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2003/04 Volkl constructions

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Earlier this week I had beers with the Volkl rep for our territory. We spoke about some of the new constructions they've made for this season. I found the following interesting.

The Supersport 6 Star is a full sensor wood core ski with SEVEN layers of fiberglass, 1 top layer of kevlar and carbon fiber running longitudinally and 1 bottom layer of spring steel. You can see the kevlar and carbon fiber through the "Volkl" graphic on the top of the ski.

The 7 24 Pro is a really interesting blend of some old technology. He describes it to me in something like tthis equation 7 24 Pro = Vertigo G30/31 core and internal structure + Vertigo G3/7 24 AX3 sidecut + EnergY construction + extra width. So, the 7 24 Pro has the sensorwood core, 2 titanium laminates, etc of the G30/31, the tighter radius sidecut of the G3/AX3, add about 7 mm of width and put the Energy cap on it with a very small sidewall. Really neat construction.

Anyway, the AX3 is unchanged from the G3 and the P60 SC Racing is more similar in construction (not sidecut) to the 6 Star than not. Internal laminates and core are composed of the same number and type of layers. The thickness, orientation and composition of those layers is quite different combining with the more radical sidecut to make the P60 significantly less versatile.

Anyway, I'm picking up the 6 Star in a 168 with Piston Motion 1400 and a 7 24 Pro in 177 with the same binding. I guess I've decided to trust Marker. I'll let you know how it goes.

Aar

Oh, yeah. We discussed mounting up his demo P60 SC Race Stocks and rippin' a few. I'm not holding my breath but really looking forward to it if it happens.
post #2 of 14
See I knew the 6 Star had less metal than last years 4 and 5 Star.

Even thoguh I am not buying new skis this year I would like to demo the 6 Stars.
post #3 of 14
AarHead,

I got the following from volkl a few weeks ago.
Note, they state there is no metal in the 724 Pro.
I sure wish all the Volkl reps. knew how their skis
are built. I makes it confusing for us customers.

--------------------------------------------------------------
The Vertigo G3 and AX3 share the same wood cell core. The wood cell core is four independent wood pieces running lengthwise. There is a small column of PU foam between each piece of wood. The whole thing is wrapped in fiberglass.

The Vertigo G3 and AX3 are 99.9% the same. The only difference is that we put slightly more glass (but no less metal )in the AX3.

I can assume that the person who told you that there was reduced metal was confusing it with the 724 Pro - a new model that has no metal at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by AarHead:
Earlier this week I had beers with the Volkl rep for our territory. We spoke about some of the new constructions they've made for this season. I found the following interesting.

The Supersport 6 Star is a full sensor wood core ski with SEVEN layers of fiberglass, 1 top layer of kevlar and carbon fiber running longitudinally and 1 bottom layer of spring steel. You can see the kevlar and carbon fiber through the "Volkl" graphic on the top of the ski.

The 7 24 Pro is a really interesting blend of some old technology. He describes it to me in something like tthis equation 7 24 Pro = Vertigo G30/31 core and internal structure + Vertigo G3/7 24 AX3 sidecut + EnergY construction + extra width. So, the 7 24 Pro has the sensorwood core, 2 titanium laminates, etc of the G30/31, the tighter radius sidecut of the G3/AX3, add about 7 mm of width and put the Energy cap on it with a very small sidewall. Really neat construction.

Anyway, the AX3 is unchanged from the G3 and the P60 SC Racing is more similar in construction (not sidecut) to the 6 Star than not. Internal laminates and core are composed of the same number and type of layers. The thickness, orientation and composition of those layers is quite different combining with the more radical sidecut to make the P60 significantly less versatile.

Anyway, I'm picking up the 6 Star in a 168 with Piston Motion 1400 and a 7 24 Pro in 177 with the same binding. I guess I've decided to trust Marker. I'll let you know how it goes.

Aar

Oh, yeah. We discussed mounting up his demo P60 SC Race Stocks and rippin' a few. I'm not holding my breath but really looking forward to it if it happens.
post #4 of 14
I'm surprised you didnt mentiont he changes in construction of the P60 GS board (this is the non race stock version im referring to). This ski has construction similar to that of the older Fischer boards that had the accelerator plate built into the topskin. The rails that the Piston plate is on are lengthened and integrated into the top of the ski. Again this is mostly a cap ski, and it still have those titanium rails that decrease torsional flex... and only one sheet of metal, but the plate looks very interesting. I would expect the ski to be very very damp due to its construction, and nature of the plate. Volkl is finally selling their race stock boards to the general public this year, which will show a lot of people that volkl's race boards are built nothing like the rest of their line.
Later
GREG
post #5 of 14
The P60 seems to have avery similar construction to the 6-star. The motion rails look alike anyway, as does the shape of the monocoque.
post #6 of 14
I'd like to know why Volkl found it necessary to change the construction of their skis to begin with. The G30 and 31 were well made do everything bombproof skis. The P30 RC's of five or six years ago were some of the finest skis I've ever been on. After I sold the P30's, I bought a pair of the new Vertigo Motions, and they were the biggest pieces of crap I've ever owned. The difference in quality from their models of years gone by is obvious. I got the Motions because I demoed the G3 and could not keep it from chattering on serious hard snow no matter what I did. The Motion seemed to be a little better in that regard, so being a solid Volkl person I bought a pair, but they lasted six days (actually they lasted five days in soft Colorado powder, but one run down Big Dipper at Killington did them in). It seems to me that Volkl is still searching to find itself again, they are constantly changing their construction from year to year now, apparently in hope of getting it right again. I know from talking to shop guys that Volkl has had to eat a ton of skis in the last couple of years for similar reasons. Maybe they should go back to the way of making skis that set them apart from their competitors instead of taking the mass production route that most other companies follow would be a good place to start.
post #7 of 14
It's a fine line to walk between being a hand made cult type ski that volkl was in the 70's and 80's, to being the ski with the largest market share, as they are now. The things they used to do that made them so desirable back when the explosiv and renntiger were out aren't feasible now that so many people want volkls.
Ironically, the beginning of the end was the P9.... so far ahead of its time it was unreal. That is when volkl started to really get popular.
Today, Stockli is what volkl was in the mid 80's.

