

Let's please chill on the degree of difficulty discussions.  I just wanted to show folks a simple way to get started that didn't require anything special other than a sharpie pen, ruler,  drill, and a couple bits.

+1

Today's skis are much different than they used to be.  Much thinner, and composed of many layers of different materials, leaves very little room for error.  In my case, there was less than 1mm of tolerance for exact dept.  It's a good thing very few people are brave enough to DIY it.

Reply
post #27 of 29
8/21/12 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by incognito View Post

+1

Today's skis are much different than they used to be.  Much thinner, and composed of many layers of different materials, leaves very little room for error.  In my case, there was less than 1mm of tolerance for exact dept.  It's a good thing very few people are brave enough to DIY it.

Many years ago I was able to drill freehand with a level of precisions, control, and steadyness that I could actually go slowly enough to actually see the first bit of P-tex dust and pull back and stop as the bit touched it.  But then, I used power tools all day long professionally for several years.  Having metal under the core makes that a lot more difficult!  These days I use the block on the bit and some washers to adjust exact depth if needed.  The heel pieces were over a much thinner part of the ski than the toe pieces were for the 777s. 

Reply
post #28 of 29
2/14/13 at 7:17am

I rcently got a set of Salomon 900S bindings with DIN 4-10 spring, but I need a mounting template since no shop will mount them to my new S3 skis.

 

Maybe

50x50px-LS-1985+NM+Air-Butterfly.jpg   Could help me out by emailing me a JPG of the template he made for this binding.  If the binding is set on a table top with a 12" ruler next to it while the picture is taken, I can print it out exactly to full size and use it.
 
Thanks for the prompt help.  My email is:  yachtsman1944@yahoo.,com
Reply
post #29 of 29
2/14/13 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yachter View Post

I rcently got a set of Salomon 900S bindings with DIN 4-10 spring, but I need a mounting template since no shop will mount them to my new S3 skis.

 

Maybe

50x50px-LS-1985+NM+Air-Butterfly.jpg   Could help me out by emailing me a JPG of the template he made for this binding.  If the binding is set on a table top with a 12" ruler next to it while the picture is taken, I can print it out exactly to full size and use it.
 
Thanks for the prompt help.  My email is:  yachtsman1944@yahoo.,com


My template is specific to my boot size.  The point of the thread is to make your own from existing skis to move the bindings to new skis.

 

There are generic binding templates posted on a different forum here

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/153971-Binding-Mount-Paper-Templates

 

Alpine Bindings
salomon_paper_template_R6.pdf

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Making a Paper Binding Template/Jig 4 Cheapskates