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Twin tip that are not twin tips?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Hi guys

 

I have a philosophical doubt. There are some "all mountain twins", or at least you read a lot that they are, like the atomic theory or volkl kendo. But when you look at them they dont look all that twin tippy at all. In atomic site the theory is in the twin tip section, while the kendo isnt in the volkl site (maybe only the symmetrical ones are in the twin tip section?).

 

Basically, I dont mind the naming question, but I do would like to know from the connaisseurs out there: are those skis supposed to handle skiing switch and a bit of park, or not at all?

 

cheers

post #2 of 13

There are basically two types of twins...Symmetric Twins and Directional Twins. Symmetric ones are just that, the tip and tail dimension is identical and ideally are mounted center for skiing switch as much as you are skiing forward. The other is a directional town, basically a traditional ski with a turned up tail, while these are OK for skiing switch, it is not their intention. It comes town to twins are cool ;) (Twins, Basil...twins..) in a SUV sort of way, there are many vehicles that are billed as SUVs that are gussied up wagons. 

post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hi
 
 
I see, thanks for the explanation.
 
Given the fact that the Kendo is a very popular ski, I assume people that have them dont care a lot about the park or skiing switch.
 
The origin of my question is basically because I observed that a good amount of skis in the all mountain category have flat tails, so I assume this must be a good characteristic for a ski that is expected to tackle some soft snow or crud.
 
So for example, in the atomic front, one could be in doubt between the theory and the savage (similar waist width), and the point of decision between them would be basically the flex (no metal in theory, ti in the savage), and not because one has flat tail and the other some sort of low pronounced twin-tipness.
 
So I was just wondering that... It must be the summer, and the realization that my new skis wont see snow for the next 5 months
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCookie View Post

Hi
 
 
I see, thanks for the explanation.
 
Given the fact that the Kendo is a very popular ski, I assume people that have them dont care a lot about the park or skiing switch.
 
The origin of my question is basically because I observed that a good amount of skis in the all mountain category have flat tails, so I assume this must be a good characteristic for a ski that is expected to tackle some soft snow or crud.
 
So for example, in the atomic front, one could be in doubt between the theory and the savage (similar waist width), and the point of decision between them would be basically the flex (no metal in theory, ti in the savage), and not because one has flat tail and the other some sort of low pronounced twin-tipness.
 
So I was just wondering that... It must be the summer, and the realization that my new skis wont see snow for the next 5 months

The Kendo is far from a "twin tip", it barely has a turned up tail. 

post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 

I see, but sometimes it is referenced as a twin tip. Bad internet, bad...

 

To be fair, the theory tail also doesnt look that high, in this pic:

http://www.thesnowway.com/2012/03/13/atomic-theory-review

 

at least compared to the armadas I have seen

post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCookie View Post

I see, but sometimes it is referenced as a twin tip. Bad internet, bad...

 

To be fair, the theory tail also doesnt look that high, in this pic:

http://www.thesnowway.com/2012/03/13/atomic-theory-review

 

at least compared to the armadas I have seen

 

The Theory has a pretty good sized turned up tail, the Kendo (here is a worse picture), while the tail is rounded, it is hardly a twin tip.

 

700

post #7 of 13

Yeah, I just watched a video of myself on Kendos, they don't look any more twin tippy than the Hart Pulses I had (although both have rounded tails, maybe that's considered enough for some).  I can't remember what indie manufacturer it was, but they have skis they advertise as having a 1/4 or 1/2 twin tip, basically just enough to keep you out of trouble if you want to land switch.

 

I have a pair of Head Infernos I am looking forward to for next year; they are advertised as twin tips, but I know they are not symmetrical, we shall see how 'twin' they went...

 

Not that you need a twin tip to wave at the honeys while carving huge trenches switch at mach 5:

 

http://unofficialnetworks.com/jon-olsson-beats-top-worldcup-racer-finish-racing-cool-93531/

 

I tried to embed it, but it gave me some sort of error, sorry.

post #8 of 13

I would divide twin tips into more categories than simply symmetric or traditional.  That has more to do with sidecut I think.  There's plenty of park worthy twin tips that have a traditional sidecut, and many of which, the twin tip tail isn't as tall as the tip, but not as short as say those Kendos either. 