I agree that volkl is different now, and they have their problems, but from their low end skis up to the world cup level, I believe that they have the most complete line of skis that perform very well.
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by blstocker:
I got the following from volkl a few weeks ago.
Note, they state there is no metal in the 724 Pro.
I sure wish all the Volkl reps. knew how their skis
are built. I makes it confusing for us customers.
[/QB]
From where / whom in Volkl did you get that information? After I demoed the 7 24 Pro last season you will have an extremely hard time convincing me it does not have a significant amount of metal in it. I've found that it has two layers of Titanal from other printed sources as well. Those sources are 9 months old and they only confirmed what I already knew so I didn't make note of them. This is the only place I've heard the 7 24 Pro doesn't have metal in the construction so I tend to discredit it.

Aar
post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by U.P. Racer:
Ironically, the beginning of the end was the P9.... so far ahead of its time it was unreal. That is when volkl started to really get popular.
Today, Stockli is what volkl was in the mid 80's.

I agree that volkl is different now, and they have their problems, but from their low end skis up to the world cup level, I believe that they have the most complete line of skis that perform very well.
Ditto. I find that Volkl is one of the few lines in which all skis have a similar feel and respond to the same type of input. I can go from an EnergY 320 to a 7 24 Pro to a P60 SC Racing and the sweet spot of the ski is in the same place, the edge grip has the same firm, hard feel to it, etc. When going from line to line (or model to model) within other brands you frequenetly need to adjust to a new sweet spot and feel from the ski. Mind you I'm no where near silly enough to try to tell you an EnergY 320 is appropriate for the same purcposes as the other three nor vice versa. I'm just trying to say Volkl has a commonality of design and skiability from top to bottom that is rare these days. I don't know if it there in the V-series skis but I'd wager it is.

Not only do I find Volkls to have that commonality of design but I also find that across the board a Volkls of a certain category is in the top 3-5 skis for the category. While that is not their dominant position in some categories of years past it is remarkable.

For what it's worth, in addition to Stockli have you had the opportunity to ski any Nordica Doberman race skis? IMHO - pretty darn hot! I'm looking forward to the day they can design ones that good for the all mountain and "Supersport"/"Crossmax"/"Skicross" categories.

Aar
post #10 of 14
Ahhh, in fact I have! VERY solid ski. Unreal edgegrip and great rebound, as long as you are going pretty fast. They do require some speed to come alive, but Nordica may have the best GS ski out right now.
post #11 of 14
Those Nordicas are the only thing that cost more than Stocklis too!
post #12 of 14
My team mate is on the stock Nodica GS this year. The ski is a beastly machine... It looks stiff and is very heavy. It has a solid flex to it as well. At 155lbs i wouldnt want to ride a pair unless i was in a FAST course. He has about 40 or 50 lbs on me so he should be fine on them... now alls he has to do is catch me, which i fear he may on those skis.
Later
GREG
post #13 of 14
epic, I don't have access to any special prices in any brand. After demo of 724 Pro last spring, I bought the Stockli XL. It is way less expensive than the Volkl! I think Stocklis are cheaper across the line. This does not take into consideration those of you who get those special deals (eg proform) on the larger brands. Eg Helivaskier said he is getting the Elan over the Stockli because he can get a deal.
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NCskier:
After demo of 724 Pro last spring, I bought the Stockli XL. It is way less expensive than the Volkl! I think Stocklis are cheaper across the line.
Since the 7 24 Pro typically comes with a Motion integrated binding I've got to ask whether you are comparing apples to apples or not. Was the Stockli XL with a comparable binding less expensive than the Pro with Motion or was the Stockli ski only less expensive than the Pro (yellow and black version) ski only? Did you pick up the Stockli model from last season?

I'm not defending or attacking anything. I just think you got a really great deal on a Stockli if you picked up this season's Stormrider XL with top-of-the-line binding for significantly (say $50.00) less than a 724 Pro Motion.

Enjoy the ride!

Aar
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