 

Looking at my wall, I have Hart Barhoppers, (the only one I actually know the rise demensions) but they rise I believe 37mm in the tail, and 52mm in the tip, and they ride wonderfully switch, but also 102mm underfoot and decent all mountain/powder skis. 

 

My Kneissl Fly Stars I think were 45mm tail rise and maybe 54mm tip rise?  Closer but still not the same, and these are capable of doing anything I ask them to in the park. 

 

My newer Dynastar 6th Sense Distorters are similar to the Kneissl, but both shorter tip and tail, but not symmetrical.

 

I think the twin tip on things like Kendos or Theorys are more for forgiveness turning than riding backwards.  But a taller twin tip rides backwards just fine weather it has a normal sidecut or not.

post #9 of 13

Cool video! FairToMiddlin haha.

I agree there are now more categories to Twins than simply "twin or not twin".
Directional twins are usually not as turned up in the tail and have not only a sidecut, but also a flex pattern which is more suited to forward skiing, they also usually have a suggested mounting point which is more traditional (ie. not center mounted).
 

I think part of the reason many "all-mountain" skis are now getting some kind of turned up tail and named as "twin tips" is because of the coolness factor. Some people just think twins are cooler or that they need gear to ride "powder" even though they don't 99.5% of the time. Also consider that there is the whole new category of skis that are now "freeride". Most of them are wider waist and twins, they are designed for some switch skiing and easy tail release for powder, trees and back country etc, and while most a pretty good in the park too, they are not traditional park skis.

 

Also consider - as that video shows very well - a lot of what a ski can do comes down to the skills of the rider and the conditions. Good skiers can still carve and mach a race course on a pair of twins, while they can also probably do some pretty cool jumps in the park and land switch on a front side or all mountain ski. So while skis are designed for a general style of riding, good skiers can adapt and pull things off in a variety of conditions.

 

So when buying, get something that suits your intended use, conditions you encounter most often and your style of skiing.
I'd say now you can consider twins in at least 4 basic categories:

 - no twin = front side carver and all mountain forward directional skis (although the Kendo has a slightly up-turned and rounded tail, I'd still put that one here - it's not really made for switch skiing) e.g. front side carvers or traditional all mountain skis like Atomic Nomad, Volkl AC or RTM series, Elan wave series, Fischer Motive etc
   - directional twins = moderately turned up tail, while it might handle a couple turns backwards, it's not made for it e.g. maybe Line prophets (pre 2013), Liberty Helix,
 - Freeride twins = closer to a full twin, can handle all mountain and some park, and more adept at skiing and landing switch - can be mounted either center or traditional e.g. Rossi S7, S3, K2 Kung Fujas, Line Bacons, Salomon Rocker, Atomic Theory, Volkl Bridge (this category is growing rapidly)

 - Full twin or True twins = made for park and pipe, may or may not be symmetrical (i.e. same sidecut forward or back if center mounted). e.g. Salomon Suspect, Atomic Punx, Volkl Ledge, Line Afterbang and the plethora of jib skis etc

 

From what the OP mentions - Atomic Theory is definitely more of a twin tip than Volkl Kendo. In my list above, Theory would be in the "all-mountain freeride twin category" while Kendo would be "all mountain directional or non-twin".   
 

post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 

Nice explanations (and video) :)

 

I have no immediate plans on buying a twin tip, but lets se next season if I can spend a little educational time in the park and maybe I will convince myself of the need

post #11 of 13

bump for those considering whether they need twin tips

post #12 of 13

^^^^ Useless bump unless some context provided. Twins for: Park, or all mountain, or bumps, or making chairs, or...?

post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

^^^^ Useless bump unless some context provided. Twins for: Park, or all mountain, or bumps, or making chairs, or...?

I think the OP got what he wanted.  The bump is for new members or lurkers who may learn something from the thread.  Feel free to ignore.

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